4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Athayniel]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The whole mechanics, reasoning and logic behind it was attrocious.
Besides, how many of the players that suffered loses are casuals or first-time RPG plaers?

I'm not disagreeing with this. And Cheez specifically states that it was obvious to hardcore players not casuals or first-time RPG players who as you point out are likely the source of a great deal of that 13-14% death toll. Mind you I know a lot of hardcore RPG players who use the SM mechanics to the benefit of their stories so they can create extra playthroughs to take into ME3 with varying degrees of carnage. That is *only* possible because the deaths are entirely optional.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

But they get another varialbe to play with.

You continue to want to force the squad memeber death as a problem loss, instead or realising you get other problems/choices.
You don't get any less variables.

How I choose to deal with a non-choice in a game does not count as a choice within the game itself.

SH*T TALKED TO LOTION AGAIN.

Must be a secret internet crush.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 octobre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Athayniel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Did you have Kasumi?

Because the little snitch drops your HTL score.

Mordin is also extremely squishy in the HtL, which is why he is known as the ideal choice for crew escort.

[Wulfram]

Athayniel wrote...

The difference being that the proponents of the OP never claim the moral high ground, freely admit that it is a preference and have no wish to deny anyone else their own desire for "Drama!". Those in favour of forced squadmate deaths claim it's necessary for a better story and that their enjoyment will be affected by the mere existence of endings which do not include them. Take from that what you will.

They claim the moral high ground by presenting getting exactly what they want as a compromise, and thus painting those who don't find that the "compromise" addresses their concerns as unreasonable.

Just like you're doing here

[Athayniel]

cacharadon wrote...

*edit, y u no have spellcheck, bioware

Firefox has a builtin spellchecker, can anyone confirm if Chrome or IE or Opera have the same?

[Arcadian Legend]

Chrome has a spellchecker.

[CaptainZaysh]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ultimately, no side in this has some kind of moral high ground over the other, it's all about preferred styles of gameplay. So the wisest choice for Bioware would be to take the most popular option. Which so far seems to be giving the possibility of all squadmates surviving, and not dicking people over by killing off whomever's closest to them, which I hope does indeed come true.

Ugh.  Writing by committee?

[Athayniel]

Wulfram wrote...

They claim the moral high ground by presenting getting exactly what they want as a compromise, and thus painting those who don't find that the "compromise" addresses their concerns as unreasonable.

Just like you're doing here

Hmmm... except their "compromise" is "I get everything I want and you get to see your squaddies die everytime you play ME3" and my compromise is "I get playthroughs with no squadmate deaths and you get playthroughs where they could all die gloriously in battle". Yeah... I'm going to tell them to sit and spin on their "compromise".

[Notlikeyoucare]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ultimately, no side in this has some kind of moral high ground over the other, it's all about preferred styles of gameplay. So the wisest choice for Bioware would be to take the most popular option. Which so far seems to be giving the possibility of all squadmates surviving, and not dicking people over by killing off whomever's closest to them, which I hope does indeed come true.

So because I liked Kreia in KOTOR II I was dicked over when she died? The same could be said of any character in any plot that I liked?

[Notlikeyoucare]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ultimately, no side in this has some kind of moral high ground over the other, it's all about preferred styles of gameplay. So the wisest choice for Bioware would be to take the most popular option. Which so far seems to be giving the possibility of all squadmates surviving, and not dicking people over by killing off whomever's closest to them, which I hope does indeed come true.

Ugh.  Writing by committee?

Maybe they should have another "like" poll on Facebook?

[AdmiralCheez]

Athayniel wrote...

Mordin is also extremely squishy in the HtL, which is why he is known as the ideal choice for crew escort.

I am rapidly plunging this thread into off-topic hell yet again, but my escort is pretty much always Tali.  Her score is basically the same as Mordin's even though her death isn't as high priority.  Originally, I sent her back because she was of little use to me in a level with no synthetics, but then my head!canon did crazy things and now I won't have it any other way.

See, on Freedom's Progress, her squad ran ahead of her, she couldn't stop them, and they died.

On Haestrom, even more died trying to protect her, and Shep needed to rescue her wimpy purple ass.

On her loyalty mission, her father and his team were slaughtered, partially out of his desire to do something good on her behalf, and she wasn't there to protect him and feels partially responsible for helping him in his endeavor.

So by making her the escort, she proves to herself and everyone else that she is a strong fighter capable of protecting herself as well as others.  It's redemption for all the times she failed to do so, even if it wasn't entirely her fault.

F*ck yeah, extreme roleplaying.

[CaptainZaysh]

Athayniel wrote...

Hmmm... except their "compromise" is "I get everything I want and you get to see your squaddies die everytime you play ME3" and my compromise is "I get playthroughs with no squadmate deaths and you get playthroughs where they could all die gloriously in battle". Yeah... I'm going to tell them to sit and spin on their "compromise".

But don't you think a war story in which only redshirts die is sort of missing the entire point of war?

[Athayniel]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Ugh.  Writing by committee?

What... you thought Mass Effect was written by one person?

[CaptainZaysh]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ultimately, no side in this has some kind of moral high ground over the other, it's all about preferred styles of gameplay. So the wisest choice for Bioware would be to take the most popular option. Which so far seems to be giving the possibility of all squadmates surviving, and not dicking people over by killing off whomever's closest to them, which I hope does indeed come true.

Ugh.  Writing by committee?

Maybe they should have another "like" poll on Facebook?

[Icinix]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I know it's silly to think I can have sunshine and bunnies in the face of a galactic apocalypse, but I want 'em anyway.  I want to keep playing pretend, to screw the rules and do the impossible, to protect the people I care about in a way I can't protect them in real life.

