4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcadian Legend]

jreezy wrote...

DarkRiku7 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I believe latter refers to Dean being rather obnoxiously argumentative. Also, what the bloody hell are you people on about? I was barely away for a day

Dean thinks me and Eternal are women due to our 'androgynous' avvies. I don't think he seriously thinks that though. Somehow, in some twisted way I'm sure this is related to the overall thread. XD

EDIT

What's next? He strentghens his point by noticing we are bronies? Oh, crap...

This is kind of off topic but I don't think you guys' avatars are "androgynous". Lightning looks like a woman, not both...To me anyway.

Fun fact: Light USED to look mannish during development, but then they redid her design.

[Killjoy Cutter]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm pissed off every time I read a comment that someone in the squad has to die for the game to be "realistic", and that the best way to do this is to inject some pathetic Hollywood formula writing.

Again, you're saying broad things that mean little. What is "pathetic Hollywood formula writing"?

Start digging into how a lot of scripts for TV shows and movies are written. 

Hint:  this "someone close to the hero needs to die here for impact" crap is classic formula writing.  

Again, no one is talking about someone dying "for impact." Death for REALISM (or perhaps a better phrase would be LESS suspension of disbelief) is what we want.

Sure sounds like "death for impact" from here.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jreezy wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Again, no one is talking about someone dying "for impact." Death for REALISM (or perhaps a better phrase would be LESS suspension of disbelief) is what we want.

Sure sounds like "death for impact" from here.

You mean you read what he wrote and twisted within your mind to sound like something you disagree with to argue some more? 

No.

I was refering to the conversation on the thread, not just to the one sentence I was responding to.  If that's not clear by now, go re-read the thread.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:21 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sure sounds like "death for impact" from here.

Have you ever read a book before? Why do the people in the book die?

Gee, I hope I've read a book before, or all these bookshelves behind me are wasted space... 


As for your other question, it depends.  Sometimes, it's necessary to the story the writer is trying to tell.  Sometimes, it's because the writer was being formulaic, or being an arse.

[Arcadian Legend]

This is a comparison pic. The left is the pre redesign Light, the right is the finished one.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I'm pissed off every time I read a comment that someone in the squad has to die for the game to be "realistic", and that the best way to do this is to inject some pathetic Hollywood formula writing.

Again, you're saying broad things that mean little. What is "pathetic Hollywood formula writing"?

Start digging into how a lot of scripts for TV shows and movies are written. 

Hint:  this "someone close to the hero needs to die here for impact" crap is classic formula writing.  

Maybe that's because it's effective?

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm
pissed off every time I read a comment that someone in the squad has to
die for the game to be "realistic", and that the best way to do this is
to inject some pathetic Hollywood formula writing.

You're right--it's not realistic and it IS pretty Hollywood.

I
think the  problem here is varying degrees of empathy.  I get
misty-eyed playing Overlord and Tali's loyalty mission, but when an
important character dies, I'm mostly like "that was dumb."  There's
always exceptions to the rule--when Dumbledore and Wash bit it in Half-Blood Prince and Serenity
respectively, I emoted all over the place.  Dumbledore not because of
the death itself but the whole wand-raising afterwards, Wash because it
came WAY THE HELL OUT OF NOWHERE.

Some people, however, could
care less when a non-important NPC bites it.  I find this hard to
believe--when the nameless guy gets impaled on Eden Prime and Kate
Bowman's brother/the hostages die in BDtS, I still wince.  I got upset
watching Feron and that guy on Purgatory getting tortured.  When Saren
shoots himself, the Destiny Ascension blows up, various people get shot
on loyalty missions... yikes.

I think the key is presentation. 
In order for a death to be effective, the actual dying part has to be
realistic (no corny, drawn-out scenes a la Benezia where she basically
just read her lines and dropped with no obvious reason for her death
other than "hey, you beat the boss") or sharply contrast with the
previous mood (Wash does awesome things, "I am a leaf on the wind," then
STEEL BEAM OUT OF F*CKING NOWHERE).  The characters involved should
also show powerful, appropriate emotions to reinforce the event either
during or after it happens (everyone raising their wands after
Dumbledore dies).

So it's not so much who dies, but how they die,
how it's presented, and how characters react to it.  Theoretically,
extreme emotional power can be obtained without ever touching
squadmates.

As for realism, well yes all of the deaths in mass effect weren't, first of they were all forced/fixed (even though you could choose who/whether or not to send to the chopping block) and yes presentation- rather jarring to see bullet sponges die from a glowing orb that doesn't seem to do anything or a stomach clutch with no visible injury. Sure for gameplay we can' have one hit ko squamates, but they justify that with shields and such, why not have some consistency with cutscenes? Is it really that bad to have cutscenes where you unload a whole clip into people? That doesn't mean it's realistic for everyone to live through a "suicide mission" either though, but rather, the deaths should come from the reason it's a suicide mission, it's dangerous. So it should still be extremely difficult but certainly not impossible to avoid everyone being shot/blown up. How about simply removing the ability to wake up fallen squadmates using your omnitool alarm?

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:24 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

This is a comparison pic. The left is the pre redesign Light, the right is the finished one.

Neither one looks "mannish". 

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Is either realistic if you want to go this route? You realize what Shepard is up against on a daily basis, right? If he is fighting professional killers with a small team, often behind enemy lines, then he's going to loose people most likely. So which is more realistic?

