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Let me save them.

Débuté par AdmiralCheez , oct. 07 2011 05:44

4309 réponses à ce sujet

#3951
AdmiralCheez
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:41

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Everyone getting out alive is shallow fantasy fulfillment. A cheap form of fanservice.

So is sex with aliens.

Well, that happened.

#3952
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:41

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I don't want any of my virtual "friends" to die, because I wouldn't be able to handle it.



DING!  Exactly.

That about sums it up.

#3953
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:41

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Approximately six specific characters should be able to survive under certain conditions.  Failing that, exactly who dies should at least be partially determined by the player.


Five characters can survive and the death of the sixth could be partially up to you. Though this would make it a Virmire choice and I thought you hated that one?

I point again to my argument about the vents in the suicide mission. Someone WILL die and you as leader have to decide to who.

#3954
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:41

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I don't see the killing off of major characters for the emotional impact as mature storytelling. I see it as emotional extortion. A cheap sucker punch.


DING!  Exactly. 


Everyone getting out alive is shallow fantasy fulfillment. A cheap form of fanservice.


Because the dead don't count unless you knew them? 

What's that you were saying about "shallow"? 

#3955
AdmiralCheez
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:43

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Five characters can survive and the death of the sixth could be partially up to you. Though this would make it a Virmire choice and I thought you hated that one?

I hated Virmire because it was poorly done.  The setup was too obvious, the presentation too sterite.

#3956
Seboist
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:43

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If Shepard's squad can mary sue their way out of death (again) then I'll take ME's story less seriously than I do Ninja Gaiden's.

#3957
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:44

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I don't want any of my virtual "friends" to die, because I wouldn't be able to handle it.


DING!  Exactly.


That about sums it up.


Just in case anyone missed it, Kaiser heavily misquoted rapscallioness. 

(I miss being on forums where that was an offense that would get not just your account, but your IP address, banned.)

#3958
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:44

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

"Nobody should die because I don't want that to happen!"

Approximately six specific characters should be able to survive under certain conditions.  Failing that, exactly who dies should at least be partially determined by the player.

That is my argument.

I agree with this. There's a vast multitude of characters in the ME games who can get killed, and whose deaths can all add realism and tragedy. None of them have to be in that small group that hangs around with Shepard.

#3959
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:44

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Everyone getting out alive is shallow fantasy fulfillment. A cheap form of fanservice.

So is sex with aliens.

Well, that happened.


Yeah and you know what? Tali and Garrus being squadmates in the game, much less romancable, was to the deteriment of their character. Garrus had his development in the first game tossed into the gutter and rendered pointless. Tali was totally wasted in a plot-line in which she had nothing at stake and no personal motivation to be part of it. It made her far less interesting than she could have been.

Both characters should have been saved for ME3 where they could have done something far more relevant and interesting. Instead, because they can die, whatever their role is in ME3 it will be small and replacable.

The romance with Tali also involved some biological gymnastics to make it plausible when perhaps a bittersweet "We just can't be together would have been better." Oh well, thems the breaks.

As you said, it happened.

However I see no reason to settle for mediocrity. I'm going to keep arguing against that kind of thing, if only out of spite.

#3960
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:44

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Seboist wrote...

If Shepard's squad can mary sue their way out of death (again) then I'll take ME's story less seriously than I do Ninja Gaiden's.


Hard to take you seriously when you use "mary sue" as a generic diluted verb. 

#3961
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:46

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Saphra Deden wrote...

However I see no reason to settle for mediocrity.


Says the person arguing for Hollywood formula scripting and resorting to ad hom attacks against anyone who doesn't agree... 

#3962
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:47

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Because the dead don't count unless you knew them? 

What's that you were saying about "shallow"? 


So is it all the same or what? lol

Are you avoiding the dilemma?

If the deaths are all the same to you then two things are true: 

1.) Whether it is a squadmate or a nameless NPC who dies won't matter to you.

2.) Either way you won't like the game because that death will hurt you too much.

So either you nameless millions, the statistics, don't mean as much to you or you are hoping that nobody will die in this game, including anonymous civilians. Which means when you say that there will already be "millions" beyond Shepard's control that you are not being truthful.

So, which is it?

Do they all mean the same to you?

Will they or won't they die in spite of Shepard's efforts?

Will you or won't you follow your own advice and play a different game?

I think this series just isn't for you.

Modifié par Saphra Deden, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:49 .

#3963
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:48

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I have no problem with squadmates dying if Shep screws up.

