4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Saber Wolf]

Chewin3 wrote...

Datas_12 wrote...
Yup, considering how you could spare Loghain but the majority still killed him.

People who misjudged him goes into that category.

Looked pretty much an assh*le to me.

[Yezdigerd]

Athayniel wrote...
I have never seen this debate as a Paragon/Renegade dichotomy. I don't understand why people make that inference

Several of the participants are quite recognizable in the common Paragon/Renegade discussions. It's hardly surprising that those who prefer summary excecutions, abandoning the council, rachni queen etc want more misery.

[Chewin]

Datas_12 wrote...
Looked pretty much an assh*le to me.

As I said, people who misjudged him (or perhaps they understand him and still hate him).

But it doesn't really matter, b/c this is going off topic.

Modifié par Chewin3, 17 octobre 2011 - 08:11 .

[Phaedon]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Uh, that's actually pretty cool, I guess.

Wow, I am tired.

You accidentally became a part-time philosopher.

Heck yes, you should be tired. 

[Il Divo]

Phaedon wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Uh, that's actually pretty cool, I guess.

Wow, I am tired.

You accidentally became a part-time philosopher.

Heck yes, you should be tired. 

No such thing. Being a philosopher is a full-time job.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

But there we get into the issue of the "perfect ending". It still doesn't remove the tension though; the problem is that since the player is now aware of this fact (he can save every squad-mate), it is still contingent on him. If I want, I can now say "every squad-mate will survive", long as I wish it.

"Perfect ending" is subjective.  Is a perfect ending if you save the forest, or your favorite trees?  You could declare that "everyone lives" but at what price?  Would Garrus thank you for saving him if he's the last living turian?  

Think of the ending for DAO:  You can save Allistair, but at the price of losing his friendship, your life, or unleashing the Dark Ritual.  Which is the "perfect ending"?

But I'd argue that's the case in any medium, especially considering there character death is mandatory. Obviously I agree that "good character death" is better than "bad character death", but that's an issue of implementation. That does not change that other characters have died in other stories, and very effectively. Bioware can certainly do it if others can.

Ah but most mediums the reader/viewer is a passive participant.  The author is dictating a story.  In something like Mass Effect, the player has an active role in the story (within limits of course)  It is Shepard's decisions which guides the story.  It's what determined if Wrex died on Virmire or not.  Whether Ashley or Kaidan survived.  Who lived and died on the Suicide Mission.  And to an extend who got recruited for it as well.  At this pont every single squadmate save Liara has had his or her life in Shepard's hands at some point in the trilogy.  If that were to change now, that could lead to...unpleasantness...

[Nizzemancer]

Mi-Chan wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...


It's not crap at all...Are you dense or something? The reason they didn't have any problems with the other missions was because they didn't require their full undistracted attention, the suicide mission however obviously did or everyone would have survived regardless of your choices.

Using Tali as an example, there's a slight difference between shooting bad guys and hacking alien machinery she's never tried her hand at before. The former can be done while chatting (as proven in LOtSB), while the latter would require someone's undivided attention.

/opinion

Trust me, being on the battlefield takes focus, it's not something you do lighthearted while chatting about last nights game or something. The Omega relay base is basicly in the thickest ****storm they can find, it's obvious that it requires a lot more focus than the other missions, there's no inconsistency there at all.

[Nashiktal]

Recruiting Tali on haestrom involved fighting a platoon of geth, who are just as, if not more focused and dangerous as collectors. When I went to recruit her, garrus was "unfocused" from when he heard about sidonus, and thane had talked to me about his son.

Yet none of them died for some odd reason. I mean we were cut off, fighting overwhelming odds, with only a single lone (badass) quarian as backup. To top it all off... When a character does die during the suicide mission, its not because of focus, its because garrus suddenly decides to become bulletproof or not.

Don't get me started on miranda, who doesn't even need the supposed "focus" to survive. *flips table with arms*

Excuse me for losing my suspension of disbelief during the suicide mission.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:42 .

[Nizzemancer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mi-Chan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

There wasn't any.....

The SM didn't really make any sense (except for ship upgrades)

:happy: Let me explain my viewpoint.

Loyalty missions and how they affect the capabilities of the squad.

Argument: How can doing a mission improve their inherent abilities?!

Answer: It distracts them. Garrus is an excellent leader, but he got his squad killed. Of course that'll make him doubt himself unless he gets some closure. Tali is a better hacker than anyone else, but what good is her exceptional hacking when all she can think about is the fact that she's on trial? Samara's daughter is out there raping people to death, and she knows her location - that would distract her and detract from her abilities.

