4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince Zeel]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

Really?

Those kinds of posts are what the little red button in the top right corner is for.

Prince Zeel wrote...

Back, and I've learned how to conduct myself.

Ha.

Oh suck my big toe bro. I'm sorry my BS tolerance isn't exactly without boundaries. When some people act like morons, I'm going to correct them. You just need to stay out of my way.

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Attitudes like the OP's are a cancer in the heart of this industry, and the entertainment industry in general.

Yeah, f*ck you too, pal.

/dick mode

You using profanity in a personal-ish situation? Amusing, but unnecessary; I know you're above that kind of stuff.

Prince Zeel wrote...

Amusing.  your examples have what I call lackluster stories. especially shadow of the colossus, the dude just becomes a demon dude. SPOILER SPOILER I mean, unexpected yes, but, whats so stellar about that? What did I learn? not to to trust demons? Thanks shadow of the collosus, I already knew that.

And prince of persia, the first game? All he did was ****** through the game, meet some chick and then rewind time. And trust me, everyone saw that coming

SotC is a shining example of simple elegance and brilliance being used to tell a story in way unknown to most developers nowadays,

And the Prince of Persia you were referring to was hardly the first entry in the series. It does provide an interesting perspective into your world and way of thinking, though, so I am probably right in assuming you're so young that the previous gaming generation was when you entered gaming. Cute.

I wasn't talking about the very first 2D Prince game, though; 'twas the modern classic (and cult hit) from '08 I was referring to.

[wright1978]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

*snip*

See, that actaully sounds good.  I'd play the hell out of that, because it involves careful consideration of all the risks and benefits that come with each decision.  It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but you can still protect the things you care about and win in the end.

Nobody wants the game to be easy or completely free of all gloom and doom.  I mean, duh, it's a war story.

Yep i love his idea too. Gives the two things i want from ME choice & consequence.

[sp0ck 06]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

Really?

Those kinds of posts are what the little red button in the top right corner is for.

Prince Zeel wrote...

Back, and I've learned how to conduct myself.

Ha.

Oh suck my big toe bro. I'm sorry my BS tolerance isn't exactly without boundaries. When some people act like morons, I'm going to correct them. You just need to stay out of my way.

Lol keyboard gangster here.  Hows moms basement?:innocent:

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

You using profanity in a personal-ish situation? Amusing, but unnecessary; I know you're above that kind of stuff.

Only because you misrepresented my position, insulted me, and straw-manned the hell out of everything.  Dumb move, but I kind of get sick of you jumping to conclusions about my proposals instead of responding to what I actually said.

No one is asking for a depression-free, blue babies everywhere ending in this thread.  Nobody is asking for a game without tough decisions and emotional gravity.

Look.  I bolded the part with the point I was trying to make in the OP.  Please, go back and read it if you want me to debate you.

[Xewaka]

Dave of Canada wrote...
What I want:
Shepard arrives to Rannoch and has to deal with the Quarian and Geth fleets, you're busy solving their issues while the Reapers are devastating everything throughout the galaxy.

The Quarians offer a solution: Wipe out the Geth, infect them with a virus that wipes them off the face of the galaxy and you'd have the Quarian fleet available to you as quickly as possible which allows you to go on being a big goddamn hero as quickly as possible.

Consequences:
(GOOD) The Quarian fleet is gained, less time is spent arguing meaning there's less destruction in the galaxy.
(BAD) The Geth are destroyed, you lose Legion (he dies too).

The Geth offer a solution: Wipe out the Quarians, they don't want it but they understand that they're under constant threat and it's never going to end. They've got some weapons which they'd be capable of activating to destroy the Quarian flotilla, you just need to go out and activate them while they're being disassembled by Quarian engineers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) The Geth are recruited, less time is spent arguing meaning there's less destruction in the galaxy.
(BAD) The Quarians are destroyed, Tali is absolutely disgusted / furious at Shepard.

You realize there's a third solution: Through peace and negotiations, you'd be capable of making them understand each other and join together into your fleet and fight against the Reapers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Both fleets join your side.
(BAD) It took far much longer to negotiate the peace, more people have died throughout the galaxy.

