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Virmire Survivor - Whats with the attitude?


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#251
Labrev

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Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I just wanna bump this quote by DNI because I think it's very poignant.

DoNotIngest wrote...

Surely it was wiser for Ashdan (The entity formerly known as Ashley or Kaidan, which, as Cheez stated, has been fused into one) to remain in their Reaper-owning Alliance positions and keep their hands clean of that devil Shepard, who'd never trust them! Yes, preventing the abduction of billions of humans and the creation of another Reaper is far below patrol duty on Generic Alliance Vessel #4431.


Even as a Spectre, Ashdan was never a leader. One half of it had it's entire squad killed and is afraid & distrustful of other races, the other is a recluse. The fusion has left it a bitter, veangeful hermit.



Alright, I was giggling to no end for that last sentence. Obviously not serious there. But the VS could only match Shepard's status, and they don't use it to break him out, once he's free he's a Spectre again, so what was the point? Besides, anything Shepard has is enhance by his previous deeds, whereas Kaidan Alenko and Ashley Williams aren't exactly legendary.


LOL @ this.


First off, why is VS on Horizon in the first place? To investigate colony abductions. What happens when the culprit is found to be the Collectors. Alliance starts to evacuate residents of these colonies. The only reason Shepard is doing more is because TIM is actively on top of it and sending Shepard to Horizon/Collector Vessel/Derelict Reaper like the sheep that he is!!!

On that note, the VS was absolutely correct about what they said. TIM used the Reaper threat to manipulate you, sending you once into a trap and another time into a colony he set to get hit. Were they necessary? Yes. Did TIM, by nature, manipulate you? Yes. He acted like he just happened to find those things, he did not tell you he was behind both of them. Again, manipulation.

I see you're back to the name-calling game: Kaidan is just some recluse and Ashley "got" her squad killed. Cute. Please revisit my post, top of page 6 (while you're at it, check bottom-of-page-5), if you want to see how silly that game is.

Reality: Ashley survived a surprise attack from the geth, and has legitimate reservations of trust to those that have not appeared to earn it (but puts those differences aside more than once). So essentially, no difference there between her and renegade Shepard, or Sole Survivor background.

As far as we know, that unti was not under her command. If they were, she now has "Ruthless" on top of her SS on her resume. Impressive, two different backgrounds that earn Shepard candidacy for the Spectres in one.

Kaidan, to date, has never lost a solider under his command and is said to have an impressive service record (per Chakwas, I believe). So now we're looking at a potential War Hero background to complete the set. Compare that to Shepard, who stupidly sends Jenkins blind into a geth ambush on Eden Prime. But I suppose since he's "the Shepard" the VS is obliged to worship the ground he walks on.

And no, Shepard is not undisputable because of what he's accomplished. That idea will get you nowhere. You can't prove yourself once and expect to always be respected. You need to continue to prove yourself if you want people to continue to follow you as a leader, otherwise they'll be quick to dump you for someone they like better. Dumped the way Zaeed got dumped by his own men for Vido.


Nothing to see here, move along.



I'm dying to get a response from DNI now loooool. Where'd that foo' go? Tired of getting his you-know-what handed to him?

Something else funny I realized about his thinking. He likes to blame Ashley for losing his squad (which she actually did not) conveniently ingnoring the fact his precious Tali got her squads killed twice when we see her, and Garrus as well.

Again, double-standards = fail.

#252
Xilizhra

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I think it might be a reaction to the hatred, or at least resentment, of Tali and Garrus by many VS fans.

#253
ADLegend21

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Xilizhra wrote...

I think it might be a reaction to the hatred, or at least resentment, of Tali and Garrus by many VS fans.

it actually does go both ways.  I don't read the garrus thread that often but when I do i don't see any bashing of Kaidan, but I've seen several fits of character bashing on the Tali thread of both Miranda and Ashley (not so much of Jack for somen reason) and it's unprovoked. but it's the BSN somebody's gonna be bashing someone.

#254
Xilizhra

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It just seems rather odd for there to be attacks on Tali/Garrus, because they haven't really done anything to Shepard. I can better understand the motive for VS attacks, because players feel betrayed.

#255
Quething

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Well, Tali appears to be a bit in love with Shepard, regardless of ME1 behavior, or gender, or any interest on Shepard's part whatsoever. There's certainly a personality type that considers that a sort of act of aggression against Shepard. Also, she's mean to Legion.