Argument 2: But they're elites! Elites don't get distracted!!

Answer: Ever heard of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? It basically proves that even the soldiers who've "seen it all" are human and prone to weakness. I like the justification of how the Loyalty missions worked with clearing their heads. Doesn't mean it has to be that easy in the third game.

/Opinion disclaimer. 

And that explanation is crap. They didn'tseem to have any problems in missions before SM. Tehre is such a disconnect between loyalty, SM and death that it's mind-boggling.

It's not crap at all...Are you dense or something? The reason they didn't have any problems with the other missions was because they didn't require their full undistracted attention, the suicide mission however obviously did or everyone would have survived regardless of your choices.

:blink:
...
...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D:D


Fighting for your life doesn't require your full attention?
Really?
Dear Lord!

I have no idea by what kind of f****-up petty excuse for logic you're operating, but it certanly ain't from this world.

It was a longer way of saying "those missions where a cake-walk"...

There are varying degrees of difficulty, when you've got a company fighting a division or brigade (Suicide mission) you're pretty much screwed, but when a company is fighting 1-2 companies you stand a good chance.at winning (other missions).

Don't tell me you've never heard of ODDS before? So who's the one with the petty logic now?

edit: And this thread is killing me, I had to wade through 20 pages before I found my latest post again...

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Medhia Nox]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Not realistic enough; I would at least have expected the fruit merchant and the daughter to die.

Better yet - there's a plague, and they're all infected and dying. Oh, and a war - so real - and babies heads are rolling down the street - cause, that's what evil bads do! Oh, and there's an oppressive government - literally stealing candy from babies... OH, and a religious Inquisition cause everyone knows that religion is the meanest evil bad there IS!

So much real...

Your happy market bread story is such a fairy tale... that NEVER happens.

How about...
The man's daughter really IS dead, but he still pretends she's alive and gets her bread every week! he has several hundred moldy loaves in his house, collecting dust and ants.

====

Actually - there's something about that I really like.

It's the "several hundred moldy loaves" part.

Write a story about this idea - and publish it - or I promise you, I will shamelessly steal it. (because I'm Renegade like though - oh, I went there!) 

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well no ****, Shirlock. You know who won't be pleased by that ending? Me. Actually it's not the ending, it is the path to get there. I've said this many times, but I want a happy and upbeat ending. However I don't want the path there to be devoid of mortality. It is after all supposedly what separates us and the Reapers.

It wouldn't be devoid of mortality (note the chaotic genocide swirling about the galaxy and hundred of named and likable characters outside squadmates).  Having to sacrifice party members when you're still using them, however, is a pain in the ass.

Seriously.  Nothing chaps my ass more than having so-and-so leave the party when I JUST got his build EXACTLY how I wanted it.

"Wow, Party Member X!  You are a killing machine!"

"Yeah, cool, but I'm going to leave/die now."

"WHOA WHAT OH NO YOU DON'T."

"Sorry plot event lol."

And then I sit there in seething rage because I can't bring along the cool guy anymore.

[Medhia Nox]

@AdmiralCheez: That's more game's design - and I understand where you're coming from.

The concept of "levels" needs to be done away with - especially with NPCs.

If these characters do have a short life expectancy - then either 1) Give me their full power roster. 2) Give me all the points to point buy their full power roster.

This way  - they can be just how you envisioned them from the start - perhaps then the sting of their death in the middle of the game might not feel so brutal. (and it's not "brutal" in a visceral story sense - it's brutal in a frustrating sense of "what was the point of that?" )

=====

Better yet - ensemble casts. Get rid of NPC tag alongs.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:45 .

[crimzontearz]

LOL that reminds me of level 60 jenkins in NG+ equipped with a full heavy colossus X armor with immunity activated being killed by 2 puny geth drones in two seconds......

[JeffZero]

Let me rave with them.

[JeffZero]

/nods sagely and returns to mostly lurking this thread for another two days or so

[AdmiralCheez]

JeffZero wrote...

Let me rave with them.

This actually sort of needs to happen.

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Let me rave with them.

This actually sort of needs to happen.

Absolutely.

[Valdrane78]

Who are we raving at, I am in a rave mood.

[JeffZero]

Valdrane78 wrote...

Who are we raving at, I am in a rave mood.

Reaperaving.