Just because something is likely does not mean it is guaranteed to happen.  And remember, Shep's made a career out of doing incredibly unrealistic things.  While "no required squadmate deaths" would be unlikely in real-life terms, it would be perfectly consistent with what has happened in Mass Effect so far.

There is nothing "unrealistic" about a group of six people managing to survive several high-risk situations.  If we heard about a group of Navy Seals that completed fourteen missions with zero casualties in hostile territory, we wouldn't be crying "UNREALISTIC," but "Damn, those guys are crazy-good at what they do and very lucky.  Give those kids medals."

Hollywood or not, who cares? You people love cliche garbage anyway.

Your hostility is unnecessary and will not compel people to agree with you.

No, you are completely clueless.

No really, you're not a very empathetic person.

[Sgt Stryker]

jreezy wrote...

DarkRiku7 wrote...

This is a comparison pic. The left is the pre redesign Light, the right is the finished one.

<snip>

So...She always looked like a woman then.

I dunno, the one on the left looks a little David Bowie-ish.

[Cobra's_back]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...
If you mean compromise would be Shepard dies to save the team yes. I agree. I’ll wait for everyone to tell me how it ends so I don’t have to waste my time. If it looks like something I want to play after you tell me about it I’ll play. If another game gives better choice I’ll pick that. These games are just fantasy. It’s not real life. If I want real life there are some excellent books out there that give us a better real life story. I couldn’t put down the book “The Devil we Know” by Robert Bear or the jewel “A Bright Shining Lie John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam” by Neil Sheehan.
Nothing in Mass Effect is real. Battles, conflicts and love interest are simplified and sometimes funny but not real. It’s still entertaining. However, I’m not big on slipping pretend real quota death to assimilate life. It doesn’t make sense when everything else is pure fantasy. How many people really thought LI aliens were a real thing?? When I saw Frogman I thought of Mel Brooks “Young Frankenstein”. I had to LOL thinking of Madeline Kahn’s expression if Frogman could lick his eyebrows with his tongue. Please, it is way too funny. Mankind still has issues with race and gender preference and Space is the place for out of your species sex.
 

maybe on the surface, but that's like saying the work of an artist is "just paint." If you look deeper at Mass Effect, you can see that it's trying to challange us, with things like the Genophage, or the Rachni, or the Quarians vs. Geth. Mass Effect WANTS to be more than just entertainment.

The depth of the human spirit its beauty and its cruelty cannot be depicted thoroughly in a game. To me some of the stuff is cheap entertainment especially the LIs. I do appreciate your candor. If you run into a game you think is really good at depicting life no LIs needed float me the title.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Just because something is likely does not mean it is guaranteed to happen.  And remember, Shep's made a career out of doing incredibly unrealistic things.

Yeah, but it is starting to break my suspension of disbelief. This might be a moot issue if the suicide mission hadn't been such a let-down. Now I want to be paid back for that. The suicide mission was bloodless, so now I want blood.

Let's hope Shepard and his team don't ride in any helicopters.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

No really, you're not a very empathetic person.

How can you read one of my anti-geth posts and feel that way? You're the one who casually writes off the quarian genocide. I doubt you've thought about it as much as I have or that you understand just how large it was.

My passion comes from empathy. Otherwise I just wouldn't care enough to argue about it.

In lieu of reading my posts... I don't see why you two are at a stalemate, why not make it possible, but simply rather diifcult, as the name suggests? Best of both worlds.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:36 .

[xXRevan0515Xx]

Great thread Sir Cheez, I play Mass Effect for many of the same reasons and I also feel that irrational draw for virtual grandeur as Shep...People say that games aren't real and it's a waste of time, but that sounds fairly close to what my opinion on my government means as well. The individual has no power in today's society unless they take matters into their own hands, but most would prefer a comfortable life of ignorance. Intelligence is both a blessing and a curse....Respect to ya Cheez

[AdmiralCheez]

jreezy wrote...

Anyway...I have no problem with someone dying for less suspension of disbelief. While Mass Effect's setting is unrealistic it is still grounded in some realism. In a war like the one that will be upon us in Mass Effect 3 it isn't believable for Shepard to be able to save every squadmate, or anyone really, from death.

Looking at it from a distance, you are right, but if you are talking about immersion and suspension of disbelief, I think you are wrong.  Nothing takes me out of the moment faster than a forced death.  Emphasis on forced.

For example, Virmire.  When suddenly you have to split the team, it's obvious they are setting up for a decision later.  And then when both come under attack and the dialogue wheel pops up with your options, it's like the screen is flashing HEY IT'S TIME FOR A BIG, EMOTIONAL DECISION.  I was NOT thinking, "oh crap, what do I do?" but "boy, the forced drama here couldn't be any more obvious."

You cannot simply analyze a story on its plot points alone.  Otherwise pretty much anything looks completely ridiculous.  For example, just LIST the stuff that happens in ME1.  More than likely, you will realize how dumb it sounds out of context.

[Pockles]

ghostbusters101 wrote...
The depth of the human spirit its beauty and its cruelty cannot be depicted thoroughly in a game. To me some of the stuff is cheap entertainment especially the LIs. I do appreciate your candor. If you run into a game you think is really good at depicting life no LIs needed float me the title.

I think you're overestimating the depth of most people's personalities. You're also being very condescending about it.