Garrus I can't figure, though. Perhaps just because he's popular. I can understand resentment on the side of VS fans that Garrus fans got to spend a whole game with their guy while they got... Horizon.

#256
CptData

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Quething wrote...

Well, Tali appears to be a bit in love with Shepard, regardless of ME1 behavior, or gender, or any interest on Shepard's part whatsoever. There's certainly a personality type that considers that a sort of act of aggression against Shepard. Also, she's mean to Legion.

Garrus I can't figure, though. Perhaps just because he's popular. I can understand resentment on the side of VS fans that Garrus fans got to spend a whole game with their guy while they got... Horizon.


Can't speak for them, just for me: I like Tali and Garrus and I'm glad they're with Shepard in ME2. Joker, Chakwas, Tali, Garrus - they're part of the original crew, and it's always good to have familiar faces when dealing with everything between heaven and hell.

I don't complain here against both. I don't even have a problem with the lack of VS interaction in ME2. What I don't like is the lack of proper dialogue on Horizon and a story arc similar to the of LotSB. I just wish Shepard could talk to Ashley again post Horizon, either to explain why he's doing what he's doing and/or to renew what they had in ME1. Just a second meeting, not just a message. I could quote myself from a different thread to show how I'd like to see the entire "Horizon stuff" done, but that doesn't fit here (will do on request).

#257
alperez

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The only issue i have with Tali or Garrus is that they're partly the reason the VS. gets such a bad rap for Horizon.

Everytime Horizon is brought up someone, somewhere will bring up Tali and Garrus going with Shepard as a reason to justify their own bashing of the VS, the facts that the situations are completely different and that Shepard when speaking to both Tali and Garrus is not the moron he is on Horizon aren't mentioned, just that since Tali and Garrus could go with Shepard this makes the VS a *insert rude word here*.

Apart from that though, they are 2 of my favs so i was personally just glad to have people like them and Joker and Chakwas with me, i figured if cerberus tried anything then i'd have at least one set of people i could rely on with me.

#258
Eyeshield21

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alperez wrote...

The only issue i have with Tali or Garrus is that they're partly the reason the VS. gets such a bad rap for Horizon.

Everytime Horizon is brought up someone, somewhere will bring up Tali and Garrus going with Shepard as a reason to justify their own bashing of the VS, the facts that the situations are completely different and that Shepard when speaking to both Tali and Garrus is not the moron he is on Horizon aren't mentioned, just that since Tali and Garrus could go with Shepard this makes the VS a *insert rude word here*.

Apart from that though, they are 2 of my favs so i was personally just glad to have people like them and Joker and Chakwas with me, i figured if cerberus tried anything then i'd have at least one set of people i could rely on with me.

insert bad word? okay
The VS are a-holes until they explain themselves in ME3. Those are my terms.
Edit: Ash needs to fight to win me back after calling me a traitor on Horizon! Until she explains herself in ME3, Miranda FTW!

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:12 .


#259
ADLegend21

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Xilizhra wrote...

It just seems rather odd for there to be attacks on Tali/Garrus, because they haven't really done anything to Shepard. I can better understand the motive for VS attacks, because players feel betrayed.

It's mostly because they've turned into creepy fans who drop EVERYTHING when they see the N7 of Shepard's armor. They don't grow that much in the two years Shepard is dead and neither of them has made a difference like the other ME1 squaddies. They're just foot soldiers, nothing more. plus the VS felt betrayed, they're possibly your lover and you don't contact them the minute you get a means to do so? that's cold man, that's just cold.

#260
Cypher0020

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But Shep was dead.... he/she couldn't have contacted anyone.....

I used to hate Horizon, but now I understand it... I don't like it...but I understand it...

If the VS did drop everything.. abandoning the Alliance and Horizon respectively... would fans be happy?

I could still sense deep fanrage no matter what

#261
ADLegend21

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Cypher0020 wrote...

But Shep was dead.... he/she couldn't have contacted anyone.....

I used to hate Horizon, but now I understand it... I don't like it...but I understand it...

If the VS did drop everything.. abandoning the Alliance and Horizon respectively... would fans be happy?

