4309 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Really?  Because I kept holding my breath every time I thought someone
would die, and when no one did, I was basically jumping up and down like
YEAH, SUCK IT COLLECTORS.  Best damn ending ever.

That's how I felt about it.

For me, it's not enough if I just win, or even win so big the enemy is humiliated.  I have to win in such a way that their very reason for existence is refuted, their ideology destroyed, and any truth they believed shown to be a lie.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Actually you can convince them to live in peace and then stealth kill the ghoul leader.

Then they actually do live in peace.

Two things:

1.) That's meta-gaming

2.) It doesn't work anyway since the Tenpenny residents are scripted to die regardless of whether or not Roy is alive

I had a feeling you'd try and weasel your way out of that decision though. It's your nature.

Take the Pitt. You can choose to violently free the slaves and kill an infant's loving parents, or you can keep the slaves oppressed and spare the infant life as an orphan.

There's no "happy" path that leads to everyone winning and coming to an understanding. Some things can't be reconciled. (again, more depth here than anywhere in Mass Effect)

1.) meta-gaming isn't evil so get that stick out of your ass and stop acting like it's just soooo bad.

2.) They've never died when I did that.

3.) Don't presume to know my nature you sanctimonious prig.

[S Seraff]

I hate to lose anybody, AND I appreciate the poignancy that losing a squadmate brings, too. I think what I want most is that Bioware stay true to their vision of the tale; I havent liked very plot event, but I'm in love with the ME story, and I trust I'll learn to cope with whatever direction they decide things must go in. I only hope that losing your LI is NOT necessary

[Han Shot First]

Mass Effect is not, and never should be, Care Bears in Space. For the people who want rainbows and butterflies, maybe a dark science fiction series built around hard decisions and morally grey dilemmas is not for you. I mean, the Reapers have cyclically destroyed every sentient being in the galaxy for millions and millions of years. Millions.

And some people think it would be appropriate for an ending in which Shepard just takes care of business, brushes dirt off his shoulder, and afterwards everybody just lives happily ever after? Maybe getting married and having what may or may not be cross-species children?

Great post.

I knew nothing about Mass Effect while it was in development, and what first got me interested in the series was those commercials for ME1 that advetised "Many decisions lie ahead, none of them easy."



The Mass Effect series has always been presented as dark Sci Fi. With that in mind, I'm not certain why some want the series to be transformed into a light fantasy epic set in space (like Star Wars) where the hero and his companions are practically invulnerable.

I hope Bioware has the courage to to put the player in situations where even some of the most beloved of squad mates, may not be able to be saved.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 octobre 2011 - 02:49 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Then you've missed my entire point.

EVENTS CAN AND SHOULD HAPPEN BEYOND YOUR CONTROL

Some events, but not all.

If it were entirely up to player choice, there would be no plot.  If there is no player choice, then the game is a linear shooter with lots of chatting.

[DiebytheSword]

I liked the general tone of Arrival. It was out of your control. And now my spacer war hero Shep, once credited with saving Elysium from the Skyllian Blitz, is now a mass murderer, with the blood of 300,000 batarian colonists on her hands. That's acceptable gravity. Killing a well developed character every entry cheapens things as much as the care bears in space argument. Death then becomes cheap, and constant, and lacking in substance.

It is death for death's sake.

Again, I'm not opposed to things being out of Sheps hands, but the last entry in the trilogy should end with triumph, if you can earn it, and not be the series Emprie Strikes Back. The door to do that responsibly from a writing standpoint came and went with ME2.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Then you've missed my entire point.

EVENTS CAN AND SHOULD HAPPEN BEYOND YOUR CONTROL

Some events, but not all.

If it were entirely up to player choice, there would be no plot.  If there is no player choice, then the game is a linear shooter with lots of chatting.

I seem to remember a lot of people on this same network ****ing up a storm when Hawk's choices all seemed to fall between nice speech and not-an-issue for the crazies.   Sure, Hawk made things happen, but none of those things were directly influenced by Hawk.  The Mages and the Templars still fought no matter what, and people complained heavily.  The reality is that the responsible path lies somewhere inbetween.  I could not agree with AdmiralCheez more.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 08 octobre 2011 - 02:55 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

1.) meta-gaming isn't evil so get that stick out of your ass and stop acting like it's just soooo bad.

2.) They've never died when I did that.

3.) Don't presume to know my nature you sanctimonious prig.