With your new fleet, you fly toward Tuchanka where you left James Vega to discuss with Wrex and prepare the Krogan fleets. You arrive and discover the Reapers have intervened with their efforts, they're orbitally bombarding Tuchanka and preventing the Krogan from doing much of anything.

Wrex and Vega contact Shepard and tell them to run, Tuchanka isn't going to make it and Shepard needs his/her fleet and time to save the galaxy.

You decide to send your fleet in against the Reapers, you fight a brutal space and ground battle which results in a lot of destruction among your numbers.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Krogan join your fleet, Vega survives.
(BAD) Your fleet was almost destroyed, it took a long time to save the Krogan.

You decide to hold off your fleet, Vega says he understands and Wrex says it was an honor knowing you. You fly away as Tuchanka is being destroyed in the distance.

Consequences:
(GOOD) Your fleet is spared, more time is available to save everybody else.
(BAD) Wrex and the Krogan are destroyed, Vega is killed.

You arrive to another planet and depending on how "long" you've taken, the planet has:
Just started to be invaded, allowing you to possibly save more soldiers.
Has been under invasion for a while, you fight through indoctrinated soldiers but can save half of them.
The planet has been harvested, you fly past it's remains.

What I don't want:
You always arrive at the nick of time, your fleet's casualties mean nothing regardless of the invasion occuring around you and no matter how long it takes for you to save the galaxy it won't get any worse. The sacrifices are never personal.

I personally would like to see something like this. The freedom to choose is always tied to the freedom to accept the consequences of your choices. And considering the stakes of the conflict and the reported menace level presented by the Reapers, to be able to defeat them without real consequences for the galaxy would completely undermine their threat level.

[Arcadian Legend]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Okay, here comes my weird and creepy sleep-deprived wall of text of the week.

I was doing a little reflecting earlier about how I'm paragon like 75% of the time and no one ever dies in the Suicide Mission.  I asked myself, "Why the hell do I keep doing this?  It's unrealistic and stupid to save the galaxy by being a nice person, and coming out of a mission like that unscathed borders on ridiculous."

And then I realized, hey, it's because it's unrealistic that I do it in the first place.

If it's stupid and unrealistic to act like that in real life, then by the sacred law of the Internet brand me stupid.

[DiebytheSword]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh dude. Don't play the "my friends are family are drying from cancer" card. It's just cheap, bro.

I'm just saying that people should tone down that kind of language.  For me, seeing people mocking a disease that I or people I love have personally experienced hurts more than being called a fat b*tch or whatever.

I'm on a crusade against insensitivity and sometimes it gets me into trouble.

I have to agree, Cancer jokes are in extremely poor taste, as are your other peeves.  The place where that meme comes from isn't neccisarily prone to caring what others think while they offer the lulz though.

As far as any particular idea being a pathogen to an industry, close mindedness is a pathogen to intellegent thought in general.  Even if you don't agree, its healthy for someone else to have a differing a opinion.

[Prince Zeel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...


SotC is a shining example of simple elegance and brilliance being used to tell a story in way unknown to most developers nowadays,

Oh, I take it you love the razzle dazzle of pretending less is more.

Do not get me wrong, I loved SoTC, and i enjoy simple stories as well. Like Zelda. but don't come in here and tell me its the pinnacle of game plots. It's a different type of game, its story was fairly weak and further more, like I said, I DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING.

And the Prince of Persia you were referring to was hardly the first entry in the series. It does provide an interesting perspective into your world and way of thinking, though, so I am probably right in assuming you're so young that the previous gaming generation was when you entered gaming. Cute.

I wasn't talking about the very first 2D Prince game, though; 'twas the modern classic (and cult hit) from '08 I was referring to.

Excuse me? next time clarify if you dont want me to make an assumption. I wasn't talking about the 2d game either, i was talking Sands of Time. I guess, further proof, that the game is rather redundant, and unimpressive story wise.  next time, I'll consider everygame in existence before I assume. less' i be branded as "young". Were you by chance refering to PONG? 

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:28 .

[The Elder King]

Dave of Canada wrote...

snip

That would be great. I hopeto have something like that in ME3

Modifié par hhh89, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:27 .

[AdmiralCheez]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

If it's stupid and unrealistic to act like that in real life, then by the sacred law of the Internet brand me stupid.

