34 réponses à ce sujet

[winrehs08]

Which do you like more and why?

[foil-]

Sand. Personality.

And because I keep thinking he'll start calling my character Mr. Anderson

[winrehs08]

I like Sand too, not just because of his personality but also what he brings to the table. IMHO, I think Sand offers more than Qara.

[Avalon Aurora]

If forced to choose, I'd probably go for Sand... maybe...

I'm not particularly fond of either though, given that no matter what, one or the other will betray you depending on which one likes you better, as they absolutely can't get along enough to be on the same side against the BBEG... That in mind, I might actually prefer Qara, because she theoretically is young enough that she can still 'grow out of it' and stop being such a spoiled rebellious brat, and she turns against you more because she doesn't really understand about the King of Shadows, and you were probably treating her like poorly (in her opinion at least) when you should have been treating her like your goddess, and kicking Sand every once in a while (to appease her), while Sand will betray you against the current relevant threat in order to try to deal with a potential future threat of dubious actual capability, and repeatedly shows himself to be a bit of an idiot, or at least holding the idiot ball, especially if you compare potential trial stuff of your diplomacy ranked character to letting him manage it.

[HoonDing]

As a sorceress, Qara is much more powerful, easier to manage and I like her fiery temperament. She always becomes a very loyal friend with high influence, while Sand always remains a pedantic stickler that gets ticked off whenever you do something not according to his own will.

Sand clearly hates Qara and can't help but constantly pester her, he should know better. The way he betrays you in the end just because of his dislike, is pretty pathetic as well (due to cut content).

Interestingly enough, the cut content reveals Sand was jealous of Qara's power and feared her as an even greater threat to the Sword Coast than Garius.

Modifié par virumor, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:42 .

[jlb524]

Qara was my homegirl.  Oddly enough, she was the companion I usually had the highest influence with.

virumor wrote...

Sand clearly hates Qara and can't help but constantly pester her, he should know better. The way he betrays you in the end just because of his dislike, is pretty pathetic as well (due to cut content).

Interestingly enough, the cut content reveals Sand was jealous of Qara's power and feared her as an even greater threat to the Sword Coast than Garius.

Yeah, he was just a hater.

[Sarethus]

Qara, her abilities when you first get her (if your not a spell caster yourself) are very useful. Why toss her aside for Sand?

Beyond that though I somewhat agree with Avalon Aurora that Qara at least is young and is likely to grow out of her behaviour given proper encouragement (not admonishments). Sand on the other hand is a centuries old elf who should a) Know better but is instead stuck in his bad behavior and Stop blaming Qara for what her father did to him (Cut Content) and needs to have an urgent rethink about his priorities when fighting BBEG.

As far as Qara goes, I can understand her frustration somewhat. For a Sorceress, experience would be a better teacher. Her father must have had a screw loose to put her in a Wizard's Academy.

[Seagloom]

virumor wrote...

As a sorceress, Qara is much more powerful, easier to manage and I like her fiery temperament. She always becomes a very loyal friend with high influence, while Sand always remains a pedantic stickler that gets ticked off whenever you do something not according to his own will.

Qara is like that too. Her influence drops like a stone if your character is sane enough to disagree with her, or you know, likes to read. Qara is at least as arrogant as Sand. She merely presents her egotism in a brusquer manner that makes it easier to dismiss her behavior.

In short, pick your poison: Qara's immature, self-important thuggery versus Sand's passive aggressive embittered elitism.

As for my choice, Sand wins by a landslide. I played a sorceress once to get high influence with Qara and see what it was like. There were a few touching moments that made me wish there was more to Qara. However, I cannot get over the fact garnering influence with her means agreeing with some very ethically distasteful suggestions. Qara has strong chaotic evil leanings; and is way too quick to resolve issues with violence. Playing any character from neutral on up guarantees she will dislike my KC. Even when I gain bits of influence with her, most of those gains are pissed away later. Disagreeing with Qara on anything tends to result in staggering loss of influence.