Its exactly the reason why I play video games.


Yeah - real life sucks. But why would I play a game that makes me feel bad, when I'm part of that world every second when I'm not playing?

Even if its fantasy, its nice to think that the best things can come about from doing the right things all the time.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wulfram wrote...

They claim the moral high ground by presenting getting exactly what they want as a compromise, and thus painting those who don't find that the "compromise" addresses their concerns as unreasonable.

Just like you're doing here.

Actually, I said repeatedly that I'd be okay with squadmate deaths so long as the same person, regardless of who they are, doesn't die every single damn time.  I don't care if it's my least favorite character, even.  I just find that kind of thing annoying.

And I'm the OP, so there.

[CaptainZaysh]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I am rapidly plunging this thread into off-topic hell yet again, but my escort is pretty much always Tali.  Her score is basically the same as Mordin's even though her death isn't as high priority.  Originally, I sent her back because she was of little use to me in a level with no synthetics, but then my head!canon did crazy things and now I won't have it any other way.

See, on Freedom's Progress, her squad ran ahead of her, she couldn't stop them, and they died.

On Haestrom, even more died trying to protect her, and Shep needed to rescue her wimpy purple ass.

On her loyalty mission, her father and his team were slaughtered, partially out of his desire to do something good on her behalf, and she wasn't there to protect him and feels partially responsible for helping him in his endeavor.

So by making her the escort, she proves to herself and everyone else that she is a strong fighter capable of protecting herself as well as others.  It's redemption for all the times she failed to do so, even if it wasn't entirely her fault.

F*ck yeah, extreme roleplaying.

Also she can help with the repairs.

[Athayniel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

Mordin is also extremely squishy in the HtL, which is why he is known as the ideal choice for crew escort.

I am rapidly plunging this thread into off-topic hell yet again, but my escort is pretty much always Tali.  Her score is basically the same as Mordin's even though her death isn't as high priority.  Originally, I sent her back because she was of little use to me in a level with no synthetics, but then my head!canon did crazy things and now I won't have it any other way.

See, on Freedom's Progress, her squad ran ahead of her, she couldn't stop them, and they died.

On Haestrom, even more died trying to protect her, and Shep needed to rescue her wimpy purple ass.

The colour of Tali's ass is unconfirmed at this time. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

On her loyalty mission, her father and his team were slaughtered, partially out of his desire to do something good on her behalf, and she wasn't there to protect him and feels partially responsible for helping him in his endeavor.

So by making her the escort, she proves to herself and everyone else that she is a strong fighter capable of protecting herself as well as others.  It's redemption for all the times she failed to do so, even if it wasn't entirely her fault.

F*ck yeah, extreme roleplaying.

Nice

[Athayniel]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

But don't you think a war story in which only redshirts die is sort of missing the entire point of war?

I don't consider the billions of civilians about to meet their end to be redshirts. 'Redshirt' implies at least some capability or expectation of facing danger. It certainly applies to the soldiers and crew of the warships we all know are going to be shredded into tiny strips of metal, but it doesn't apply to the civilians.

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

Mordin is also extremely squishy in the HtL, which is why he is known as the ideal choice for crew escort.

I am rapidly plunging this thread into off-topic hell yet again, but my escort is pretty much always Tali.  Her score is basically the same as Mordin's even though her death isn't as high priority.  Originally, I sent her back because she was of little use to me in a level with no synthetics, but then my head!canon did crazy things and now I won't have it any other way.

See, on Freedom's Progress, her squad ran ahead of her, she couldn't stop them, and they died.

On Haestrom, even more died trying to protect her, and Shep needed to rescue her wimpy purple ass.

On her loyalty mission, her father and his team were slaughtered, partially out of his desire to do something good on her behalf, and she wasn't there to protect him and feels partially responsible for helping him in his endeavor.

So by making her the escort, she proves to herself and everyone else that she is a strong fighter capable of protecting herself as well as others.  It's redemption for all the times she failed to do so, even if it wasn't entirely her fault.

F*ck yeah, extreme roleplaying.

I never though of that, that way.

[Wulfram]

Athayniel wrote...

Hmmm... except their "compromise" is "I get everything I want and you get to see your squaddies die everytime you play ME3" and my compromise is "I get playthroughs with no squadmate deaths and you get playthroughs where they could all die gloriously in battle". Yeah... I'm going to tell them to sit and spin on their "compromise".

At the risk of sounding like a crazy mage, the point I'm making is that there is no compromise.  One side thinks that squadmate deaths should be unavoidable, the other disagrees.

@AdmiralCheez:  I'm glad to hear you've joined the dark side.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:07 .

[CroGamer002]

Killing someone just for the sake of drama is lazy writing.

[Someone With Mass]

Athayniel wrote...

I got this Cheez...

Considering the game beat you over the head with the need to do loyalty missions by constantly reminding you that your squadmates needed to have their heads in the game, then yes, to a moderately hardcore player as Cheez describes the link between the LMs and survivability was obvious.

Especially when the game is smacking you over the head with the fact that you need a tech expert and then gives you a list with Tali on the top of it.

Gee, I wonder who I should choose...

[CaptainZaysh]

Athayniel wrote...

I don't consider the billions of civilians about to meet their end to be redshirts. 'Redshirt' implies at least some capability or expectation of facing danger. It certainly applies to the soldiers and crew of the warships we all know are going to be shredded into tiny strips of metal, but it doesn't apply to the civilians.

Well, whatever you want to call them.  Redshirts, extras, whatever.  Don't you think a credible war story has to confront the reality of casualties, and the loss of friends on the battlefield?

[Someone With Mass]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

Chrome has a spellchecker.

Yep. Just use the BBCode and it'll be running.