1. It undermines roleplaying, which is supposed to be the point of the game. Learn to deal with choices having consequences.

2. Good for you.

3. Of course you'd tell someone that on here, you keyboard hero; no consequences. It's in your nature, as Saphra said.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Then you've missed my entire point.

EVENTS CAN AND SHOULD HAPPEN BEYOND YOUR CONTROL

Some events, but not all.

If it were entirely up to player choice, there would be no plot.  If there is no player choice, then the game is a linear shooter with lots of chatting.

Mass Effect already is a linear shooter with lots of chatting. Don't delude yourself into thinking it's anything more than Gears of War with a lot of senseless filler.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:01 .

[spirosz]

Han Shot First wrote...

Mass Effect is not, and never should be, Care Bears in Space. For the people who want rainbows and butterflies, maybe a dark science fiction series built around hard decisions and morally grey dilemmas is not for you. I mean, the Reapers have cyclically destroyed every sentient being in the galaxy for millions and millions of years. Millions.

And some people think it would be appropriate for an ending in which Shepard just takes care of business, brushes dirt off his shoulder, and afterwards everybody just lives happily ever after? Maybe getting married and having what may or may not be cross-species children?

Great post.

I knew nothing about Mass Effect while it was in development, and what first got me interested in the series was those commercials for ME1 that advetised "Many decisions lie ahead, none of them easy."



The Mass Effect series has always been presented as dark Sci Fi. With that in mind, I'm not certain why some want the series to be transformed into a light fantasy epic set in space (like Star Wars) where the hero and his companions are practically invulnerable.

I hope Bioware has the courage to to put the player in situations where even some of the most beloved of squad mates, may not be able to be saved.

I agree with you, but I don't want a death to happen for the sake of it, you know what I mean. I'm all for losing someone, but I want it to work in the context of whatever is happening at that moment. For example, I can just imagine my reaction if I saw Jack die by the hands of a Cerberus operative (Kai Lang/Leng(sp?)), especially because of her story with Cerberus itself.  It would probably be the only time I ninja star my controller at the T.V, lol.  

[Han Shot First]

Killing a well developed character every entry cheapens things as much as the care bears in space argument. Death then becomes cheap, and constant, and lacking in substance.

It is death for death's sake.

Again, I'm not opposed to things being out of Sheps hands, but the last entry in the trilogy should end with triumph, if you can earn it, and not be the series Emprie Strikes Back. The door to do that responsibly from a writing standpoint came and went with ME2. .

Death has hardly been overdone in the Mass Effect series.

Most people, myself included, have probably only lost one squad mate on their canon playthrough. The sucide mission was extremely easy to get through completely unscathed, and Shepard will only lose people if the player skips content or has Shepard make bad tactical decisions.

With that in mind I think we should lose a few people in Mass Effect 3 even when Shepard makes the right tactical decisions, or because of it. A few squad mate deaths also do not tarnish Shepard's ultimate victory in any way. Was the ending of Mass Effect 1 less satisfying because Ashley or Kaidan had died?

I agree with you, but I don't want a death to happen for the sake of it, you know what I mean. I'm all for losing someone, but I want it to work in the context of whatever is happening at that moment. For example, I can just imagine my reaction if I saw Jack die by the hands of a Cerberus operative (Kai Lang/Leng(sp?)), especially because of her story with Cerberus itself.  It would probably be the only time I ninja star my controller at the T.V, lol.  

I would agree with that.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:04 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...



Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 

I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...



Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 

I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 

I can think of two at least.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...



Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 

I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It would help if BioWare could decide if Renegade meant "ruthlessly utilitarian" or "uselessly dickish". 

I always thought Renegade was "the ends justify the means" position, but maybe that's just me.  For every dickish move, there is a reason behind it.  It may not be obvious, and it's certainly not the nice way, but it gets results.  Results are all that matter.  My take on Renegade, anyway.

What about moments such as the almost racist rant at the Asari couple stuck on the Citadel? 

[Medhia Nox]

I love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed.

Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright.

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

[Killjoy Cutter]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

How mature is someone who can't deal with death?

Actually, I got compliments on my maturity from friends and family when we were going through rough times.  I handled the situation better than all my aunts and uncles, who are doctors, lawyers, judges, and university professors.

I also play mediator between my friends when they fly into drama fests and have dealt exceptionally well with the loss of five important people in my life and two pets within one year.

