4309 réponses à ce sujet

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

So why don't you tell me about one of these non-cheap shot scenes?

I've already told you about my concept for the vents in the suicide mission.

Another example someone else proposed was a squadmate being stranded in enemy territory.

Colour me intrigued, mind reposing that so I don't have to dig 164 pages? Also how about the exact same situation with the crew abduction, except you'de be too late too matter what. I could much more easily accept something like that than "sorry kashley imma let you finish imma protect my lover and the bomb, cu"

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

That's a good scene, but whye can't we have that and a squadmate dying?

Choose to stick around and help them, you can evacuate a handful of them, but somebody gets a rocket to the face in the process.

Your WHOLE face this time, Garrus.

[Kmead15]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

So why don't you tell me about one of these non-cheap shot scenes?

I've already told you about my concept for the vents in the suicide mission.

Another example someone else proposed was a squadmate being stranded in enemy territory.

If yours was the vent scenario I'm remembering (it might not be, I think I've read more than one), I'm not convinced it would add anything. If they gave the illusion of choice at the beginning, my initial response would be "Oh, damn it, did I do something wrong?" then being annoyed that they'd made it look like what we did mattered. If they hadn't given us the ability to choose (or went ahead and told us whoever we sent in would be a dead man)... depending on how it was done it would likely get either a disinterested yawn or an amused smirk. Then again, I'm fairly cynical.

I don't think I remember the squadmate stranded one. Do you recall what page it was on?

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I merely jokingly summed up Paragons in general, you were the one that suddenly went "OH BUT I AM ALL THAT".

Yeah, well your joke was in bad taste.  You implied mental illness, which is not cool because, well, yours truly.

Can't prevent everyone from feeling insulted at everything I say.

And the period thing... smells like sexism.

Well, it seemed like the most obvious to add make Jack's mental instavility look even worse. Don't think I've ever (indirectly) been called a "sexist" on here, though, but I guess I can put it on my list.

I know you didn't intend it that way, but it's that subconscious stuff that we do sometimes that makes it seem acceptable when we do it consciously.

Next thing you say I can't make any race or weight jokes either...

Xilizhra wrote...

I know you didn't intend it that way, but it's that subconscious stuff that we do sometimes that makes it seem acceptable when we do it consciously.

You're clearly more trusting than I.

I'm not so bad... once you get to know me.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Codyacsmith]

This thread has become kinda morbid.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sounds like the start of the game on Earth.

Indeed, but by the end of the game the effect of that scene will have likely worn off since, you know, we had an entire game after that.

If done well, it will not have, at least not for me.

If done poorly, it won't have any impact to begin with.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:04 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Saphra Deden wrote...
\\
In any case, I never said the squadmate dying was the ONLY way to create drama. However I feel there is still a difference between colonists dying and someone personally close to Shepard. One of his team. That is a death that the player feels, either emotionally, or even through game-play. Like having a powerful squadmate you rely on... and now when you need the most they're gone.

There is a difference. I agree with that.

However, I also feel death to be a cop out emotionally in games, and a sign of weak writing sometimes. It is a short zing, compared to the longer process where you actually get to see the characters have to live through the emotional trauma of the wounds they've gotten, what they've lost, and how their personality changes in such a high stress enviroment.

I'd much rather see the squadmates live and be written so that I can see these changes, on their faces, in their voices, and in their writing. Its more interesting and lasts a lot longer emotionally, seeing someone who has been "close" to shepard for one or two games suddenly have to deal with the tragedy of it all.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

If yours was the vent scenario I'm remembering (it might not be, I think I've read more than one), I'm not convinced it would add anything. If they gave the illusion of choice at the beginning, my initial response would be "Oh, damn it, did I do something wrong?" then being annoyed that they'd made it look like what we did mattered.

Your choice would matter. Either you sacrifice one squadmate to save 11 others or you sacrifice two to save ten. The point is, it really puts Shepard and that squadmate on the spot. They can have a proper send-off, rather than a death-scene that can be fulfilled by anybody and is thus interchangable and not personal. It's a chance for a goodbye and a salute. It's sacrifice, organcis at their best during the worst of times.

