4309 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Are you telling me that Paragon and Renegade aren't personality types as much as they are playstyles? Certainly everyone I've run into on this forum has a preference.

Yeah, they're just preferences.  They actually say very little about the people playing them.  The sweetest, most mellow girl I know had the most fun with a pure renegade run.

[jeweledleah]

you know what bioware needs to do? they need to add achievements for killing off your squad. call it "the butcher" or "the demon barber" or something. you know, to reward people for trying out various endings and stuff.

seriously, I have trouble understanding where exactly this whole renegade entitlement is coming from. when I play a renegade I play it precisely becasue it lets me tie up a lot of lose ends, get things done once and for all. as a paragon? you have to keep tying up all those loose ends you left, because you were feeling kind. you get an option for a different sort of playstyle - you CHOSE to be expedient. and then you complain about lack of content, aka loose ends?

>_>

and no, sacrificing earth is not a good option. to quote Shepards speech to Garrus..loosely quoted. things need to be done right even if its harder. this is the essence of a paragon. they take the long way around, make things harder on themselves. Renegades? renegades take shortcuts. the more renegade, the more liable to take all sorts of shortcuts, make the fight easier. and there's nothing wrong with it - easier fights are more likely to be winnable. it just comes with a price of less content, cause hey - shortcut! kinda what it means, yanno.

[rapscallioness]

Well, anywhooo. I hope to get my crew all out alive. In a dramatic, tear jerking way, but alive nonetheless. Realism be damned. There's enough friggin' tragedy in the real world.

Oh, and I made some period jokes, too. Sorry. Mea Culpa. (Although, I know I'm a mean b*tch when I'm on my period).

I think that's all my offenses for this evening. Good night, BSN..and good luck.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Never about risk?

What about the rachni queen or the Feros colonists? What about Balak vs the hostages? How about whether or not to send an escort for Chakwas and the other survivors?

What I meant was the game's not going to let you say, "Meh, I don't feel like fighting the Reapers because they might kill my friends, so I'll just let them win."

[Kmead15]

I think the concept of an entire planet vs one person is a bit over the top. However, I don't mind the concept behind it. A Shepard cautious enough to protect their entire squad might not be able to make the gains that a more bold Shepard makes.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If you met me in person you'd think I was quite mellow I'm sure. Maybe it doesn't always point to a certain mindset or personality, but I think it often does. The arguments people have about the debates in Mass Effect say a lot about them.

What a person thinks and believes says a lot about them, yes.  How they play a game?  Nope.

And if I met you in person, I'd probably punch you out.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Hathur wrote...

Couldn't sleep.. venting / fuming pointless post - don't read it.. don't care.. this is for my own sake.

There's a lot of genuinely unpleasant human beings here. Some comments by people like Saph are Kaiser are outright terrible / hurtful and sadden me to know there's mean-to-the-core people in this community. The vehement nature of such posts are leagues worse than what trolls do since at least those idiots do it just for a stupid, immature laugh... but some of the stuff you guys are saying are terrible

Please remember there are flesh and blood real human beings writing in these forums... not just virtual avatars comprised of bits and bytes. Things we say CAN hurt and cause sadness or pain to people.... if you find yourself ok with that, then you're a terrible human being and you should be truly ashamed.

This thread is terrible, morbid and depressing. I won't be coming back to read it anymore as it's purely sick now.

Shame on you all who behaved like such terrible people.

Empathy. Google it, jerks.

Oh please, I can be quite empathic. Hell, that's the sole reason I want some actual emotional engagement this time 'round.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nobody suggested that so why  even bring it up?

"Oh hey, I know!  Only let them save the squad if they sacrifice Earth!"

Yep.  Brought up.

Like Kmead said, good concept, but way the hell over the top.

[Marionetten]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Because not taking the risk in such a situation is not an aspect of Shepard.  There was never a "let's not send someone with the salarians" or a "let's not send someone through the vents."  The game simply would not allow that sort of thing, and would not weigh the outcome on whether or not someone liked a character.

Which I view as a problem with the writing. Shepard constantly takes these massive risks and he always ends up unfazed. He's becoming too much of a Space Jesus for my likes. I miss the guy from Mass Effect. You know, the guy who couldn't fix everything but still did his best. He was human. I liked him. I felt for him and wanted to help him. Space Jesus don't need no help.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Besides, you're characterizing all the people that want to save the squad as selfish douchebags that would rather slaughter billions of people they don't know to save a handful of people they do.

And I'm sure most of us would opt to be selfish douchebags. I mean, the entire desire of wanting everybody to survive is selfish. You want them to survive for feelgood points and I understand that. But what's so bad about feeling a little guilt over some of your choices? Give us actual options to think about instead of "PRESS THIS BUTTON FOR AWESOME ENDING" or "PRESS THIS BUTTON FOR WRONG ENDING."

Even Fable 3 managed to do this to some extent with the Elise choice. I mean, come on. Fable 3.

Modifié par Marionetten, 23 octobre 2011 - 06:30 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Now now, there's no call for that.

Oh, you have no idea, do you?

[mybudgee]

Are you guys kidding?!?!? Of COURSE there must be tragedy. Certainly BW planned these games and this story arc to be dark. Don't you see that is what makes ME different and unique? That is exactly what made the first one so epic. The unflinching tragedy. Look at some of the truly great pieces of art and literature in the past few hundred years...they almost always include or center around suffering. I vote for as much saddness as BW can cram in! Bring on the waterworks!!