We can be stupid together.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Prince Zeel wrote...
Do not get me wrong, I loved SoTC, and i enjoy simple stories as well. Like Zelda. but don't come in here and tell me its the pinnacle of game plots. It's a different type of game, its story was fairly weak and further more, like I said, I DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING.

Does a story have to have a moral/message in order to be good?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:29 .

[Aggie Punbot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Oh come on, don't fight. This is a good topic.

It's good until people come in here and say that my perspective is what's killing the entertainment industry, then bash everything I said in a purely combative manner without considering a middle ground or carefully pointing out why they disagree.

I especially hate being called a cancer when I'm still in mourning for real people that died of that disease.  I get mad at Parkinson's, gay, and bipolar jokes, too.

Sorry, Kaiser's been hitting a lot of my berserk buttons lately.

SERIOUS RESPONSE: Allowing player choice and a happier sort of ending does not compromise story integrity.  It's like saying the only way to make a story good is to murder the cast.

Things I've learned from the BS-N:

Engage the people who want to discuss a topic. Ignore the idiots that just want to fight. Try once (or maybe twice) to remind people of your actual position if they get it wrong and if they persist, ignore them too.

I've noticed that no one has addressed the fact that the people who want the 'kill everyone' endings are acting exactly like the hardcore homophobes (i.e. 'If I don't like a feature, NO ONE MUST BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, Muah ha ha!')

[DiebytheSword]

I also like Dave of Canada's idea. It meshes well with the choice of saving or sacrificing the council in ME1. You saved the council, but the price is and should be that Earth is less prepared for the arrival of the Reapers. ME2 lacked these kinds of calls with the sole exception of Zaeed Massani's loyalty quest, which I rather liked because of that. You can't completely win, you can save the people or satisfy Massani's lust for vengance, not both.

[Prince Zeel]

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...
Do not get me wrong, I loved SoTC, and i enjoy simple stories as well. Like Zelda. but don't come in here and tell me its the pinnacle of game plots. It's a different type of game, its story was fairly weak and further more, like I said, I DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING.

Does a story have to have a moral/message in order to be good?

Yes, I think so. if a story does not impart some sort of message on you. Is it really worth mentioning?

Think back to your kindergarden stories, with the picture books. some of these stories have stood the test of time. why? The message!

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Oh come on, don't fight. This is a good topic.

It's good until people come in here and say that my perspective is what's killing the entertainment industry, then bash everything I said in a purely combative manner without considering a middle ground or carefully pointing out why they disagree.

I especially hate being called a cancer when I'm still in mourning for real people that died of that disease.  I get mad at Parkinson's, gay, and bipolar jokes, too.

I didn't call you a cancer, I merely did so at the collective attitude shared by people unable to tell bad writing from its better equivalent.

Also, what's so problematic about jokes at someone's expense? I mean, it's not like I'm advocating jokes about terrible diseases or people dying, but there's nothing wrong with the occassional race, gender or sexuality joke, as long as it's within an appropriate context.

Sorry, Kaiser's been hitting a lot of my berserk buttons lately.

Please clarify?

SERIOUS RESPONSE: Allowing player choice and a happier sort of ending does not compromise story integrity.  It's like saying the only way to make a story good is to murder the cast.

It does, like someone said a few pages back: a winner takes all option automatically invalidates every single "lesser" option.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:41 .

[Prince Zeel]

THE CHICK wrote...


Things I've learned from the BS-N:

Engage the people who want to discuss a topic. Ignore the idiots that just want to fight. Try once (or maybe twice) to remind people of your actual position if they get it wrong and if they persist, ignore them too.

I've noticed that no one has addressed the fact that the people who want the 'kill everyone' endings are acting exactly like the hardcore homophobes (i.e. 'If I don't like a feature, NO ONE MUST BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, Muah ha ha!')

Jesus christ. How do I even start with you woman? I'm not for the "kill everyone ending" (Or any ending in particular) but i do think the Happy ending is kind of a cop out. lets try to appease everyone. and guess what, I'm not a HARDCORE HOMOPHOBE. good grief, watching too much MSNBC are we?

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:44 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

SERIOUS RESPONSE: Allowing player choice and a happier sort of ending does not compromise story integrity.  It's like saying the only way to make a story good is to murder the cast.