Mechanically speaking, direct damage is vastly inferior to crowd control and utility; and this gap widens as the game progresses. I can empty out Qara's entire payload of fireballs on two encounters, or have Sand cast a single haste that helps the rest of my party accomplish the same. Simply put, Qara's power is only marginally useful to start and is quickly superseded by Sand's myriad party enchancers, enchantment and transmutation spells. Since Qara is limited in her spells known and already specialized in nuking opposition, she can never replace Sand in this role. As well, Sand makes an excellent wand and item crafter. He is the team player.

Personality wise, my characters do conflict with Sand on occasion. He provides some humorous banter, but is quite prickly. I tend to always lose influence with him along the way. Just not as much as I lose with Qara even when intentionally insulting him. He is definitely a flawed character.

The OP asked us to choose between them; but honestly, I prefer taking Ammon Jerro if I want a blaster, and Elanee or Zhjaeve if I need additional party support. Since I play bards or sorcerers myself, I can usually cover the buffing/crowd control role with my own character in a pinch.

Modifié par Seagloom, 09 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[Tchos]

I preferred Qara, and was not sad when Sand betrayed me.  It was no real surprise, even without knowing that it's one or the other, because I never took Sand along in my party except when he was forced in.  Even though I myself value learning and am of neutral good (tending toward lawful) alignment, I enjoyed Qara's enthusiasm (Hope they like being on fire!) much more than Sand's snide remarks (Listening...really).  I didn't have to actually agree with all of her opinions or preferences -- it was just a matter of knowing how to frame things in ways she would agree with or understand.

Besides, the several mobs of murderous academy students and the Luskan assassination deal were far out of line, and in my game, she hadn't done anything to deserve that kind of retaliation, so she had my support.  She also had times in dialogue when she sounded friendly or helpful, besides the time where she came to me unbidden and volunteered to take my place in the trial by combat.

Perhaps Sand would have had some less sneering dialogue at some point if I had courted his favour as well, but it wasn't worth it to me.  I was a druid/wizard myself, and as a sorceress, Qara had more than enough spells to make up for my deficiencies.

[casadechrisso]

Sand was the most memorable character in the OC, he kept me playing. Love that guy.

[Dann-J]

I found Sand to be a bit too arrogant and pompous (ie. a typical elf). Qara was slightly less arrogant and pompous - and liked blowing things up. So Qara won by a nose.

Also, I just don't trust elves. They're secretive, they live way too long, and they should all just go back to Evermeet where they came from. Call me racist, but it was the way I was brought up...

Modifié par DannJ, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:39 .

[The Fred]

Sands arrogance and pomp are his attraction. After all, he is better than you at everything.

Qara was just annoying.

Anyway, I'd rather take a Wizard than a Sorcerer any day. A Sorcerer has more raw power, but a Wizard can be the Swiss Army Knife of D&D, and when you can rest so easily, the Sorcerer's extra spells aren't so useful anyway. Simply chaining Fireballs is no fun either.

[Dann-J]

Chaining fireballs is the very essence of fun!

[Jesse_the_Thief]

Qara needed a good beating with a sack full of bar soap. Sand actually knew things.

[themincer]

In a fight I'd want Qara on my team (Qara blows crap up consistently and seemed to use her defensive abilities capably, whilst Sand seemed to die incredibly easily, and kept doing retarded-stuff like running up to enemies and clubbing them with his staff, lol).

Personality-wise Sand has the edge (he's far wiser, and useful in non-combat situations, e.g. the trial; whereas Qara is worse than useless in a similiar role).

In my only playthrough of this game (just recently finished it), I ended up with a much higher reputation with Qara, and so Sand betrayed me (and incidentally, ended up being the only companion I was forced to kill).
I have to admit, I felt somewhat hurt that he did, and Qara's poor lack of reasoning for not betraying me also (basically saying she won't join Garius cos Sand is with him) kind of peed me off aswell.
But, in her defense - she came to me and offered to fight my duel for me against Lorne. And I honoured her offer - and she won it for me. So she has my loyalty. Plus, my character was a sorcerer also (and I became chaotic neutral over time aswell ), so I felt some sort of kinship with her too.

Modifié par themincer, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Tchos]

Sand botched my trial somehow when I tried leaving it in his hands. Don't know why, since I was able to win it when I argued it myself.

