4309 réponses à ce sujet

[eternalnightmare13]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I disagree.  Everyone gets to "win" (read: beat the Reapers), and sacrifices should be roughly equivalent across the board since each major decision should have roughly equal benefits and drawbacks.  "Losing" should result from making mistakes (like having the krogans do stealth and recon while leaving the salarians to hold the line).

On another note, anyone notice that you can't actually fail your mission in ME2 (short of getting killed in the combat gameplay)? Even if everyone (including Shepard) dies, it's still Mission Accomplished - the Collectors are defeated and no longer a threat to humanity.

That's common place not just in Bioware games, but almost all games.  Although, I totally disagree with your idea of it meaning the Collectors lost.  Instead I always see it as them winning since Shepard's not there to stop 'em.

[Valdrane78]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

I know what you mean sorta.
I feel like I'm ''forcing it'' if I try to play 100 percent paragon.  A mixture is best for me.

This, by the end of the game I am usually 95% paragon and 50% renegade.   When I switched it it was because I forced it to get a renegade play through for the sake of variety for ME3, it didn't feel natural at all and sorta ruined the experience for me.

[Captain_Obvious]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It would help if BioWare could decide if Renegade meant "ruthlessly utilitarian" or "uselessly dickish". 

I always thought Renegade was "the ends justify the means" position, but maybe that's just me.  For every dickish move, there is a reason behind it.  It may not be obvious, and it's certainly not the nice way, but it gets results.  Results are all that matter.  My take on Renegade, anyway.

[GodWood]

This thread needs more Dave.

Xilizhra wrote...
The only thing I'm really against, as such, is automatic LI deaths.

I'd happily buy 10 extra copies if Bioware did that.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

How mature is someone who can't deal with death?

Actually, I got compliments on my maturity from friends and family when we were going through rough times.  I handled the situation better than all my aunts and uncles, who are doctors, lawyers, judges, and university professors.

I also play mediator between my friends when they fly into drama fests and have dealt exceptionally well with the loss of five important people in my life and two pets within one year.

Being able to play as a knight in shining armor for the whole damn galaxy is a fun and enjoyable break from the stresses of maturely handling a wide variety of tragedies in real life.

Of course, I still cry watching Disney movies and collect My Little Ponies, so it's not like I'm a bastion of maturity or anything.  Aaaand I get pissed at people on the internet, so I lose points for that.

[KBomb]

GodWood wrote...

This thread needs more Dave.

Sorry, I have him on MSN discussing more important things such as apple bottom jeans and Corona.

[Kaiser Shepard]

KBomb wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Indeed, although I'm already used to the same people forcing their views and believes upon others all the time.

Oh, the irony.

What irony? I'm merely advocating true choice/consequence and decent storytelling in these games, nor am I one to call people "racist", "homophobe" and "fascist" when their opinions don't align with mine. Because if there's anything I am not, it's the former two.

GodWood wrote...

This thread needs more Dave.

Xilizhra wrote...
The only thing I'm really against, as such, is automatic LI deaths.

I'd happily buy 10 extra copies if Bioware did that.

Same here, it's about time they at least try to pull of some proper emotional engagement.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:30 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What irony? I'm merely advocating true choice/consequence and decent storytelling in these games, nor am I one to call people "racist", "homophobe" and "fascist" when their opinions don't align with mine. Because if there's anything I am not, it's the former two.

Didn't you say, once, that you didn't find women of all races attractive?

/trollface

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What irony? I'm merely advocating true choice/consequence and decent storytelling in these games, nor am I one to call people "racist", "homophobe" and "fascist" when their opinions don't align with mine. Because if there's anything I am not, it's the former two.

Didn't you say, once, that you didn't find women of all races attractive?

/trollface

Yup, Jubileus forbid me having personal taste or preference.

I can't be a racist or anything: I even have black friends... >_>

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:42 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

laecraft wrote...

Suffering is drama. Drama makes for a good story. Hard choices and painful dilemmas reveal the character, who otherwise remains undefined. Victories are only satisfying if the enemy is just as powerul as you are, or better yet, overwhelming. That power is shown by the heavy losses the hero suffers. There's no other way. If the enemy is so weak that you defeat it without any sacrificies that matter to you personally, then it's bambi meets godzilla.

The countless faceless deaths are not going to move you as much as a single death of a close companion. And if it were otherwise, as some people try to pretend, then they wouldn't struggle so violently against the very idea of their squadmates dying in the war. "Let millions die, that's already shows the sacrifices. But don't you touch those I care about!" Hah!

That's the difference between fanfiction wish-fulfilment and a solid, engaging story. In fanfiction, the hero prevails without any struggle over the most powerful enemy. Nobody important (read: close to you) ever dies. The hero never suffers. He's completely invulnerable. He's never threatened. There's a total sense of security. I understand that's exactly what you want. And that just shows that some fans do NOT know what they need for the story to be engaging. If you got exactly what you asked for, you'd be bored.

If there's a route where you can save everyone, then it would make the player feel like their Shepardi is sloppy, not caring, and worse yet, incapable leader for not taking it. Thus, everybody will take the "save everyone" route, and everybody gets cheated out of drama.

