After the First Sacrifice, it is blatantly obvious that(since your party is attacked by shades, abominations and a demon in it) there is something peculiar about that warehouse. In Act 2, we find that neither Knight-Commander Meredith, who is crazy-obsessed with such things, nor soon-to-be Guard Captain Aveline, who might have seen the infestion first hand, have conducted a search of the building which could have led to revealing that not-very-well hidden trapdoor. Considering that such a search would possibly have prevented the deaths of Alessa, Emeric, and Leandra, are either at least partially at fault for these murders? And how might the story have changed if Meredith had uncovered and dealt with a crazy Blood Mage/Necromancer in the heart of Kirkwall? And why the frak could my character not call her out on this failure in Act 3?
Aveline, Meredith, or both?
Débuté par
JohnZ117
, oct. 06 2011 10:49
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#2
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 10:51
Wulfram
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I tend to assume Quentin was using some sort of magic to hide his base.
#3
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 12:25
Urzon
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And since there is a big time gap in between Act 1 and 2, Quentin could have not even been using that warehouse as a base during Act 1.
#4
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 02:44
Killjoy Cutter
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No, there's pretty much an abject and rediculous failure on the part of the Guard and the Templars and Hawke to follow up on anything related to Quentin until it's too late.
#5
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 03:21
Addai
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FIFYKilljoy Cutter wrote...
No, there's pretty much an abject and rediculous failure on the part of the Guard and the Templars and Hawke to follow up on anything related to anything until it's too late.
#6
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 03:31
TheJediSaint
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I'm pretty sure that when Quentin saw that he was discovered, he dropped everything and skipped town before the Templars could search the foundry. He only returned to his lair after the heat of off and everyone was more worried about the Qunari than about apostates. We also can't assume that the underground lair below the foundry was even occupied by Quentin before act 2.
Modifié par TheJediSaint, 06 octobre 2011 - 03:32 .
#7
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 05:21
thats1evildude
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TheJediSaint wrote...
I'm pretty sure that when Quentin saw that he was discovered, he dropped everything and skipped town before the Templars could search the foundry. He only returned to his lair after the heat of off and everyone was more worried about the Qunari than about apostates. We also can't assume that the underground lair below the foundry was even occupied by Quentin before act 2.
Seconded.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 octobre 2011 - 05:25 .
#9
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 06:13
TheJediSaint
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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Excuses, excuses.
Excuses? You're assuming the Guards are idiots. I'm just assuming Quentin isn't.
#10
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 06:32
Killjoy Cutter
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TheJediSaint wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Excuses, excuses.
Excuses? You're assuming the Guards are idiots. I'm just assuming Quentin isn't.
No, I'm going by the fact that no one ever seems to follow up on anything beyond the immediate dangers that are occuring.
#11
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 06:46
Gervaise
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I must admit that when Meredith made that below belt comment about how Hawke wasn't even able to defend their own mother from mages that I would have liked to have come back at her even stronger than allowed at the time, because she didn't back Emerich when he thought something was wrong. However, since Emerich was following up suspected murder, not blood magic, Meredith would argue that it was not her responsibility, particularly as at the time there was still a Vicount in post.
To be fair to Averline, they did follow up on Emerich's lead about Gasgard Du Puis. Since there was no trapdoor when we first visit the Foundary, either it was magically concealed, or as suggested, Quentin lay low for a while - possibly waiting for the information to materialise from Orsino that would help him further his experiments. Once this arrived, he returned to the Foundary and carried on down below. Plus if you confront Du Puis and don't buy his excuse, you end up killing him and everyone thinks that may be the problem is solved. It is only when Emerich is killed you realise Du Puis was telling the truth when he said the killer wasn't him.
As for Hawke, the only thing I feel they could have done better was warn mother about the possibility of a crazed killer on the streets and that if she ever received white lilies, tell Hawke straight away and stay at home. Though I suppose no one would think that walking through lowtown in broad daylight would present much of a risk as she clearly did this on a regular basis and in fact it would seem from the story the kid tells that Quentin tricked her into helping him because she thought he was wounded, rather than simply grabbed her.
So maybe no one could have done more to avert what happened - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
To be fair to Averline, they did follow up on Emerich's lead about Gasgard Du Puis. Since there was no trapdoor when we first visit the Foundary, either it was magically concealed, or as suggested, Quentin lay low for a while - possibly waiting for the information to materialise from Orsino that would help him further his experiments. Once this arrived, he returned to the Foundary and carried on down below. Plus if you confront Du Puis and don't buy his excuse, you end up killing him and everyone thinks that may be the problem is solved. It is only when Emerich is killed you realise Du Puis was telling the truth when he said the killer wasn't him.