Some die so others may live.

That has impact for exactly one playthrough. 

Then you realize that you were set up for it, and it becomes entirely mechanical.

[aiDvEoN]

The biggest problem with that vent scenario though Saphra is that in the language of video games, deaths are a mark of failure. Even if that is a best case scenario, the player will feel like they did something wrong.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Can't prevent everyone from feeling insulted at everything I say.

Shouldn't try to insult people intentionally in the first place.

Well, it seemed like the most obvious to add make Jack's mental instavility look even worse. Don't think I've ever (indirectly) been called a "sexist" on here, though, but I guess I can put it on my list.

It's an exclusively female thing you used to make her "look even worse."  If she were a man, you wouldn't have said that.  You have linked being female to being weak.

Next thing you say I can't make any race or weight jokes either...

And you shouldn't be making them.

Remember that time you called me a chubby?  Yeah, I was pissed off.  That one had sexist undertones, too.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Like having a powerful squadmate you rely on... and now when you need the most they're gone.

Yeah that would be GREAT dramatic device if it didn't actually happen to me in real life.

"Boy life is being awful and I need someone to lean on right now.  I should go talk to so-and-so OOPS SHE'S DEAD."

[Kaiser Shepard]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

If yours was the vent scenario I'm remembering (it might not be, I think I've read more than one), I'm not convinced it would add anything. If they gave the illusion of choice at the beginning, my initial response would be "Oh, damn it, did I do something wrong?" then being annoyed that they'd made it look like what we did mattered.

Your choice would matter. Either you sacrifice one squadmate to save 11 others or you sacrifice two to save ten. The point is, it really puts Shepard and that squadmate on the spot. They can have a proper send-off, rather than a death-scene that can be fulfilled by anybody and is thus interchangable and not personal. It's a chance for a goodbye and a salute. It's sacrifice, organcis at their best during the worst of times.

Some die so others may live.

That has impact for exactly one playthrough. 

Then you realize that you were set up for it, and it becomes entirely mechanical.

The same could be said of every video game moment, and to be quite honest nobody is expected to suddenly forget everything that happened and be impacted by every subsequent playthrough like they were by the first.

The Sovereign reveal also never surprises someone after the first playthrough, nor did the Revan one or any other... the point is for them to be good, not repeated into death, pun not intended.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:10 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Well, it seemed like the most obvious to add make Jack's mental instavility look even worse. Don't think I've ever (indirectly) been called a "sexist" on here, though, but I guess I can put it on my list.

It's an exclusively female thing you used to make her "look even worse."  If she were a man, you wouldn't have said that.  You have linked being female to being weak.

And in doing so, Kaiser, you also flat out said that anyone who doesn't want squadmate slaughter in ME3 has that preference because they are weak, unstable, emotionally troubled, and need to be coddled. 

[xentar]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Um, yes, death is a bad thing. In what way would it be good? (can't believe this is actually being debated)

In that it ends life which is eternal suffering, of course. Naturally, good and bad are relaive things, so, this approach may not. work for everyone.

[Codyacsmith]

Can't we find some common ground to agree on?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That has impact for exactly one playthrough. 

Then you realize that you were set up for it, and it becomes entirely mechanical.

How do you figure that? If you care about the character then their death is going to matter to you each time no matter what.

Otherwise, why in the hell are you replaying this game at all? The entire thing is a set-up.

What's the point in the loyalty missions? They are just set-up.

Do you only get emotionally invested in the characters once?

If this is the case then frankly, I don't care how you feel about this because you aren't going to be invested no matter what. So this debate doesn't concern you.

I don't get invested at all in characters I know are going to die in the course of the story / game. 

Luckily, I got ME2 as a gift, and played it before ME1, so I knew not to get invested in Ashley and Kaiden.


EDIT:  as I noted earlier, a few years ago, I realized about halfway through a book that my favorite character was going to be offed by the writer in order to provide some cheap drama, so I just stopped reading it and returned the book to the store. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:16 .