4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

And completing all sidequests before triggering the big main plot thing is standard reflex for me in a Bioware game.

For you, yeah.  For me, being able to continue the game after beating it was a godsend because I could save the piddly things for later.

As much as I am a completionist, when I heard I could save N7 missions until after the game I wept manly tears. It gave me one hour missions I could play after the game for weeks afterwards.

[DiebytheSword]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

There are plenty of reasons not to go after the IFF, in fact, the dialogue after the collector ship pretty much warns you that your team needs to be focused and ready before going after the collectors.  Those lines occur right before the choice.  I just played the collector ship last night.

The warnings are there, if you listen to them.

Well, they had to give a little warning.  Otherwise it'd be completely unfair and bad game design.  But they weren't obvious, and easy to gloss over by courtesy of riding the spacebar or not wanting to listen to a damn thing Miranda says.  The average first-time player probably didn't know it'd be that important (as is evident by average casualties being at 15%).

Every time I hear a character say what a huge threat to the galaxy reapers are, I think, "Thank your lucky stars that spacebars do not lurk in darkspace."

I have had to reload more times for accidentally picking an option I didn't want for the current playthrough than I care to admit.  Especially with how much I loved the voice acting.  After the first playthrough though I burn through with subtitles on. 

The voice actors never see me coming.

[BubbleSauce]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Not buying it. THis isn't oppression. not being accepted into a galatical VIP party isn't my idea of oppression. Take up history or something man.

By definition, oppression is the excercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel or unjust manner.
In what way is the coucil saying "Come join our big inter-stellar bruhaha and do what we say, or we'll kill you" not exactly that. Oh, and I did take history, to GCSE and A-Level. What does knowing the definition of a word have to do with history?

Prince Zeel wrote...

"PLOT REASON" HAHAHHAAHAHHA
The only plot reason was the horny fanbase that needs to be nuked off the planet. Is there a particular plot point in getting an asari lapdance? Or getting ****** drunk in ME2 Omega bar? Come on. Spare me the jargon. This is a game, and like all games it wants to sell. So what does it do? sticks some alcohol, boobies and a crappy ass sex scene in it. Don't you dare delude yourself into thinking that was for the PLOTZ.

Well actually I wasn't referring to that at all, I was referring to the part where had to visit aria to get information, I suppose having an asari dance on top of you is a little tasteless. Ok I'll admit to that one. 

Prince Zeel wrote...

All that other crap that followed is complete stetching. Legion is a robot, not some "human being"

He may not be human, but he is sentient, he is intellegent, he can show compassion, and he does in that very mission, he can make choices independently and deserves a right to live, and a right to free thought, If the geth were nothing more than mere machines or tools then I would have no qaulms about wiping them, but they aren't, they are sentient, just like you and me. 

[Collider]

Legion and the geth are too dangerous.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Attitudes like the OP's are a cancer in the heart of this industry, and the entertainment industry in general.

I'm not asking for a DAII-style lack of choice or ability to make any difference at all (even though an everybody dies ending wouldn't be that bad for ME), but I do want better storytelling. The kind of storytelling one should expect, almost even demand, from a developer like BioWare. We shouldn't have to wait for the latest rare gem, a Shadow of the Colossus, Lost Odyssey or Prince of Persia, to get an elegant and decent enough story.

Is storytelling of a sub-par level - even compared to "mere" shooters - really more desireable than the dramatic death of Garrus, Liara or Anderson? Do we really need Thane live a normal and healthy life despite him introducing himself as a dying man? Do you really want Shepard to save the entire galaxy without any harm done to anyone, to have him get married with Tali or Miranda and use his magic sperm to impregnate them in the epilogue, just so you can have your happy sunshine ending?

It's quite ironic, really: for years people on here have looked down on stuff like Halo, Gears, Killzone and Call of Duty, claiming those games, their stories and respecting communities to be that much simpler than those found on the BioWare side of the fence... yet only here will one find people advocating against story integrity or against good storytelling. 

[Prince Zeel]

Listen man. Apparently you're playing the wrong game. Cause half the things you spew don't even happen in the game

By definition, oppression is the excercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel or unjust manner.
In what way is the coucil saying "Come join our big inter-stellar bruhaha and do what we say, or we'll kill you" not exactly that. Oh, and I did take history, to GCSE and A-Level. What does knowing the definition of a word have to do with history?

If you want to stretch it, then yes, not being accepted into the VIP section is "oppression". It's just the type of oppression that is not worth noting. Is like my whining about my mom taking my keyboard away as punishment. when kids in Mozambique are being fed rice because there is no other food to eat.

Well actually I wasn't referring to that at all, I was referring to the part where had to visit aria to get information, I suppose having an asari dance on top of you is a little tasteless. Ok I'll admit to that one. 

That's all I ask.

