4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Or maybe because people have experienced some tragedy in their everyday lives, they would like the story at least reflect real life to a certain degree.

I also don't think that most of those asking for a few squad mate deaths want the story to be grim and dark all the time. The story is hardly dark if ends with the Reapers being completely destroyed and civilization saved, even if Shepard lost a few squad mates along the way, or lost his or her own life.

[Killjoy Cutter]

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
[quote]Killjoy Cutter wrote...
[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
[quote]Killjoy Cutter wrote...
[quote]Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
[quote]Saphra wrote...

Hint: if you prefer the upbeat ending then you've got ****ty taste and there's no reasoning with you.

[/quote]
Always so needlessly d*ckish Saphra.

[/quote]

Remember my earlier comment about Bioware not being to decide what renegade really means? 
I think we know which kind some people on this thread are. 
[/quote]

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

[/quote]

LoL... no.

"Uselessly dickish". [/quote]
So far it has never been the Renegades who resort to more personal attacks ("**** off" and "homophobe!" come to mind, Paragons).
[/quote]

You missed a few, then... or several... 

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

I love how the term "roleplaying" is used on these forums. I'd love to watch some of you actually roleplay at a table and see how ultra deep you are. Assuming - that is - that you "have" actually roleplayed. [/quote]
Context, dear. Wanting to roleplay as a character in a game world does not equal being an old-school nerd or a larper.

[quote]Fallout is an excellent series - but too much grim dark is as trite as too much happy bright. 

And what is this "more realistic" crap - you people act like you've got such tragic, miserable lives - while you type on BSN about a video game. Some of you seriously need perspective about what's "dark".

People who've never experienced it - crave it. 

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been. [/quote[
Bull****; the people victimising themselves by claiming their lives are so horrible are the ones advocating a magic sugary sunshine ending.
[quote[I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy. [/quote]
Because a supposed war story being depicted as something fit for your average pre-teen is the way to go.[/quote]

As opposed to the grimdarkdeathbloodkewlgrim setting "appropriate" for the 13-16 crowd? 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:37 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Han Shot First wrote...

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Or maybe because people have experienced some tragedy in their everyday lives, they would like the story at least reflect real life to a certain degree.

I also don't think that most of those asking for a few squad mate deaths want the story to be grim and dark all the time. The story is hardly dark if ends with the Reapers being completely destroyed and civilization saved, even if Shepard lost a few squad mates along the way, or lost his or her own life.

The risk of squadmates dying, sure, if you screw things up.  (And that's what squadmates dying during the Collector base raid in ME2 represents -- you screwed the hell up.) 

Guaranteed squadmate deaths, or more Carver/Bethany cutscene bull$#!+?  Forget it, I'll spend my money elsewhere. 

[Han Shot First]

As opposed to the grimdarkdeathbloodkewlgrim setting appropriate for the 13-16 crowd?

The fairy tale ending where every one lives is more kiddie friendly than the one where a few characters die.

The risk of squadmates dying, sure, if you screw things up.  (And that's what squadmates dying during the Collector base raid in ME2 represents -- you screwed the hell up.) 

Deaths that occur only when Shepard makes tactical blunders are pointless, at least as far as giving the story any emotional impact because they come at the expense of making the protagonist incompetent, and unlikable. A suicide mission run where nearly the entire team wipes has less emotional impact than Virmire, where you only lose one squad mate.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:41 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Because a supposed war story being depicted as something fit for your average pre-teen is the way to go.

Your average pre-teen thrives on death and destruction.

Don't lie.  We were all spiteful balls of seething hatred and loathing at some point.  You can't hide that sh*tty emo poetry you wrote in the back of your math notes from me.

Oh wait.  That was just me and my best friends.  Never mind.

*tries in desperation to disassociate current self from weird goth phase in middle/high school*

[Killjoy Cutter]

Han Shot First wrote...

As opposed to the grimdarkdeathbloodkewlgrim setting appropriate for the 13-16 crowd?

The fairy tale ending where every one lives is more kiddie friendly than the one where a few characters die.

LoL @ "fairy tale ending"... whatever. 

[Kaiser Shepard]

KBomb wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Those with a grasp of reality, obviously.

Lol right. If you wanted to go by this “reality” that you think you have such a firm grasp of then go all out. I mean, honestly I doubt anyone’s chances of fighting the Reapers and actually winning is very high. If you have thousands of fleets the size of Sovereign alone it will be a war already lost. If there are hundreds of thousands, the chances that as much as 90% of life could be lost. And those who do live should just kill themselves because no way they can rebuild after that cluster****. No way Shepard can make that much of a difference. So, for reality sake Bioware should kill everyone now and stop making the game. Wouldn’t that be so emotional and grasping and real.

Honestly, I won't mind the Reaper War ultimately being unwinnable. If choice, consequence and preference ultimately come down to how you die, when you die and with whom you die, I'd actually applaud BioWare for having the guts to do so. Kind of a real-life Kobayashi Maru in videogame form; in the end, it would all come down to being a test of personality, of how you can deal with certain fears and losses. How many Reapers you and your allies can manage to take down before eventually heroically falling in battle at their side, or sacrificing yourself so that group X might live a little while longer, or being a coward that does the opposite.

Of course, no way BioWare won't cater to their emotionally unstable fanbase...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:40 .

[jeweledleah]

Han Shot First wrote...

People who've never experienced it - crave it.

The darker you want it - the more pampered I'm guessing your life has been.

I can handle well placed failure, tragedy, evil in literature - but "everything grim dark all the time" is a cruel child's fantasy.