As for the "chaining fireballs" thing...she had quite a bigger variety of spells than that after she'd been leveling with me for a while, but even so, her fire arrows and fireballs came in quite handy during the "burn the siege towers" quest. She sounded pretty delighted when I told her, "Don't hold yourself back for this."

[Seagloom]

themincer wrote...

In a fight I'd want Qara on my team (Qara blows crap up consistently and seemed to use her defensive abilities capably, whilst Sand seemed to die incredibly easily, and kept doing retarded-stuff like running up to enemies and clubbing them with his staff, lol).

This is why I never play mages outside puppet mode. Qara has a tendency to blow crap up consistently alright--the party included.  I usually gave her a ranged weapon the AI could fire at will. Any spellcasting was up to me. Even later on when I could cast Energy Immunity on everyone so my sorceress and Qara could go nova without killing the party, I preferred to take a direct hand. Otherwise she would waste useful spells on mooks.

I should note I played without resting after every encounter.

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 décembre 2011 - 05:37 .

[themincer]

Seagloom wrote...

themincer wrote...

In a fight I'd want Qara on my team (Qara blows crap up consistently and seemed to use her defensive abilities capably, whilst Sand seemed to die incredibly easily, and kept doing retarded-stuff like running up to enemies and clubbing them with his staff, lol).

This is why I never play mages outside puppet mode. Qara has a tendency to blow crap up consistently alright--the party included.  I usually gave her a ranged weapon the AI could fire at will. Any spellcasting was up to me. Even later on when I could cast Energy Immunity on everyone so my sorceress and Qara could go nova without killing the party, I preferred to take a direct hand. Otherwise she would waste useful spells on mooks.

I should note I played without resting after every encounter.

Funny that - I never had any real problems with friendly-fire aoe damage with my party, but maybe it's cos I told every caster companion to use "scaled casting mode" rather than the frankly ridiculously OTT default "overkill casting mode".

I also set my "Ally damage (party)" to "Low" or "Medium" depending on the encounter, but never used "High".

I was also obsessed with getting the best elemental and spell resistance gear for practically every party member possible - particularly the melee-centric companions (as I found the enemies' offensive aoe damage spells were the types of attacks that tended to kill my party members more than any other), so that might've had something to do with it, too.

Still, even with all these settings, Qara still used to blow enemies up, given time - she was just more careful than default behaviours tend to allow.


I too, only used to rest once all the casters basically ran out of spells/or my melee characters' health couldn't be restored further by healing spells anymore (PS - I overloaded Grobnar, Elanee and Zhjaeve with healing spells quite alot aswell).

Thing is, with my character being a sorcerer himself, I ended up using/controlling him the majority of the time anyway - but the times I did have Qara and/or Sand in the party, I found Qara was far more suited for combat, in my experience.
I even gave Sand the best (defensively-speaking) mage gear out of all of us, just so he could survive big fights, and was very careful in his selection of spells (I gave him many defensive-type spells), but it still didn't tend to help in the end.

As a sidenote - I gave Qara the 'Invisibility Sphere' spell quite early on in my playthrough, and she seemed incredibly adept at using it at all the right times (at the very least, it certainly saved me some trouble during a few tough battles, that's for sure).

Modifié par themincer, 03 décembre 2011 - 11:00 .

[Seagloom]

I tried scaled casting mode. The results were still disastrous as I loaded Qara up with offensive evocation and conjuration spells befitting her early spell selection and personality. None of the resistance bonus gear provided elemental immunity until very late into the game. By then it was redundant since I had Elanee or Zjhaeve cast Energy Immunity on everyone present. I kept ally damage on high admittedly; because I thought it was only fair friendly fire did full damage. If not, I may as well have played on normal difficulty and ignored it entirely. Just my preference.

The only character I left AI casting on for was Ammon Jerro. I made sure to load him up with party friendly invocations and left him to his own devices.

Playing a sorcerer, I agree Qara was more useful than Sand when taking a brute force approach. Bringing her along effectively doubled my spell repertoire. Plus two blasts per round are always better than one. But when I played a bard, I found Sand infinitely more useful. My character would set enemies up with Curse Song, and Sand would knock them down with a well placed enchantment, Flesh to Stone, Slow or the like. Her inspirations and Heroism spells also skyrocketed his touch attack bonus; making his Disintegrate reliably lethal. Sand was an undead dust making machine late game.