I could still sense deep fanrage no matter what

tis why I said when they had the means. like when you're on the Citadel, I'd have waited until Ashley/Kaidan was back or at least tell Anderson to send me another message when they got back. (or I'll kill him, not really but he wouldn't know that.) Ashley would be OOC because of how dedicated she is to the Alliance and Kaidan would be too because he's a career man and the Alliance takes care of him because he's an L2.

#262
Xilizhra

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ADLegend21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It just seems rather odd for there to be attacks on Tali/Garrus, because they haven't really done anything to Shepard. I can better understand the motive for VS attacks, because players feel betrayed.

It's mostly because they've turned into creepy fans who drop EVERYTHING when they see the N7 of Shepard's armor. They don't grow that much in the two years Shepard is dead and neither of them has made a difference like the other ME1 squaddies. They're just foot soldiers, nothing more. plus the VS felt betrayed, they're possibly your lover and you don't contact them the minute you get a means to do so? that's cold man, that's just cold.

If you ask after them (which I did the instant I got control of the new Normandy), you find out they're on a classified mission... making contact is completely impossible. Also, Garrus couldn't go anywhere else in his situation, as his team was dead and he was cornered, and Tali's mission was pretty much over (note that she didn't drop everything to join you the first time she meets you). Garrus did make a difference on Omega (a small light in great darkness, but still a difference), and Tali's science missions were quite important.

#263
BobZilla84

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I wish that Bioware would release one last ME2 DLC in which Shepard would go to Arcturus Station and turn himself in but before hand He could drop everyone of where ever they decide to go. that way we would get to know where Shepards Dirty Dozen Ends up and what they are going to do next.

Shepard could talk to The Virmire Survivor, Admiral Hackett, Admiral Anderson as well as that Admiral from Mass Effect 1 and any other Important people that Bioware wants to introduce.

And most importantly Shepard would have a chance to talk to Ashley/Kaiden and during the Coversation Shepard should be in a cell and there could be diffrent conversations for romanced and non romanced Shepards.As well as possable exclusive Dialog for Loyal Shepards and Cheating Shepards.

And Ashley/Kaiden could tell Shepard about their Spectre Status but the main thing is that the Virmire Survivor gets some LOTSB Treatment of course it won't be the same because shepard would be in a Cell maybe Shepard could take their Hands in his or Kiss them through the Bars.

The most important thing would be that we would that the whole Horizon Debackle would be set right making us Ashley/Kaiden Fans happy not to mention completely setting up Mass Effect 3.

#264
alperez

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Cypher

Like you i used to hate Horizon, during my first playthrough right up until i received the e-mail from the VS i just couldn't understand why they acted how they did, once i received the e-mail though it changed my perspective.

So while i still intensely dislike almost everything about Horizon, i can at least understand it a bit better and when i put myself in the shoes of the VS. their actions are more justifiable than i originally thought.

As for whether or not having them abandon the alliance, dropping everything and coming with Shepard would have led to fanrage, i disagree somewhat.

Most people would have just accepted it simply because it would have put the VS on your squad. When you look back and see Tali and Garrus joining up despite whatever genuine story reasons why they shouldn't, especially in Tali's case, then i think most people wouldn't have analysed it too deeply.

#265
BobZilla84

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I am not one of the Hardcore Horizon Haters I understand their reasons for not joining up but I still want some resolution with Ashley like Liara got with Lair of the Shadow Broker thats why I suggested a Last Mass Effect 2 DLC in my last Post that would set everything up for Mass Effect 3 tieing up loose ends like how Shepard ended up in Alliance Custody.

I even thought of a name for the DLC A Hero's Fall

#266
Labrev

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Do Not INgeeeeeeh-eeeeehhhhst! Where are you????


I know you're reading this, foo.

#267
ADLegend21

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Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It just seems rather odd for there to be attacks on Tali/Garrus, because they haven't really done anything to Shepard. I can better understand the motive for VS attacks, because players feel betrayed.

It's mostly because they've turned into creepy fans who drop EVERYTHING when they see the N7 of Shepard's armor. They don't grow that much in the two years Shepard is dead and neither of them has made a difference like the other ME1 squaddies. They're just foot soldiers, nothing more. plus the VS felt betrayed, they're possibly your lover and you don't contact them the minute you get a means to do so? that's cold man, that's just cold.

