4309 réponses à ce sujet

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
That would just result in everyone playing on Casual, or constantly reloading. Putting character deaths directly into the gameplay is a bad idea (although they did do it with Kal'Reegar).

Kal is easy to handle if you have the Cain. Just don't tell him to get down, nuke the Colossus and mop up. 

I'm not sure how you managed to get so many heavy weapon ammo upgrades so early; I've never had the Cain at that point (if I did, it sure would be useful against the Praetorian). The point, though, was that whether a character dies or not should never be dependant on how Shepard is performing during in-game combat (for the record, Kal'Reegar is alive in all my games).

I'm not sure you made that point, you only brought up that Kal'Reegar used that "system"? I don't see why you're against it though, that would give you sense of acomplishment and indicate how well you did, instead of the metagaming choices we now have where I feel more like I'm directing a movie.

Because if, say, Garrus died during a firefight, I (and many other players I'm sure) would just reload our last save to make him alive again. Or end up playing on casual in order to avoid it ever happening. Any deaths should depend solely on choices made, not because "Tali got stomped by a mech during a battle and is now forever dead".

That was simply a joke about how Shepard seemed able to remotely wake people. Of course they could be made to die only in special circumstances. The vents section of the suicide mission is something like that, except- you can't continue if they die (I think) and for some reason that makes no sense at all, and this is what I meant by irritating fixed deaths- if you don't pick garrus or the other two to lead a collector flings poop at them and they die.

[sorentoft]

How about we just kill Thane and call it a job well done?

[Aggie Punbot]

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Any post you've ever written about it that I've seen.

Yeah, like the one I just made, sure.  TOTALLY hate quarians, TOTALLY put all the blame on them, TOTALLY don't feel sorry for them at all.  Nope nope nope.

1.) The geth did not suffer because they can't suffer. They don't have emotions.

Then I'm sure they have a religious impulse because that sort of thing is totally logical... *facedesk*

2.) Attributing blame implies someone did something wrong. The quarians did nothing wrong.

The quarians tried to get get the geth as smart as possible without them actually being self-aware, ignored all the wrong variables, and panicked when their risky behavior resulted in geth sapience: a series of small mistakes and oversights snowballing into one big clusterf*ck.  That counts as doin' it wrong.  It was unintentional and never malicious in intent, but they could have avoided the whole ordeal had they been more careful.  Wax wings and all that.  I bear them no ill will for it, however.  It's not like I think they're stupid or anything, just... surprisingly human.  It's hard not to understand why they are the way they are and how they must feel about it.

Empathy in no way implies politeness nor does understanding your point of view imply I should adopt it. I understand it, I empathize, and it makes me rather dislike your perspective on it. I see it for the junk that it is.

If you have a full understanding of me, you should realize that how I think and feel is not "junk."  I certainly don't think you're junk, just unnecessarily hostile and single-minded.  Hell, I get that way, too sometimes.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:25 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

sorentoft wrote...

How about we just kill Thane and call it a job well done?

I would call that a lose-lose situation. Emos don't get their emoseanal impak, cause it's not so sad, and the others will complain that someone still died.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:26 .

[AdmiralCheez]

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Haha, no.  I thought it would die before it hit 30.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this
topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in
length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Of which 70 are on-topic.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:27 .

[Hathur]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Haha, no.  I thought it would die before it hit 30.

Don't be modest, you knew it would easily reach 100+. 

Cheez doesn't do anything half-assed.... when she does something, she uses her whole ass!

.................. wait!.... No, that's not how I meant it! 

[sorentoft]

Hathur wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Haha, no.  I thought it would die before it hit 30.

Cheez doesn't do anything half-assed.... when she does something, she uses her whole ass!

I have a really hard time picturing what you would need a half ass for anyway.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Hathur wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Haha, no.  I thought it would die before it hit 30.

Don't be modest, you knew it would easily reach 100+. 

Cheez doesn't do anything half-assed.... when she does something, she uses her whole ass!

.................. wait!.... No, that's not how I meant it! 

Hmm don't think you can really do anything with half an arse. One-handed clap?

[howl3d]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Hathur wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

So AdmiralCheez, when you made this topic did you have any idea it would grow to be over 150 pages in length? *shoves microphone in her face*

Haha, no.  I thought it would die before it hit 30.

Cheez doesn't do anything half-assed.... when she does something, she uses her whole ass!

I have a really hard time picturing what you would need a half ass for anyway.