Defensively Sand and Qara are identical. It all depends on spell selection. Mages are pushover unless multiclassed and relying on Expertise cheese. Invisibility helps but is largely a stalling tactic or means of covering an escape; save for Improved Invisibility that comes with 50% concealment. I typically loaded up Sand with Mirror Image, Displacement, and Stoneskin. That made him durable, but hardly untouchable since it did nothing for his armor class. My bard had an identical defensive spell selection; but because she had Curse Song, wore a chain shirt, shield, and had Expertise, she was better at tanking than anyone else in the party. So basically, Sand's spells were meant to keep him alive long enough for another party member to save him--not make him invincible. Ditto with Qara. Bards, clerics, and druids are just better than mages here.

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 décembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[Tchos]

(PS - I overloaded Grobnar, Elanee and Zhjaeve with healing spells quite alot aswell).

Just a little aside: Since Zhjaeve is a cleric, you don't actually need to have her prepare healing spells.  You can load her up with anything, and then when you need healing, you can click the "spontaneous conversion" button in the quick cast menu, and it'll turn any of her spells into a healing spell of the same level.  Handy for flexibility.  Elanee's conversion isn't quite as useful, as a druid -- her spells turn into "summon creature" spells.

[themincer]

Tchos wrote...

(PS - I overloaded Grobnar, Elanee and Zhjaeve with healing spells quite alot aswell).

Just a little aside: Since Zhjaeve is a cleric, you don't actually need to have her prepare healing spells.  You can load her up with anything, and then when you need healing, you can click the "spontaneous conversion" button in the quick cast menu, and it'll turn any of her spells into a healing spell of the same level.  Handy for flexibility.  Elanee's conversion isn't quite as useful, as a druid -- her spells turn into "summon creature" spells.

Lol, you're completely right - I totally forgot about that! Thanks for the heads up! (I'll remember that in case I ever do another playthrough sometime)

Ah well, Elanee was in my group pretty much most of the time (unless Zhjaeve was forced into my group), so she tended to do the rounds as the healer.
If I did have Zhjaeve with me, she ended up doing the "true-name ritual" alot too, so she was pretty busy enough without doing offensive spells aswell.
Although I only used Grobnar a few times in the game for combat, his ability to use his heals several times over was a nice touch to make up for his lack of flexibility in other areas.

I like the idea of a Spirit Shaman and Favoured Soul too (sort of like the equivalent of what a Sorcerer is to a Wizard, only in respect to Druids, and Clerics, respectively). It's a similiar benefit to that of a Bard, with similiar limitations, for the most part.

Okay, I'll shutup now - I'm derailing this thread quite a lot, lol

[themincer]

Seagloom wrote...

I kept ally damage on high admittedly; because I thought it was only fair friendly fire did full damage. If not, I may as well have played on normal difficulty and ignored it entirely. Just my preference.

Lol, all this time I thought that option was do with how recklessly or not my party's AI decides to throw about aoes rather than how much friendly-fire damage scales. *facepalm* I obviously mis-interpretated it, lol 


Edit: I just had a look at my final save for the OC and aoe damage is actually set to high after all, lmao.

I guess I was incorrectly remembering my choices/preferences from my more recent playthough of Storm of Zehir, instead (where I definitely do have aoe set to medium).

*Embarrassingly skulks away from this thread, never to be heard from again*

Modifié par themincer, 04 décembre 2011 - 02:38 .

[Tchos]

themincer wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
I kept ally damage on high admittedly; because I thought it was only fair friendly fire did full damage. If not, I may as well have played on normal difficulty and ignored it entirely. Just my preference.

Lol, all this time I thought that option was do with how recklessly or not my party's AI decides to throw about aoes rather than how much friendly-fire damage scales. *facepalm*

Isn't that what it is?  The description of that behaviour when you click on it is: "party members will avoid damaging party members with AoE spells."  If it's actually scaling the amount of damage, I would expect it to be under "gameplay options" next to the difficulty slider, not under "ally behaviour".