If you ask after them (which I did the instant I got control of the new Normandy), you find out they're on a classified mission... making contact is completely impossible. Also, Garrus couldn't go anywhere else in his situation, as his team was dead and he was cornered, and Tali's mission was pretty much over (note that she didn't drop everything to join you the first time she meets you). Garrus did make a difference on Omega (a small light in great darkness, but still a difference), and Tali's science missions were quite important.

Tiswhy I said Anderson could throw Shep a heads up. No tali didn't come initially but that's more of a game mechanic to make the cerberus experience fresher, but then you get her mission done and it's "Screw the admiralty I'm going with you whether they like it or not" she's actually thinking of defying a government just for Shepard. I'm not sure I'd have appreciated it if we're trying to stealth somewhere and the entire migrant fleet shows up thinking Shepard kidnapped an admirals daughter.

#268
Xilizhra

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Tiswhy I said Anderson could throw Shep a heads up.

Then blame Anderson.

No tali didn't come initially but that's more of a game mechanic to make the cerberus experience fresher

Everything related to Horizon is just as much a game mechanic.

but then you get her mission done and it's "Screw the admiralty I'm going with you whether they like it or not" she's actually thinking of defying a government just for Shepard. I'm not sure I'd have appreciated it if we're trying to stealth somewhere and the entire migrant fleet shows up thinking Shepard kidnapped an admirals daughter.

She tells them, and Kal'Reegar backs her up. And I think she was fairly sure the Admiralty wouldn't mind, she was just angry and saying that in the heat of the moment.

#269
ADLegend21

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The admiralty could just as well have said no, but I bet you taliwouldn't care because her beloved Shepard was doing important work and yada yada yada. because shepard's always right, unless it's about telling teh admiralty about her fathers crimes or trusting a Geth named Legion. Hello circle.

#270
Xilizhra

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She was going to leave Shepard altogether for the treason charge, remember, until Shepard said she'd bring her there. If the Admiralty had insisted, she would have left.

#271
ADLegend21

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still doesn't excuse covering up the greatest war crime in the history of the quarian species.

#272
Quole

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ADLegend21 wrote...

still doesn't excuse covering up the greatest war crime in the history of the quarian species.

if it means not starting a war with the geth and not seperating half the fleet then yes, it does.

#273
Made Nightwing

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Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

still doesn't excuse covering up the greatest war crime in the history of the quarian species.

if it means not starting a war with the geth and not seperating half the fleet then yes, it does.


I assume you would also approve of NATO or the US covering up war crimes, committed by accident or on purpose, in case they proved to be disruptive of the war on terror?

#274
Quole

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Made Nightwing wrote...

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

still doesn't excuse covering up the greatest war crime in the history of the quarian species.

if it means not starting a war with the geth and not seperating half the fleet then yes, it does.


I assume you would also approve of NATO or the US covering up war crimes, committed by accident or on purpose, in case they proved to be disruptive of the war on terror?

Considering this is about the survival of the Flotilla and possible allies against the reapers, its well worth it.  You know the reapers are coming, so why would you handicap yourself by making two possible allies go to war? Or by just making the Migrant Fleet disperse? The only possible good thing you could get from giving the evidence is closure for relatives of those who died on the Aleraei... which is something they would get anyway if the Admiralty blames Tali.

Modifié par Quole, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:28 .


#275
Abispa

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I am curious to see just how the VS / Shepard confrontation is going to be handled in ME3. I don't expect it be drawn out since the writers have said that the reason the VS wasn't in the suicide mission was because they wanted to ensure that s/he would be a major player in ME3.

VS haters seem convinced that they will be able to make the VS shed tears of regret and beg for forgiveness once the events of ME2 are known. Unfortunately one of the reasons the VS is angry is that Shepard is working with Cerberus. S/he even makes the accusation that Cerberus could even be working with the Collectors/Reapers. At the time I thought that charge was stupid even though I liked the VS not rolling over for Shepard as easily as most of the other squadmates do (save Liara who says she's too busy killing people and hacking terminals to help with the mission).

Even I thought that Shepard would be able to throw that "stupid" charge back in the VS' face in ME3, until I saw the trailer with indoctrinated Cerberus soldiers attacking the Alliance for the Reapers. Now I'm not sure how going to win the "YOU are the idiot!" argument.