Being able to play as a knight in shining armor for the whole damn galaxy is a fun and enjoyable break from the stresses of maturely handling a wide variety of tragedies in real life.

Of course, I still cry watching Disney movies and collect My Little Ponies, so it's not like I'm a bastion of maturity or anything.  Aaaand I get pissed at people on the internet, so I lose points for that.

+1

[DiebytheSword]

Han Shot First wrote...

Killing a well developed character every entry cheapens things as much as the care bears in space argument. Death then becomes cheap, and constant, and lacking in substance.

It is death for death's sake.

Again, I'm not opposed to things being out of Sheps hands, but the last entry in the trilogy should end with triumph, if you can earn it, and not be the series Emprie Strikes Back. The door to do that responsibly from a writing standpoint came and went with ME2. .

Death has hardly been overdone in the Mass Effect series.

Most people, myself included, have probably only lost one squad mate on their canon playthrough. The sucide mission was extremely easy to get through completely unscathed, and Shepard will only lose people if the player skips content or has Shepard make bad tactical decisions.

With that in mind I think we should lose a few people in Mass Effect 3 even when Shepard makes the right tactical decisions, or because of it. A few squad mate deaths also do not tarnish Shepard's ultimate victory in any way. Was the ending of Mass Effect 1 less satisfying because Ashley or Kaidan had died?

I agree with you, but I don't want a death to happen for the sake of it, you know what I mean. I'm all for losing someone, but I want it to work in the context of whatever is happening at that moment. For example, I can just imagine my reaction if I saw Jack die by the hands of a Cerberus operative (Kai Lang/Leng(sp?)), especially because of her story with Cerberus itself.  It would probably be the only time I ninja star my controller at the T.V, lol.  

I would agree with that.

Yes because all the people at Eden Prime, Zhu's Hope, the Battle for the Citadel, Ahrtot, Omega Slums during the outbreak, Freedom's Progress and Horizon don't count.  I see what you mean.  Does this include all the people you kill as Shep? 

Sounds like sunshine, munchkin, my liitle ponyville with the care bears over for a visit.

And that's not even tapping side missions.  Your problem is that you value life so little that losing them in those numbers elsewhere mean nothing but getting a friend killed makes the galaxy a darker place.

Excuse me while I go over and hang out with Grim, the death Care Bear and Pale Pony, who will someday carry the first horseman.

 love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed.

Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright.

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Totally hear you on this one, Table Top RPG is where its at.  I've seen players devise very interesting ways out of cleverly laid traps.  A computer RPG, including well written MMOs, can't come close to the table top experience.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:20 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra wrote...

Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 

I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

LoL... no.

"Uselessly dickish".

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:18 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed.

Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright.

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Indeed. 

This is a similar phenomenon to the people who say things like "man up" or "don't be a ****y" or whatever, regarding video games, especially in multiplayer online play.  Typically they're about 13, and have no clue what it really means to "man up", because their idea of "a bad week" is mommy not buying them newest version of the iPhone. 

I real life, you can do everything right, and still have things work out terribly wrong.  People you care about die.  People you love, leave.  Hell, try having to decide that death is the most merciful thing you can do for a beloved pet, even.  Anyone who thinks that not wanting more of that "realism" in my games somehow makes me "less mature" can go **** themselves.

One of the best things about fiction or games is that if you manage to do everything right, things can actually turn out right. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:27 .

[Seboist]

Han Shot First wrote...

Death has hardly been overdone in the Mass Effect series.

Most people, myself included, have probably only lost one squad mate on their canon playthrough. The sucide mission was extremely easy to get through completely unscathed, and Shepard will only lose people if the player skips content or has Shepard make bad tactical decisions.

With that in mind I think we should lose a few people in Mass Effect 3 even when Shepard makes the right tactical decisions, or because of it. A few squad mate deaths also do not tarnish Shepard's ultimate victory in any way. Was the ending of Mass Effect 1 less satisfying because Ashley or Kaidan had died?


I would agree with that.

Yeah, it sucks that for there to be any death and drama on the SM Shepard has to act like a teenager in a horror movie that sticks his head around the corner to see if the axe murderer is still around.