He may not be human, but he is sentient, he is intellegent, he can show compassion, and he does in that very mission, he can make choices independently and deserves a right to live, and a right to free thought, If the geth were nothing more than mere machines or tools then I would have no qaulms about wiping them, but they aren't, they are sentient, just like you and me. 

No, he doesn't. All his thoughts are functions of some sort of robotic horde like being. Where does he exercise independent though. Better yet, do the Geth even feel emotions?

and there isnt enough ganja in this bong to convince me that geth are as "human" as me.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Attitudes like the OP's are a cancer in the heart of this industry, and the entertainment industry in general.

Yeah, f*ck you too, pal.

/dick mode

[Sgt Stryker]

Prince Zeel wrote...

No, he doesn't. All his thoughts are functions of some sort of robotic horde like being. Where does he exercise independent though. Better yet, do the Geth even feel emotions?

and there isnt enough ganja in this bong to convince me that geth are as "human" as me.

...No data available.

[Prince Zeel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Attitudes like the OP's are a cancer in the heart of this industry, and the entertainment industry in general.

I'm not asking for a DAII-style lack of choice or ability to make any difference at all (even though an everybody dies ending wouldn't be that bad for ME), but I do want better storytelling. The kind of storytelling one should expect, almost even demand, from a developer like BioWare. We shouldn't have to wait for the latest rare gem, a Shadow of the Colossus, Lost Odyssey or Prince of Persia, to get an elegant and decent enough story.

Is storytelling of a sub-par level - even compared to "mere" shooters - really more desireable than the dramatic death of Garrus, Liara or Anderson? Do we really need Thane live a normal and healthy life despite him introducing himself as a dying man? Do you really want Shepard to save the entire galaxy without any harm done to anyone, to have him get married with Tali or Miranda and use his magic sperm to impregnate them in the epilogue, just so you can have your happy sunshine ending?

It's quite ironic, really: for years people on here have looked down on stuff like Halo, Gears, Killzone and Call of Duty, claiming those games, their stories and respecting communities to be that much simpler than those found on the BioWare side of the fence... yet only here will one find people advocating against story integrity or against good storytelling. 

Amusing.  your examples have what I call lackluster stories. especially shadow of the colossus, the dude just becomes a demon dude. SPOILER SPOILER I mean, unexpected yes, but, whats so stellar about that? What did I learn? not to to trust demons? Thanks shadow of the collosus, I already knew that.

And prince of persia, the first game? All he did was ****** through the game, meet some chick and then rewind time. And trust me, everyone saw that coming

[Prince Zeel]

No it's not. This guy is just whining about how the story isn't "GOOD" enough for him because he thinks a team of shakespears are working on his bloody Galatic sci fi game.

He needs to grow up.

[AdmiralCheez]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Oh come on, don't fight. This is a good topic.

It's good until people come in here and say that my perspective is what's killing the entertainment industry, then bash everything I said in a purely combative manner without considering a middle ground or carefully pointing out why they disagree.

I especially hate being called a cancer when I'm still in mourning for real people that died of that disease.  I get mad at Parkinson's, gay, and bipolar jokes, too.

Sorry, Kaiser's been hitting a lot of my berserk buttons lately.

SERIOUS RESPONSE: Allowing player choice and a happier sort of ending does not compromise story integrity.  It's like saying the only way to make a story good is to murder the cast.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:09 .

[Prince Zeel]

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends and family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:09 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

Really?

[Dave of Canada]

What I want:
Shepard arrives to Rannoch and has to deal with the Quarian and Geth fleets, you're busy solving their issues while the Reapers are devastating everything throughout the galaxy.

The Quarians offer a solution: Wipe out the Geth, infect them with a virus that wipes them off the face of the galaxy and you'd have the Quarian fleet available to you as quickly as possible which allows you to go on being a big goddamn hero as quickly as possible.

Consequences:
(GOOD) The Quarian fleet is gained, less time is spent arguing meaning there's less destruction in the galaxy.
(BAD) The Geth are destroyed, you lose Legion (he dies too).

The Geth offer a solution: Wipe out the Quarians, they don't want it but they understand that they're under constant threat and it's never going to end. They've got some weapons which they'd be capable of activating to destroy the Quarian flotilla, you just need to go out and activate them while they're being disassembled by Quarian engineers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) The Geth are recruited, less time is spent arguing meaning there's less destruction in the galaxy.
(BAD) The Quarians are destroyed, Tali is absolutely disgusted / furious at Shepard.

You realize there's a third solution: Through peace and negotiations, you'd be capable of making them understand each other and join together into your fleet and fight against the Reapers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Both fleets join your side.
(BAD) It took far much longer to negotiate the peace, more people have died throughout the galaxy.

With your new fleet, you fly toward Tuchanka where you left James Vega to discuss with Wrex and prepare the Krogan fleets. You arrive and discover the Reapers have intervened with their efforts, they're orbitally bombarding Tuchanka and preventing the Krogan from doing much of anything.