[Kmead15]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nobody suggested that so why  even bring it up?

"Oh hey, I know!  Only let them save the squad if they sacrifice Earth!"

Yep.  Brought up.

Like Kmead said, good concept, but way the hell over the top.

So you would be for it if the gains were smaller? I'd not been clear on that. (You probably said it somewhere earlier in the thread, but it's long enough that I've completely lost track of who takes exactly what position.)

[KungFuTurtle]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Couldn't sleep.. venting / fuming pointless post - don't read it.. don't care.. this is for my own sake.

There's a lot of genuinely unpleasant human beings here. Some comments by people like Saph are Kaiser are outright terrible / hurtful and sadden me to know there's mean-to-the-core people in this community. The vehement nature of such posts are leagues worse than what trolls do since at least those idiots do it just for a stupid, immature laugh... but some of the stuff you guys are saying are terrible

Please remember there are flesh and blood real human beings writing in these forums... not just virtual avatars comprised of bits and bytes. Things we say CAN hurt and cause sadness or pain to people.... if you find yourself ok with that, then you're a terrible human being and you should be truly ashamed.

This thread is terrible, morbid and depressing. I won't be coming back to read it anymore as it's purely sick now.

Shame on you all who behaved like such terrible people.

Empathy. Google it, jerks.

Oh please, I can be quite empathic. Hell, that's the sole reason I want some actual emotional engagement this time 'round.

I'd be nodding in agreement with hathur if I weren't also fighting not to laugh as well at her post. She comes across as so damn sweet that even her attempt at a tirade is practically adorable. Ahh good stuff.  No but seriously the chick is kind of right. Lots of low swinging dickbags here based on the little I bothered to read.

[AdmiralCheez]

Marionetten wrote...

Which I view as a problem with the writing. Shepard constantly takes these massive risks and he always ends up unfazed. He's becoming too much of a Space Jesus for my likes. I miss the guy from Mass Effect. You know, the guy who couldn't fix everything but still did his best. He was human. I liked him. I felt for him and wanted to help him. Space Jesus don't need no help.

I think you missed my point.  If you need to take a risk to advance the plot, you're taking it no matter what.  I doubt we'll get a "press X to not save Earth."  Personally, I thought Space Jesus was kind of fun, but I can understand where you'd get annoyed with it.  Rest assured, the devs have promised a more human Shepard this time around.

And I'm sure most of us would opt to be selfish douchebags. I mean, the entire desire of wanting everybody to survive is selfish. You want them to survive for feelgood points and I understand that. But what's so bad about feeling a little guilt over some of your choices? Give us actual options to think about instead of "PRESS THIS BUTTON FOR AWESOME ENDING" and "PRESS THIS BUTTON FOR WRONG ENDING."

I do think there should be more risks and losses to go with the benefits, yes.  There should be a healthy mix of win/win, win/lose, and lose/lose.  That's what makes playing it interesting.

You know what else is selfish?  Playing videogames when you could be making shoes for orphans. *waggles eyebrows*  Yeah no seriously saying people have to die because that's the proper way to do it is still sort of selfish in a way, since it implies that one's views on entertainment value are superior to another's.  So is anyone who says "I want or do not want X in the game."

[AdmiralCheez]

Kmead15 wrote...

So you would be for it if the gains were smaller? I'd not been clear on that. (You probably said it somewhere earlier in the thread, but it's long enough that I've completely lost track of who takes exactly what position.)

I would prefer to be able to beat the game with all squadmates alive.  I advocate gains in this area meaning losses in others, so long as they aren't so ridiculous it might as well be a non-choice.  I accept a revisit to the Virmire scenario as a compromise, so long as the presentation is more involved and less blatant.

[Marionetten]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I think you missed my point.  If you need to take a risk to advance the plot, you're taking it no matter what.  I doubt we'll get a "press X to not save Earth."  Personally, I thought Space Jesus was kind of fun, but I can understand where you'd get annoyed with it.  Rest assured, the devs have promised a more human Shepard this time around.

That's the thing though. By not taking the risk presented you'd be advancing the plot differently. That is what I'm advocating here. Actual choice which changes the landscape of the conflict. If you want everybody to survive then you should be required to focus on that. I'd love to see actual risk assessment and more emotion from Shepard when he's gambling with lives.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I do think there should be more risks and losses to go with the benefits, yes.  There should be a healthy mix of win/win, win/lose, and lose/lose.  That's what makes playing it interesting.

You know what else is selfish?  Playing videogames when you could be making shoes for orphans. *waggles eyebrows*  Yeah no seriously saying people have to die because that's the proper way to do it is still sort of selfish in a way, since it implies that one's views on entertainment value are superior to another's.  So is anyone who says "I want or do not want X in the game."

It's a game about a massive war. Emphasis on massive. I don't think it's too out of place to expect some death and carnage to go with it. To me it's a matter off believability. BioWare wants to sell me on the idea of these guys being a huge threat to the universe. They're not going to accomplish that by having Shepard and crew drinking hot coco while leisurely cruising through the game without sacrificing anything and then living happily ever after.