[Sagar DKar]

I haven't read all the posts, but I think the point that people are missing is this is suppose to be a sort of RPG.  If I want to have a fuzzy warm ending, why can't I?  I paid $$$ for the game like everyone else.  So what if I meta game or play on casual or finish every mission, mine every planet, find every hidden thing.  I paid my $$$, give me what I want.  Know this though, I will play the crap out of this game....Paragon, Renegade, somewhere in-between.  I will play Fem Shep, Male Shep and experience every romance and scenario.  This isn't a one play done game.  I will get what storyline you want eventually Bioware...just let me choose the ones I want to do first, give me all the options like ME2.  Save everyone, kill everyone, kill some.  Choosing between teammates...ME1 & Dragon Age 2 (been there got the shirt) think how much cooler it would have been if you ccould have saved both your bro and sis.  One with the mages and one with the templars or both grey wardens or both dead.  If I want to just shoot people and have no effect or have no control if my firends die or live, then I will go play Fable or Halo.  But I want my Mass Effect storyline to end it the way that I have invested my many hours over these three games. 

I am Commander Shepard and this is my favorite game.............

[KBomb]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

Lol right. If you wanted to go by this “reality” that you think you have such a firm grasp of then go all out. I mean, honestly I doubt anyone’s chances of fighting the Reapers and actually winning is very high. If you have thousands of fleets the size of Sovereign alone it will be a war already lost. If there are hundreds of thousands, the chances that as much as 90% of life could be lost. And those who do live should just kill themselves because no way they can rebuild after that cluster****. No way Shepard can make that much of a difference. So, for reality sake Bioware should kill everyone now and stop making the game. Wouldn’t that be so emotional and grasping and real.

[DiebytheSword]

Seboist wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Death has hardly been overdone in the Mass Effect series.

Most people, myself included, have probably only lost one squad mate on their canon playthrough. The sucide mission was extremely easy to get through completely unscathed, and Shepard will only lose people if the player skips content or has Shepard make bad tactical decisions.

With that in mind I think we should lose a few people in Mass Effect 3 even when Shepard makes the right tactical decisions, or because of it. A few squad mate deaths also do not tarnish Shepard's ultimate victory in any way. Was the ending of Mass Effect 1 less satisfying because Ashley or Kaidan had died?


I would agree with that.

Yeah, it sucks that for there to be any death and drama on the SM Shepard has to act like a teenager in a horror movie that sticks his head around the corner to see if the axe murderer is still around.

Now this stance I can abide by, it was rediculous to get Shep's team killed.  I'm not saying it should be easy to save them, just possible.  Similarly, if you are overly cautious, Shep should also face consequences.  The crux of the matter is that there should be choice, and the deaths should be poignant if neccesary.  Even the way people died on the SM annoyed me to some extent.  Less so with the upgrade deaths.  Unloyal deaths were the only ones really trite, even using the wrong specialist for the job can happen.  Listening to Jacobs advice seemed to lead to death everytime though.  So I can see where they try to get you in to that situation without a silly game mechanic or sloppy writing.

[Kaiser Shepard]

[quote]Killjoy Cutter wrote...

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
[quote]Killjoy Cutter wrote...
[quote]Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
[quote]Saphra wrote...

Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

[/quote]
Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

[/quote]

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 

I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 
[/quote]

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

[/quote]

LoL... no.

"Uselessly dickish". [/quote]
So far it has never been the Renegades who resort to more personal attacks ("**** off" and "homophobe!" come to mind, Paragons).


[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

I love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed. [/quote]
Context, dear. Wanting to roleplay as a character in a game world does not equal being an old-school nerd or a larper.

[quote]Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright. 

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it. 

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been. [/quote[
Bull****; the people victimising themselves by claiming their lives are so horrible are the ones advocating a magic sugary sunshine ending.
[quote[I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy. [/quote]
Because a supposed war story being depicted as something fit for your average pre-teen is the way to go.

[AdmiralCheez]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed.

I tried D&D once.  Got as far as the character sheet and was like THE NUMBERS WHAT DO THEY MEAN?!

Aside from tabletop, though, I do some text-based roleplaying online with my friends.  I used to be pretty good at it, but my skills have deteriorated since I've joined the BSN.  Everything is your fault, you guys.

Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright.

Indeed.  I can't even list the number of times I've set down a book or turned off the TV because it was so depressing to the point of being ridiculous.  I just stopped caring.

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

Looking at how I used to view literature before I hit that awful rough patch in my life, I can't help but think that there's a bit of truth to this.  Worded a bit harshly, though.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Agreed.