It does, like someone said a few pages back: a winner takes all option automatically invalidate every single "lesser" option.

No, it doesn't.

[AdmiralCheez]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Engage the people who want to discuss a topic. Ignore the idiots that just want to fight. Try once (or maybe twice) to remind people of your actual position if they get it wrong and if they persist, ignore them too.

Usually, I do that.  But I respect Kaiser for his usual intelligence and well thought-out opinions.  He usually doesn't just slap me in the face.

I've noticed that no one has addressed the fact that the people who want the 'kill everyone' endings are acting exactly like the hardcore homophobes (i.e. 'If I don't like a feature, NO ONE MUST BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, Muah ha ha!')

Wait... you're right!

[Prince Zeel]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

SERIOUS RESPONSE: Allowing player choice and a happier sort of ending does not compromise story integrity.  It's like saying the only way to make a story good is to murder the cast.

It does, like someone said a few pages back: a winner takes all option automatically invalidate every single "lesser" option.

No, it doesn't.

Are you daft? If theres a Winner ending then, immediately I feel like i lost no matter what ending I get. Instead of feeling like my Sheppard has concluded his story. I feel like I did something wrong. The exact opposite of what an RPG strives for. It's suppose to be a story driven game and if theres a right and wrong ending then it's more about scoring points.

Go play God of war if you want some bullsht scoring points crap.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...
Do not get me wrong, I loved SoTC, and i enjoy simple stories as well. Like Zelda. but don't come in here and tell me its the pinnacle of game plots. It's a different type of game, its story was fairly weak and further more, like I said, I DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING.

Does a story have to have a moral/message in order to be good?

Yes, I think so. if a story does not impart some sort of message on you. Is it really worth mentioning?

Think back to your kindergarden stories, with the picture books. some of these stories have stood the test of time. why? The message!

I would say the emotional journey the story brings you on is what makes it good. I don't need to be preached to in order to feel a story is worthwhile.

[KBomb]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It does, like someone said a few pages back: a winner takes all option automatically invalidatea every single "lesser" option.

No, it doesn't.

[Prince Zeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...


Things I've learned from the BS-N:

Engage the people who want to discuss a topic. Ignore the idiots that just want to fight. Try once (or maybe twice) to remind people of your actual position if they get it wrong and if they persist, ignore them too.

I've noticed that no one has addressed the fact that the people who want the 'kill everyone' endings are acting exactly like the hardcore homophobes (i.e. 'If I don't like a feature, NO ONE MUST BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, Muah ha ha!')

Jesus christ. How do I even start with you woman? I'm not for the "kill everyone ending" (Or any ending in particular) but i do think the Happy ending is kind of a cop out. lets try to appease everyone. and guess what, I'm not a HARDCORE HOMOPHOBE. good grief, watching too much MSNBC are we?

Good grief, man, at least get your quoting right.

Why don't you go back to wanking off to final fantasy characters. 
How's that for quoting?

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[DiebytheSword]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...
Do not get me wrong, I loved SoTC, and i enjoy simple stories as well. Like Zelda. but don't come in here and tell me its the pinnacle of game plots. It's a different type of game, its story was fairly weak and further more, like I said, I DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING.

Does a story have to have a moral/message in order to be good?

Yes, I think so. if a story does not impart some sort of message on you. Is it really worth mentioning?

Think back to your kindergarden stories, with the picture books. some of these stories have stood the test of time. why? The message!

I don't think its true that you have to have a moral or message imparted every time for a story to stand the test.  What you are specifically talking about is a parable.  Not every story is one.  Not every good story is a parable, but every parable is usually a good story.  I would say that in order for a story to build some sort or rapport between you and the author, that is, a sharing of ideas, it must have some sort of resonance with you.  You seek resonance with the tale through a strong message, moral or not.  Thus a tale of stoic sacrifice wherein a namelss protagonist saves someone he cares deeply about does not resonate with you within the framework of SotC.

Mass Effect resonates with me on many levels, which is why I find it so engaging.  But it is a polar opposite to the story telling in SotC.  It has many themes, many plot threads, and the plot is advanced through dialogue as well as action.  So while you did not resonate with SotC, it does not mean that it did not have themes that could resonate with the viewer/participant, just themes that did not resonate with you.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:41 .