As for Hawke, the only thing I feel they could have done better was warn mother about the possibility of a crazed killer on the streets and that if she ever received white lilies, tell Hawke straight away and stay at home. Though I suppose no one would think that walking through lowtown in broad daylight would present much of a risk as she clearly did this on a regular basis and in fact it would seem from the story the kid tells that Quentin tricked her into helping him because she thought he was wounded, rather than simply grabbed her.
So maybe no one could have done more to avert what happened - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
#12
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:21
Arthur Cousland
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I can just imagine Hawke's face turning pale after Bodhan mentions the white lillies sent to Leandra.
As much as that quest was to get people to hate the mages, I hated the writers more for turning mother into frankenstein.
Perhaps if Hawke's sister wasn't a mage, who was in the circle at the time, then it would have been easier to label all mages as evil beings who all need to be put to the torch, but I was able to hate Quentin for the deed and not mages as a whole.
As much as that quest was to get people to hate the mages, I hated the writers more for turning mother into frankenstein.
Perhaps if Hawke's sister wasn't a mage, who was in the circle at the time, then it would have been easier to label all mages as evil beings who all need to be put to the torch, but I was able to hate Quentin for the deed and not mages as a whole.
Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:41 .
#13
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:29
Killjoy Cutter
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It's supposed to make me hate mages by showing me a sick, pathetic monster of a man who happens to be a mage? It never occured to me hate mages because of that arc.
#14
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:32
thats1evildude
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David Gaider wrote...
The quest … is about putting a more personal face on the darker side of magic and the repercussions it can have on innocents.
It's not quite the same as "the quest is about hating mages", but close.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 octobre 2011 - 07:38 .
#15
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:36
TheJediSaint
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I think the point of "All That Remains" was to provoke an emotional response from the player. If there is one thing that Bioware likes to do, it's pluck the player's heart strings.
Modifié par TheJediSaint, 06 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .
#16
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:37
thats1evildude
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TheJediSaint wrote...
I think the point of "All That Remains" was to play provoke an emotional response from the player. If there is one thing that Bioware likes to do, it's play the player's heart strings.
There's that as well.
#17
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 07:41
Gervaise
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Quite true, the guy is a psycopath who unfortunately just happens to be a mage, which allows him to make his sick fantasy a reality. If he hadn't been a mage he would probably still have done it but with less "success". After all if he lived in the real world, he would be locked up in a prison for the criminally insane. I suppose the argument is meant to be that if he hadn't been free, he wouldn't have married, so his wife wouldn't have died and his mind unhinged as a result of grief. But that is a pretty slim argument.
However, Arthur Cousland is probably right and the writers did it because they wanted people to have another justification for backing the Templars (particularly with the 'O' note). It also meant they had a reason why Orsino would have the Harvester notes in his possession.
However, Arthur Cousland is probably right and the writers did it because they wanted people to have another justification for backing the Templars (particularly with the 'O' note). It also meant they had a reason why Orsino would have the Harvester notes in his possession.
#18
Posté 06 octobre 2011 - 08:21
Nerevar-as
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I still don´t buy nobody moved the barrels and found the trapdoor after Quentin dissapeared from a place with no more exits than the door Hawke uses. Either that or he assumed the place was searched in full and thought none would think he would go back. But DA2 writing level points towards the former IMHO.
About BW wanting players to side with the Templars. Is that also the reason we don´t see children in the circle. There must be a few at least. Once I realized of that I won´t ever be joining the templars if I ever finish another playthrough, and now I hate Cullen as a bonus.
About BW wanting players to side with the Templars. Is that also the reason we don´t see children in the circle. There must be a few at least. Once I realized of that I won´t ever be joining the templars if I ever finish another playthrough, and now I hate Cullen as a bonus.
#19
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 04:08
Gervaise
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One thing the writers didn't tie in properly is that Emerich says the guards feel it could just be any old scavenger sack of bones since there is nothing to link it with the actual women who disappear, but Lilettes's wedding ring was actually on the finger of her hand and yet they don't allow you to say this. So really the characters are only stupid/inefficient because the writers make them that way.
#20
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 04:11
esper
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Gervaise wrote...
One thing the writers didn't tie in properly is that Emerich says the guards feel it could just be any old scavenger sack of bones since there is nothing to link it with the actual women who disappear, but Lilettes's wedding ring was actually on the finger of her hand and yet they don't allow you to say this. So really the characters are only stupid/inefficient because the writers make them that way.
to be fair nobody doubt that it was Ninette's remain we found. The problem was that we didn't find the mage woman or any other woman's body part in there. And murder is such a common thing in Kirkwall that people question if the women are being killed by the same guy.
