311 réponses à ce sujet

[ADLegend21]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Meh, I don't see the relevance of the boring, headache prone whiner or the xenophobe wannabe poet that you're saddled with first thing, but to each their own, I guess. Now what makes them so important after originally being auto-slapped into the Normandy and not really affecting anything beyond that, and then abandoning Shep in ME2, I don't know.


Even if they do become Spectres in ME3, apparently they're still following Shepard around, if they're in the Normandy. So they've achieved helping him in ME1, though not being plot-relevant, still helping; Ditched him in ME2; And provided redundant backup Spectre support in ME3. Cool.

Whereas Tali is the sole reason Shepard becomes a Spectre and gets command of the Normandy in the first place, while she and Garrus stay with Shepard rather than, oh, I don't know, trying to enlist in the Alliance military to make redundant favourable human-military history for Shep's cause, and help him *NOT* die on his suicidal mission, thus saving the galaxy.

Quarian testimony to peacefully working with a Geth *may* just prove helpful in ME3; I don't know, I didn't make the rules. The Rebel Turian is probably still just Shepard's constant companion, but no shame in that, there were only ever two.

I wonder what's going to make Ash/Keydin so special in ME3? They're the newly formed Super Spectres, with the abilities too... I don't know, operate even higher above the law than Shepard? Or are they somehow essential to saving Shepard with Joker and EDI (Plus Vega) already onboard and actually flying? I suppose someone had to take up even more room on the cargo ramp and greet Shepard when he jumped on it. Ah well.

oh please,half of this is bashing Kaidan and Ashley. First off they aren't "trying" to enlist, they ARE enlisted, for several years. That's the reason they're on the Normandy in the first place. Also what part of Cerberus is a terroist organization aren't you getting. Since they are alliance, they cannot affiliate with cerberus. period. End of story. the end. As they are not terrosits they're prime spectre candiates until Garrus and Tali who are terroists by association with the zombie Terrorist who hates his mother and won't call her.

[AdmiralCheez]

iakus wrote...

Guess we're not done bashing characters, huh?

I hate all the things you love and love all the things you hate.  This makes me superior, for all that I state is fact, and you are but a troll.

Accept it, iakus.  Accept it before the denial destroys you.

EDIT: I'm going to bed.  All of you quit being dicks about your opinions before I come over there and give you a paddlin'.

/armchair mod

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 06 octobre 2011 - 05:24 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

iakus wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

Meh, I don't see the relevance of the boring, headache prone whiner or the xenophobe wannabe poet that you're saddled with first thing, but to each their own, I guess. Now what makes them so important after originally being auto-slapped into the Normandy and not really affecting anything beyond that, and then abandoning Shep in ME2, I don't know.

Guess we're not done bashing characters, huh?

Stop kidding yourself, Iakus!

[Siansonea]

This is the crux of my whole issue with Horizon, Team Dextro's blind devotion to Shepard, the whole bit. Shepard does questionable things. Shepard should be called on those questionable things. And people can only operate on the information they have. Tali, to her credit, is NOT happy to see Shepard with Cerberus when they meet on Freedom's Progress, and I can kind see why she'd be ready to ditch the quarians after Haestrom. Tali's not as much of a follower as Garrus is. If you don't recruit him in ME1 he will literally stand next to the elevator in C-Sec waiting for you to tell him he can join your team. In ME2, he gets himself into the mother of all predicaments, and immediately signs up with Shepard again, acting like Shepard is his best bud even if Shepard left him standing in C-Sec for the entirety of ME1. Really, it's just sad.

And Kaidan and Ashley have almost no information about Shepard being alive, and it's all so suspicious and sketchy, it's easy to see why they aren't just buying Shepard's "trust me, I got this" line of BS. Everyone acts like people in the game should just automatically trust Shepard just because he/she is Just So Awesome, and the fact of the matter is, sometimes the things Shepard says and does are downright stupid.

[Iakus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

But honestly, I think the whole TALI AND GARRUS ARE BETTER FRIENDS thing is stupid, because what makes a character "better" is entirely subjective.  Yes, I feel that Team Dextro deserve points for being the most loyal, but I also don't hate the VS for not dropping everything and joining up.  Their suspicion is as valid as Dextro's trust, in my opinion, and that's because those characters each have a different set of values.

However, certain things, like Team Dextro pretty much loving you no matter what and Kaidan and Ashley fusing into one character, irk me to no end, but I think that's more a writing oversight than a character flaw.

Indeed.