I have a problem with Shep being forced to screw up, or squadmates being scripted to die in order to fulfil a quota of "needed" deaths, no matter what Shep does.

#3964
WizenSlinky0
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:48

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Saphra Deden wrote...

My superior judgement.

If you don't like it, play a different game. You already said yourself there will be tragedy in the game in the form of millions of people dying. So obviously you don't like that so you won't like the game. So play something else.


Lalala~ Your haughty attitude of superiority is that of a troll hoping to elicite reactions or a person of great ignorance. It is becoming obvious to me your tummy has not been rubbed enough.

Would you like me to rub your tummy? Who wants their tummy rubbed? You do! Yes you do! I know you do. 

#3965
AdmiralCheez
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:49

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Saphra Deden wrote...

However I see no reason to settle for mediocrity.

Any story element can be well done with effort.  I had no issues with Tali/Garrus in ME2 apart from their lack of dialogue.

I'm going to keep arguing against that kind of thing, if only out of spite.

Saph in a nutshell.

#3966
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:49

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I have a problem with Shep being forced to screw up,


...but he doesn't need to screw up. Something beyond Shepard's control is something Shepard can't help.

#3967
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:50

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Either way you won't like the game because that death will hurt you too much.


You just can't help being presumptuous and asserting that your opponent is opperating from whatever motivation would them look as bad as possible in your eyes, can you? 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:51 .

#3968
AdmiralCheez
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:51

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Either way you won't like the game because that death will hurt you too much.

I have been hurt too much.

I don't want a game that's supposed to be fun to mimic that.

#3969
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:51

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...


You just can't help being presumptuous and asserting whatever motivation to your opponent makes them look as bad as possible in your eyes, can you? 


I can't help but to draw conclusions. It goes with having an analytical mind.

Now if you aren't going to answer my questions or address the point I made you should bow out of the debate.

#3970
rapscallioness
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:52

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@Saphra I understand you like the drama and suffering. You've made that abundantly clear. And I hope you have that choice..in Your game. But your way of seeing things is not superior just because it's your way.

I'm not arguing about it. I'm stating how I feel about it. Just as you are. Although you like arguing just like you like suffering. And I don't have to make excuses for nothing. I'm saying it outright. I prefer a Rainbows and Butterflies ending. After all the drama, I want it to work out in the end. I like drama, but I want it to work out in the end. If you don't like that, you can go play another game.

If you don't have enough to cry about in the real world, perhaps you should get out more. It'll fulfill your suffering quota.

Aren't you the one that wanted us to surrender to the Reapers anyway?

As far as the horse and the swamp...idk wtf you're talking about.

#3971
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:52

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

I have been hurt too much.

I don't want a game that's supposed to be fun to mimic that.


I'm sorry to hear that but it's still my money being dropped on this game and I want the most out of it, even if that is at your expense.

Why don't  you play something less violent?

#3972
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:52

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

You just can't help being presumptuous and asserting whatever motivation to your opponent makes them look as bad as possible in your eyes, can you? 


I can't help but to draw conclusions. It goes with having an analytical mind.

Now if you aren't going to answer my questions or address the point I made you should bow out of the debate.


No, you just can't help presuming the conclusion most advantageous to your position and insulting to your opponent. 

And as your questions are all based on that presumption, I'm not going to bother with them.

#3973
rapscallioness
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:53

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WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

My superior judgement.

If you don't like it, play a different game. You already said yourself there will be tragedy in the game in the form of millions of people dying. So obviously you don't like that so you won't like the game. So play something else.


Lalala~ Your haughty attitude of superiority is that of a troll hoping to elicite reactions or a person of great ignorance. It is becoming obvious to me your tummy has not been rubbed enough.

Would you like me to rub your tummy? Who wants their tummy rubbed? You do! Yes you do! I know you do. 


LOL...everybody loves a tummy rub!

#3974
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:54

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And as your questions are all based on that presumption, I'm not going to bother with them.


I think you realize that I caught you a contradiction and you're trying to save face.

#3975
WizenSlinky0
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 03:55

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Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm sorry to hear that but it's still my money being dropped on this game and I want the most out of it, even if that is at your expense.

Why don't  you play something less violent?


But see, this is where you're running into a problem. You've stopped arguing for things you "want" and started to argue against what other people want. You've stopped arguing for why you think something should be in the game, and started drawing inappropriate conclusions and unsupported claims about other posters based on what they want in the game.

It is counter productive to your arguments.
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