It would certainly make sitting down uncomfortable.

you could get a custom made  chair or something

[AdmiralCheez]

jreezy wrote...

Good points. The big problem that Mass Effect has definitely had is that the major decisions have been too obvious. My reaction to Virmire when I first played was probably a mix of "oh crap, what do I do?" and "boy, the forced drama here couldn't be more obvious." BioWare needs to do a better job of disguising the big decisions. How they do this I'm not quite sure at this time.

You know what I think the best decision in ME was?  Legion's loyalty mission.  I have to think about it for like an hour every damn time.  Why is it good?  Probably because neither decision is clearly "right," and what you'll get out of either isn't exactly clear.  Virmire was lame because it was too clear in its ramifications and didn't really have many risks and benefits attached: do you want Ashley to die or do you want Kaidan to die?  And that was it.  But with the heretics, you have to choose between genocide and mass brainwashing, and you don't know how either will play out.  While you had some information, it wasn't clear exactly what you were about to do or what its effects would be.  Both options had unpleasant moral implications, and while brainwashing had possible benefits attached, it was a massive risk.  I have a serious love-hate relationship with that decision.

I don't think there's any way to get around the Virmire situation being contrived.  Perhaps if it was buried better, there were more variables involved, and the buildup was more subtle...

Also, the "Sorry, Ask/Kaidan, I had to make a choice" line was total BS.  Maybe a "hold out as long as you can, I'll be back for you, too" would have been better, and then a moment of ALMOST MAKES IT BUT SUDDENLY PWN'T BY GETH/BOMB GOING OFF/ETC to add more emotion and adrenaline.  The presentation was too sterile.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Good points. The big problem that Mass Effect has definitely had is that the major decisions have been too obvious. My reaction to Virmire when I first played was probably a mix of "oh crap, what do I do?" and "boy, the forced drama here couldn't be more obvious." BioWare needs to do a better job of disguising the big decisions. How they do this I'm not quite sure at this time.

You know what I think the best decision in ME was?  Legion's loyalty mission.  I have to think about it for like an hour every damn time.  Why is it good?  Probably because neither decision is clearly "right," and what you'll get out of either isn't exactly clear.  Virmire was lame because it was too clear in its ramifications and didn't really have many risks and benefits attached: do you want Ashley to die or do you want Kaidan to die?  And that was it.  But with the heretics, you have to choose between genocide and mass brainwashing, and you don't know how either will play out.  While you had some information, it wasn't clear exactly what you were about to do or what its effects would be.  Both options had unpleasant moral implications, and while brainwashing had possible benefits attached, it was a massive risk.  I have a serious love-hate relationship with that decision.

I don't think there's any way to get around the Virmire situation being contrived.  Perhaps if it was buried better, there were more variables involved, and the buildup was more subtle...

Also, the "Sorry, Ask/Kaidan, I had to make a choice" line was total BS.  Maybe a "hold out as long as you can, I'll be back for you, too" would have been better, and then a moment of ALMOST MAKES IT BUT SUDDENLY PWN'T BY GETH/BOMB GOING OFF/ETC to add more emotion and adrenaline.  The presentation was too sterile.

Yep it was a terrible choice, it was such a hard decision to make, but only because it was so empty there's no reason to pick one over the other you may as well flip a coin.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Athayniel wrote...
*SNIP*

I told you what I want, but you don't read very well.

You ignore all issues everoyne brings up and continue totting the party line.
No matter how many times you repaet that X is a compromise - unless the other side agree, it is not.
And the other side may not agree for various reasons - either it's really not a compromise at all, it's not workable, or it's not defined or something else.

And if you want to take the liberty to decide what  Iwant for me and what is a compromise, then I'll do the same for you.

[sorentoft]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Good points. The big problem that Mass Effect has definitely had is that the major decisions have been too obvious. My reaction to Virmire when I first played was probably a mix of "oh crap, what do I do?" and "boy, the forced drama here couldn't be more obvious." BioWare needs to do a better job of disguising the big decisions. How they do this I'm not quite sure at this time.

You know what I think the best decision in ME was?  Legion's loyalty mission.  I have to think about it for like an hour every damn time.  Why is it good?  Probably because neither decision is clearly "right," and what you'll get out of either isn't exactly clear.  Virmire was lame because it was too clear in its ramifications and didn't really have many risks and benefits attached: do you want Ashley to die or do you want Kaidan to die?  And that was it.  But with the heretics, you have to choose between genocide and mass brainwashing, and you don't know how either will play out.  While you had some information, it wasn't clear exactly what you were about to do or what its effects would be.  Both options had unpleasant moral implications, and while brainwashing had possible benefits attached, it was a massive risk.  I have a serious love-hate relationship with that decision.