If there's to be a good story, you all will have to suffer. And Shepard, first and foremost. Brace yourself for it.

Meh.

Spare us the "drama".  

[Aggie Punbot]

Xilizhra wrote...

I've noticed a very distinct trend here: the "possible best ending" people are either Paragons or some shade of neutral, while the "kill everyone" people are Renegades. This intrigues me.

That's interesting, since I am very much pro-Renegade.

[Killjoy Cutter]

XyleJKH wrote...

Don't feed the troll

Hell, which one? 

[Someone With Mass]

I think I can live without the drama.

I'd rather have them focus on making a good story.

[Prince Zeel]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

XyleJKH wrote...

Don't feed the troll

Hell, which one? 

You amused me with this reply.

Either way, onto better arguments. ta-dah. this thread has done all it can for me. Do what you want with it

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:48 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Yup, Jubileus forbid me having personal taste or preference.

I can't be a racist or anything: I even have black friends... >_>

/trollface again

[Kusy]

Someone With Mass wrote...
I think I can live without the drama.
I'd rather have them focus on making a good story.

Hmm... I can live without dialogues.
I'd rather have them focus on making a good story...

because both drama and dialogue are not part of it.

[eternalnightmare13]

GodWood wrote...

This thread needs more Dave.

Xilizhra wrote...
The only thing I'm really against, as such, is automatic LI deaths.

I'd happily buy 10 extra copies if Bioware did that.

I wouldn't buy ten copies, but I'd defintely give them major props for having some balls and courage to write a script that isn't safe and full of fan service. It'd also strike a serious emotional chord for me.  Though this forum would erupt in nerd rage - perhaps that's how the world will end in 2012....LMAO

[Blacklash93]

There should be some unavoidable deaths. That's how a good story carries weight. I honestly couldn't take any deaths on the suicide mission in ME2 seriously because I knew all the characters I cared about could be saved in my canon playthrough.

The entire galactic war, let alone the "minimal casualties" ending, should be a struggle of great effort. But... of course winning against the Reapers will be made easy as cake (unless you're intentionally making bad decisions) for the sake of less committed players aka the casuals.

[HogarthHughes 3]

I suppose I'm with the "kill-everyone" group. Look at Dragon Age: The choice between Harrowmont & Bhelen, or between preserving or destroying the Anvil actually manage to be somewhat "hard choices" because there is no clearly superior choice. Unlike say with Nature of the Beast where curing the curse and enlisting the Dalish is obviously best for everyone, thus turning the choices to side with only the Dalish or the Werewolves into the "bad" choices. Same thing with the choice between killing Connor or Isolde; when the Warden can just run to the Circle and save both, it is no longer a "hard choice" at all. Instead it's just another obvious choice between better and worse outcomes.

I don't even support half the crew dying or anything like that, just a couple here and there.  Dave's post would be great, and he still made it possible to save all crew members (just not without cost elsewhere).

And Prince Zeel is hilarious. I'm glad that he's back (unfortunately it might not be for long).

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:55 .

[Medhia Nox]

To OP: I might suggest that you have been given unreasonable expectations of the world.

The world is amazing - full of every form of wonder imaginable (common sense since we can only imagine because we are of the world). Likely, a statement like that will give you the opinion that my life has been exceptionally easy and my view is rose colored - and while I won't argue it with you, I've no way (nor interest) to prove anything about my life to you - it has not been easy.

But easy was never my expectation.

I don't choose Paragon because I believe it is some make believe way of going about life - I choose Paragon because I believe it is the only way to go about life.

[Timmy Ziggy]

@AdmiralCheez

I actually totally agree with the first post, most of my Shep's are near identical in their choices, based on how I would personally challenge the situations, like always rewriting the geth, or telling Miranda to talk to her sister, keeping everyone alive etc.

I have literally become so engrossed with the plot of the Mass Effect series that I've done too many playthroughs to remember what I did first time around, so I decided to make two canon Shep's. One is a playthrough that goes through my emotions and choices at that time (again, likely gonna save all the squad and turn on Legion and Grunt), and the other is a Randon Shep, who's choices are decided by a roll of a die - partly inspired by the Dice Man.

The 'Dice' Shep (as s/he will now be known, from this point on) has everything decided for me by luck, and then I have to make a story around that. Male/Soldier/War Hero/Earthborn or Female/Vanguard/Sole Survivor/Colonist? Kaiden or Ashley? Heads or Tails? Whatever the outcome, it leads a very unpredictable opening for ME3. Maybe rather then always try to be unrealistic in your efforts for a ME playtrhough, try unpredictable! Save Vido and Morinth, but destroy the Collector base and side with Miranda against Jack! Or don't even do the loyalty missions, if the dice thus chooses.

[thedistortedchild]

 So if the fine folks at Bioware have squeezed in one little possible endgame scenario in which the crew makes it out alive again and I don't have to basically murder my space-BFFs to win, even if there's like a 10% chance of getting that ending, I'd be eternally grateful.

This is exactly how I feel. It can be the most ridiculously hard ending to get, I am willing to make my Shepards earn their happy endings. As long as there is one sunshine and lollipos ending I'll be thrilled.
After all, sometimes it's nice to have some escapist fun.