Cause when you get down to it, by the criteria I've seen here, the most "loyal" of Shepard's companions, LI or not, is Liara.  And I say this as a big Ash fan.

Liara stuck with Shepard's task of opposing the Reapers when everyone else went their seperate ways.  She fought a two year secret war with the Shadow Broker, who had allied with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers.  He essentially became Saren-Lite.  Granted that war was on a certain level personal for her.  But she was the only member of the original squad who continued SHepard's work on any level (that we know of)

[DoNotIngest]

ADLegend21 wrote...
oh please,half of this is bashing Kaidan and Ashley. First off they aren't "trying" to enlist, they ARE enlisted, for several years. That's the reason they're on the Normandy in the first place. Also what part of Cerberus is a terroist organization aren't you getting. Since they are alliance, they cannot affiliate with cerberus. period. End of story. the end. As they are not terrosits they're prime spectre candiates until Garrus and Tali who are terroists by association with the zombie Terrorist who hates his mother and won't call her.

Redundant First Sentence is Redundant. Moving along...


Well, you've convinced me. Surely it was wiser for Ashdan (The entity formerly known as Ashley or Kaidan, which, as Cheez stated, has been fused into one) to remain in their Reaper-owning Alliance positions and keep their hands clean of that devil Shepard, who'd never trust them! Yes, preventing the abduction of billions of humans and the creation of another Reaper is far below patrol duty on Generic Alliance Vessel #4431.


Even as a Spectre, Ashdan was never a leader. One half of it had it's entire squad killed and is afraid & distrustful of other races, the other is a recluse. The fusion has left it a bitter, veangeful hermit.



Alright, I was giggling to no end for that last sentence. Obviously not serious there. But the VS could only match Shepard's status, and they don't use it to break him out, once he's free he's a Spectre again, so what was the point? Besides, anything Shepard has is enhance by his previous deeds, whereas Kaidan Alenko and Ashley Williams aren't exactly legendary.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 06 octobre 2011 - 05:31 .

[DoNotIngest]

Psh. You armchair mods have nothing on armchair trolls.

[Pacifien]

DoNotIngest wrote...
Whereas Tali is the sole reason Shepard becomes a Spectre and gets command of the Normandy in the first place, while she and Garrus stay with Shepard rather than, oh, I don't know, trying to enlist in the Alliance military to make redundant favourable human-military history for Shep's cause, and help him *NOT* die on his suicidal mission, thus saving the galaxy.

Oh hey now, everyone knows the sole reason Shepard becomes a Spectre is because Ashley or Kaidan got a little too close the beacon and Shepard was like "Oh my god, look at the shinies!" and tackled the other guy so he could get to it first.

No wait, I forgot, everyone knows the sole reason Shepard becomes a Spectre is because Shepard gave good head to the thresher maw in order to surv--you know what, I think I'm... not going to go there.

That said, Garrus went with Shepard because he had nowhere else to go. Tali held off going with Shepard because she had this other thing she needed to do. You'd think everyone would just drop what they're doing because they all faced Sovereign together and knew the stakes, but Arrival showed me that even Shepard doesn't jump just because someone says "Reapers! No ****! We got Reapers!" (Shepard: So? Why come to me?)

[DoNotIngest]

Actually, in my playthrough, Shepard gave good head to a horde of Batarian pirates, worth about 50 creds apiece. Thus Terra Nova was saved, and a statue was *erected* in his honour. Huzzah!

[ADLegend21]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

iakus wrote...

Guess we're not done bashing characters, huh?

I hate all the things you love and love all the things you hate.  This makes me superior, for all that I state is fact, and you are but a troll.

Accept it, iakus.  Accept it before the denial destroys you.

EDIT: I'm going to bed.  All of you quit being dicks about your opinions before I come over there and give you a paddlin'.

/armchair mod

sounds hawt.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Pacifien wrote...

(...)

That said, Garrus went with Shepard because he had nowhere else to go. Tali held off going with Shepard because she had this other thing she needed to do. You'd think everyone would just drop what they're doing because they all faced Sovereign together and knew the stakes, but Arrival showed me that even Shepard doesn't jump just because someone says "Reapers! No ****! We got Reapers!" (Shepard: So? Why come to me?)

I honestly facepalmed at that...

[SandTrout]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

iakus wrote...

Guess we're not done bashing characters, huh?

I hate all the things you love and love all the things you hate.  This makes me superior, for all that I state is fact, and you are but a troll.

Accept it, iakus.  Accept it before the denial destroys you.