I don't think there's any way to get around the Virmire situation being contrived.  Perhaps if it was buried better, there were more variables involved, and the buildup was more subtle...

Also, the "Sorry, Ask/Kaidan, I had to make a choice" line was total BS.  Maybe a "hold out as long as you can, I'll be back for you, too" would have been better, and then a moment of ALMOST MAKES IT BUT SUDDENLY PWN'T BY GETH/BOMB GOING OFF/ETC to add more emotion and adrenaline.  The presentation was too sterile.

Yep it was a terrible choice, it was such a hard decision to make, but only because it was so empty there's no reason to pick one over the other you may as well flip a coin.

When did that L2 ever stand a chance to Ashley? I mean, yeah. Pointless waste of character.

Modifié par sorentoft, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:45 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's an entirely new thing from you.

I believe your opinion of me is coloring your perception of my past posts.  I did, for example, say I liked quarians not too long ago, and have railed on people for calling them stupid.

Actually the way Legion explains it, it kind of is. Especially the Heretics. The Reapers ARE more advanced machines and doing what they want to gain their knowledge is logical.

As logical beings, they should be able to see right away that saying prayers and building shrines doesn't work.

You can blame a handful of PEOPLE for that, not the entire species.

True.  Oddly, however, the game never presents it as such.  The quarians always speak of the event in terms of "we/our ancestors."  Specific names are never mentioned, specific groups never singled out.  They've adoped it as part of their racial identity, and their culture is too tightly-knit for them not to, in a way.

I agree, however, that it's quite silly to blame any quarian alive today for what happened 300 years ago.  I think we've had this conversation before...

Oh but I do. I know you don't feel that way about it and I understand why, but you're wrong. It's a pity you can't take a step back and have a look at yourself. Introspection is a wonderful thing.

I do all the time, actually.  Massive amounts of introspection is how I became an atheist.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You know what I think the best decision in ME was?  Legion's loyalty mission.  I have to think about it for like an hour every damn time.  Why is it good?  Probably because neither decision is clearly "right," and what you'll get out of either isn't exactly clear.  Virmire was lame because it was too clear in its ramifications and didn't really have many risks and benefits attached: do you want Ashley to die or do you want Kaidan to die?  And that was it.  But with the heretics, you have to choose between genocide and mass brainwashing, and you don't know how either will play out.  While you had some information, it wasn't clear exactly what you were about to do or what its effects would be.  Both options had unpleasant moral implications, and while brainwashing had possible benefits attached, it was a massive risk.  I have a serious love-hate relationship with that decision.

Ehhh. I would not compare the heretic choice with Vimire. They serve quite different purposes. Legion's LM is a difficult moral dillema, while Virmire was designed as a point where the hero suffered and the stakes were raised.

Quite different scenarios that serve quite different purposes to the player.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Why should the player be given bad consequences for doing something that most people probably would do?

Players should be given consequnces based on circumstances and player actions. If people want to do stupid moves, the game shouldn't hold their hands. Let them burn.

[Bekkael]

sorentoft wrote...
When did that L2 ever stand a chance to Ashley? I mean, yeah. Pointless waste of character.

He's alive in every one of my games.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Players should be given consequnces based on circumstances and player actions. If people want to do stupid moves, the game shouldn't hold their hands. Let them burn.

But then the renegade players would get all upset again!

/joking

[sorentoft]

Bekkael wrote...

sorentoft wrote...
When did that L2 ever stand a chance to Ashley? I mean, yeah. Pointless waste of character.

He's alive in every one of my games.

I suppose we even each other out then.

[Bekkael]

sorentoft wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

sorentoft wrote...
When did that L2 ever stand a chance to Ashley? I mean, yeah. Pointless waste of character.

He's alive in every one of my games.

I suppose we even each other out then.

The universe must retain balance.

[Jenova65]

sorentoft wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

sorentoft wrote...
When did that L2 ever stand a chance to Ashley? I mean, yeah. Pointless waste of character.

He's alive in every one of my games.

I suppose we even each other out then.

He's alive in all of mine too  And my daughter's and her BF's and my son's  (I love Ashley... I just love Kaidan more, so there )