Wrex and Vega contact Shepard and tell them to run, Tuchanka isn't going to make it and Shepard needs his/her fleet and time to save the galaxy.

You decide to send your fleet in against the Reapers, you fight a brutal space and ground battle which results in a lot of destruction among your numbers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Krogan join your fleet, Vega survives.
(BAD) Your fleet was almost destroyed, it took a long time to save the Krogan.

You decide to hold off your fleet, Vega says he understands and Wrex says it was an honor knowing you. You fly away as Tuchanka is being destroyed in the distance.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Your fleet is spared, more time is available to save everybody else.
(BAD) Wrex and the Krogan are destroyed, Vega is killed.

You arrive to another planet and depending on how "long" you've taken, the planet has:
Just started to be invaded, allowing you to possibly save more soldiers.
Has been under invasion for a while, you fight through indoctrinated soldiers but can save half of them.
The planet has been harvested, you fly past it's remains.

What I don't want:
You always arrive at the nick of time, your fleet's casualties mean nothing regardless of the invasion occuring around you and no matter how long it takes for you to save the galaxy it won't get any worse. The sacrifices are never personal.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:12 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

I'm just saying that people should tone down that kind of language.  For me, seeing people mocking a disease that I or people I love have personally experienced hurts more than being called a fat b*tch or whatever.

I'm on a crusade against insensitivity and sometimes it gets me into trouble.

[Sgt Stryker]

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

Really?

Those kinds of posts are what the little red button in the top right corner is for.

Prince Zeel wrote...

Back, and I've learned how to conduct myself.

Ha.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:15 .

[Chewin]

Dave of Canada wrote...
What I don't want:
You always arrive at the nick of time, your fleet's casualties mean nothing regardless of the invasion occuring around you and no matter how long it takes for you to save the galaxy it won't get any worse. The sacrifices are never personal.

I could deal with that.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

*snip*

See, that actaully sounds good.  I'd play the hell out of that, because it involves careful consideration of all the risks and benefits that come with each decision.  It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but you can still protect the things you care about and win in the end.

Nobody wants the game to be easy or completely free of all gloom and doom.  I mean, duh, it's a war story.

[KBomb]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Attitudes like the OP's are a cancer in the heart of this industry, and the entertainment industry in general.

Oh, isn’t your opinion edgy and non-conforming.

I'm not asking for a DAII-style lack of choice or ability to make any difference at all (even though an everybody dies ending wouldn't be that bad for ME), but I do want better storytelling. The kind of storytelling one should expect, almost even demand, from a developer like BioWare. We shouldn't have to wait for the latest rare gem, a Shadow of the Colossus, Lost Odyssey or Prince of Persia, to get an elegant and decent enough story.

Again, it’s your opinion that only death and sadness does a good story make. Most people here have said they were fine with sacrifices and consequences. There are ways to implement it all. That is good story-telling in my opinion.

Is storytelling of a sub-par level - even compared to "mere" shooters - really more desireable than the dramatic death of Garrus, Liara or Anderson? Do we really need Thane live a normal and healthy life despite him introducing himself as a dying man? Do you really want Shepard to save the entire galaxy without any harm done to anyone, to have him get married with Tali or Miranda and use his magic sperm to impregnate them in the epilogue, just so you can have your happy sunshine ending?

Shepard saving the entire galaxy without harm to anyone? Who here asks for that? Marriage and babies? Who in this thread asked for that? A happy sunshine ending? Who here has used those words to describe the endings they want? No one but the ones who oppose. That is the catch phrase they have coined. Hyperbole doesn’t make an argument more valid.

It's quite ironic, really: for years people on here have looked down on stuff like Halo, Gears, Killzone and Call of Duty, claiming those games, their stories and respecting communities to be that much simpler than those found on the BioWare side of the fence... yet only here will one find people advocating against story integrity or against good storytelling. 

I don’t make a habit to look down on other games. I respect other people’s choice. I don’t need to look down my nose at what other people do to make myself feel superior. I do play CoD for the story. I loved GoW’s story too. As I have discussed with Dave of Canada, I have no problem with sacrificing, consequences and the loss of millions. As I have said before, I do not mind you and people like you having an ending that you want. I just wish people would get off their soap box and stop acting like their ending is the only canon ending and options should be denied for the sake of what they believe their story should reflect in their opinion and tastes. I am for several endings, all which have variant outcomes that would satisfy many, if not the majority of fans.

And Dave of Canda: Very nice post and I would be happy with that.

Modifié par KBomb, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:21 .

[sp0ck 06]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends and family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

GTFO dude.

How does having a "happy" ending compromise story integrity?  You just into some emo s**t where everyone dies and that somehow makes it more "deep"?  Its a video game man...just chill out.  

Besides, of course there's going to be multiple endings so whats the big deal?