EDIT: I'm going to bed.  All of you quit being dicks about your opinions before I come over there and give you a paddlin'.

/armchair mod

You shouldn't tempt me like that.

[CptData]

Another of those theads?

Whatever. I saw a statement like following before: Horizon VS suffers bad writing. Both characters seem to be "OOC" when calling Shepard out. However, there are clear signs stuff that happened on Horizon was cut before the release.

Lemme pick 3 points:

1. the VS gets put in stase in the cut scene, but he/she reappears at the end of the mission.
Cut content: most likely a side mission that explains how to rescue that particular character so the Collectors don't drag him/her away.

2. the VS is glad to see Shepard, but lashes out just seconds later
Cut content: some dialogue lines. The VS does not even recognize Garrus and/or Tali, when they're part of your squad. Why? In case of Garrus I can understand, he's an optional squadmember in ME. But Tali?
The presence of one/both should have been enough to cool down the VS - and proving Shepard's not a traitor. Neither Garrus nor Tali would work for him in such case.

3. Post-Horizon stuff
Cut content: most likely a mission or assignment dealing with the VS. It never made it ingame either because BW wanted to use it in a never-released DLC or didn't want to waste a better opportunity to reunite VS and Shepard in ME3.
Whatever the reason was - Horizon is the only place where you meet the VS. It's just a cameo, nothing more.

Overall: I believe some content was cut from the game, resulting in "bad writing" of Horizon. It could have been done differently, with less lashing out of the VS and more positive emotions (especially if the VS was the LI), but it's to late to change anything.

The letter Shepard may get after Horizon (in case the VS was the LI) tries to clear things up. However, I wished BW had added at least a dialogue on the Citadel or something instead of sending a single mail.

Modifié par CptData, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:00 .

[Comsky159]

At this point in the war, I feel it's appropriate to point out that these characters aren't real.

Just try to keep that in mind.

On another note Ash and Kaidan suck!!!

[LeVaughnX]

Most of the replies I've gotten (now that I've stirred the honey comb!) seem to be the same old un-helpful denial that most of the same sex fans have...I haven't really seen many who are taking this "honestly" so to speak.

""The Alliance and Cerberus are sworn enemies!"" --> So blaming the Collectors on Cerberus is justified now because of that? Ash/Kai saw the Reaper threat in person (mind you they didn't talk to Nazara) and now suddenly DENY it...Thats kind of stupid and illogical...

""Yeah well Garrus and Tali..."" --> aren't the topic of concern here; stop pointing fingers elsewhere like I knew most of you would...

""WELL TALI AND GARRUS ARE.."" --> Still not the point of the conversation...


Alright listen; the VS got worse and worse and is nothing more than a bisexual tribute by Mass Effect 3. There is honestly NO REASON for them to be the way they are attitude, sexuality, or "rank" wise in Mass Effect 3. I'm being dead serious when I say I cannot for the life of it see or understand WHY the VS is "de-evolving" personality and maturity wise but getting a higher rank in their own military / getting Spectre status...What the hell did they do?!

I am sick and tired of you kids saying the same stuff over and over; can't you have a conversation without pointing the finger at a different character? Hey - I like Zaeed; what are you going to say about him to get away from the VS conversation?

I just want to know what the hell is the problem with the VS? Is that so hard?


[Edit] Also - can we stop fu*king aruging like little kids? Enough of the finger pointing, enough of the insults, enough of the immature sarcastic posts that are nothing but wastes of posting! If you aren't going to get along and intelligently talk out the situation will you just go back to your fan-shrine?

Thank you!

Modifié par LeVaughnX, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Aeowyn]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

(...)

That said, Garrus went with Shepard because he had nowhere else to go. Tali held off going with Shepard because she had this other thing she needed to do. You'd think everyone would just drop what they're doing because they all faced Sovereign together and knew the stakes, but Arrival showed me that even Shepard doesn't jump just because someone says "Reapers! No ****! We got Reapers!" (Shepard: So? Why come to me?)

I honestly facepalmed at that...

Why? The Alliance and the Council have been denying the Reaper's existance. I guess Shepard just had her own version of a mock "Ah yes, Reapers."

Also, this thread is ridiculous. Moreso with bashing on all sides. Yeah, great way to show that your favourite character is better by bashing other people's favourite characters.

[ADLegend21]

Dude, you started the post off with a motivator saing Tali and garrus are you real friends not Ashley/Kaidan, yet you complain about Tali and Garrus being talked about here? Comeon OP (by the way that means original poster)

Ashley and Kaidan are Spectre's that's a major upgrade, especially in Ashley's case because her family is black listed in the Alliance. That's a huge part of her character in ME1 and she's finally overcome that hurdle. You literally show up after being dead for two years and you're with the enemy of the alliance. TIM has told everyone "yo Shepard , your hero, works for Me and Cerberus, where's your god now?!" and then you prove him right on Horizon the SECOND you tell them Cerberus rebuilt you. right there, you ahve prove dthat you are working for a terrorist organization and therefore have, to them as they do not know what the player knows, turned traitor. Repaers or no Reapers you are now a terrorist. the Reapers have been dismissed to teh majority of the galaxy, and , while Ashley and Kaidan DID speak with Sovereign, you actually saw sovereign, several times. you ahven't seen a Reaper since so they think TIM is just manipulating you and they hate that. they hate seeing Shepard getting used by a manipulative man. in actuallity they care more for that because they aren't enabling you. They're saying "I hate you working for Ceberus and Iw ant no part of it. Then they say "I'm reporting back to the Citadel" their soon to be, or already are employer. they cannot drop everything for shepard even if they wanted to and they don't because you're with Cerberus until you blow up the Collector base at the end of the game.

what aren't you getting Levaughn?

[Pacifien]

LeVaughnX wrote...
I just want to know what the hell is the problem with the VS? Is that so hard?

You. You are the problem. You don't like them. You started with a bad impression of them and, in that light, they were never going to do right by you.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I know that's what was up with it, Aeowyn. I just don't think it was the best line on Shepard's part. Should have been a little more tactful.

[DoNotIngest]

Comsky159 wrote...

At this point in the war, I feel it's appropriate to point out that these characters aren't real.

Just try to keep that in mind.

On another note Ash and Kaidan suck!!!

I like this human, he understands!


On that note, nachos with cheese and salsa.

[CroGamer002]

Aeowyn wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

(...)

That said, Garrus went with Shepard because he had nowhere else to go. Tali held off going with Shepard because she had this other thing she needed to do. You'd think everyone would just drop what they're doing because they all faced Sovereign together and knew the stakes, but Arrival showed me that even Shepard doesn't jump just because someone says "Reapers! No ****! We got Reapers!" (Shepard: So? Why come to me?)

I honestly facepalmed at that...

Why? The Alliance and the Council have been denying the Reaper's existance. I guess Shepard just had her own version of a mock "Ah yes, Reapers."

Also, this thread is ridiculous. Moreso with bashing on all sides. Yeah, great way to show that your favourite character is better by bashing other people's favourite characters.

I wish that was the case, though Shepard says that even with Council dead.

[diamondedge]

I laughed my ass off.

Despite all this proclaimed bad writing everyone seems to point out - Bioware owns your asses here. In 2 hours there have been 4 pages of replies, which wouldn't have happened if people wouldn't be so genuinely ... passionate about the characters and their stance. Which means you know they're ****, but you're powerless to resist. Oh, the irony.

So look, obviously, we each have different values and judged the situation differently, as the conflict on Horizon is far more than one of two team mates or possibly lovers. Even when you try to "justify" your stance it may not always work because someone else's views on limitless devotion should in fact have a limit. Both are right and neither is wrong.

For me it was very simple. "You know me Ash, you know I'd only do this for the right reason." Was all that was needed. You pissy little bi*ch, I'm the only reason you're standing here today. GG, now f*ck of, I'm glad I'm SO romanced Liara and you've just outlived your usefulness.Spectre, bi, I couldn't care less. I am Commander Shepard and I expect you to follow me into the fire - because I SAID SO.

[Aeowyn]

Mesina2 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

(...)

That said, Garrus went with Shepard because he had nowhere else to go. Tali held off going with Shepard because she had this other thing she needed to do. You'd think everyone would just drop what they're doing because they all faced Sovereign together and knew the stakes, but Arrival showed me that even Shepard doesn't jump just because someone says "Reapers! No ****! We got Reapers!" (Shepard: So? Why come to me?)

I honestly facepalmed at that...

Why? The Alliance and the Council have been denying the Reaper's existance. I guess Shepard just had her own version of a mock "Ah yes, Reapers."

Also, this thread is ridiculous. Moreso with bashing on all sides. Yeah, great way to show that your favourite character is better by bashing other people's favourite characters.

I wish that was the case, though Shepard says that even with Council dead.

Well the new Council deny the existance of Reapers too. Councillor Velarn's spirit channels through Shepard