Or maybe because people have experienced some tragedy in their everyday lives, they would like the story at least reflect real life to a certain degree.

I also don't think that most of those asking for a few squad mate deaths want the story to be grim and dark all the time. The story is hardly dark if ends with the Reapers being completely destroyed and civilization saved, even if Shepard lost a few squad mates along the way, or lost his or her own life.

see the problem with it is that you can STILl lose a few squadmates along the way.  I mean - it was possible to die in suicide mission fer cripes sakes.  but by making it impossible to save  the squadmates - you are taking away the options of those who want a more optimistic outcome.  we are not asking for an impenetrable plot armor, you know.  and no you are NOT forced into saving everyone all the time.  but you want to force US into losing everyone all the time.

P.S.  I don't want fairy tale ending.  I want an OPTION to get Star Wars episode 6 ending.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:40 .

[SlottsMachine]

Nyoka wrote...

People want events out of control of Shepard's hands? I guess we can finally have our s/s LI hitting on us without people complaining on the boards.

I enjoyed this. We want realism right.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Of course, no way BioWare won't cater to their emotionally unstable fanbase...

They can't afford not to.  I buy all their sh*t.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

As opposed to the grimdarkdeathbloodkewlgrim setting "appropriate" for the 13-16 crowd?

If that is the way to maintain verisimilitude - you know, that thing you have listed in your sig - then yeah.

[Sgt Stryker]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Because a supposed war story being depicted as something fit for your average pre-teen is the way to go.

Your average pre-teen thrives on death and destruction.

Don't lie.  We were all spiteful balls of seething hatred and loathing at some point.  You can't hide that sh*tty emo poetry you wrote in the back of your math notes from me.

Oh wait.  That was just me and my best friends.  Never mind.

*tries in desperation to disassociate current self from weird goth phase in middle/high school*

I never wrote sh*tty emo poetry at that age. No, for me, Rome: Total War and other strategy games were my outlet for my violent tendencies. Nothing like watching thousands of digital legionaries kill and die at your command....

Um, where were we?

P.S.  I don't want fairy tale ending.  I want an OPTION to get Star Wars episode 6 ending.

Keep in mind that after Episode 6, the Empire was still around, just without an Emperor. I don't want that for ME3. I want the Reapers to become extinct when all is said and done.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:46 .

[Han Shot First]

see the problem with it is that you can STILl lose a few squadmates along the way.  I mean - it was possible to die in suicide mission fer cripes sakes.  but by making it impossible to save  the squadmates - you are taking away the options of those who want a more optimistic outcome.  we are not asking for an impenetrable plot armor, you know.  and no you are NOT forced into saving everyone all the time.  but you want to force US into losing everyone all the time.

P.S.  I don't want fairy tale ending.  I want an OPTION to get Star Wars episode 6 ending.

I might be ok with an 'everyone lives' ending so long as it is not the ideal ening this time around like it was in Mass Effect 2. In that scenario those are willing to make some tough choices even when it puts their squad mates at risk, may lose some along the way, but the Reapers are defeated sooner and with less overall death and destruction to the galaxy at large. Those who are more cautious and unwilling to risk their squad mates lives manage to get them through all unscathed, but it takes a little longer to defeat the Reapers and there is greater death and destruction to the galaxy as a whole.

I never wrote sh*tty emo poetry at that age.

I'm ashamed to admit that I predate emo. Or at least, it wasn't as big as it was now since I never heard of it until I was in my 20s. Grunge was king back then. (Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, ect)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

If that is the way to maintain verisimilitude - you know, that thing you have listed in your sig - then yeah.

Tell you what, Kaiser: everyone dies and the Reapers auto-win IF AND ONLY IF you have no choice but to bang Vega as BroShep and romance-related dialogue and interaction takes up 50% of non-combat scenarios.

Fair compromise?

[AdmiralCheez]

Han Shot First wrote...

I might be ok with an 'everyone lives' ending so long as it is not the ideal ening this time around like it was in Mass Effect 2. In that scenario those are willing to make some tough choices even when it puts their squad mates at risk, may lose some along the way, but the Reapers are defeated sooner and with less overall death and destruction to the galaxy at large. Those who are more cautious and unwilling to risk their squad mates lives manage to get them through all unscathed, but it takes a little longer to defeat the Reapers and there is greater death and destruction to the galaxy as a whole.

This compromise has come up several times and most people have agreed with it.

LET'S DO IT.

[KBomb]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

*snip*
Of course, no way BioWare won't cater to their emotionally unstable fanbase...

Aren’t you a bit full of yourself lol. Emotionally unstable fan base, you say? As opposed to what? The emotional retarded fan base? Come on, stop being so egotistical. Wanting forcible deaths does not make you more mature or emotionally stable. It doesn’t make you have improved cultural taste or give you a heads up in reality. And the “pre-teen” comment was full of ridiculousness too. I work with teens and work at a high school and I can tell you they are very much preoccupied with death and grimness and the darker aspects of things. But by all means, keep stroking your ego and your pseudo superiority. It comes down to preference and opinion. The majority are not asking for the “death ending” to be taken out, but asking that they have an option to sacrifice and work hard to get an ending where their squad mates can live.

[AdmiralCheez]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Again, I don't mind this, but I'm worried about it simply being a "completionist's win" thing. Surely you can understand that.

I can, because as so many have pointed out, one clearly superior solution over all other outcomes again reduces the game to linearity.  I don't agree with that point of view, but I understand it.

All I want is more bitter than sweet if I can have it, and for Ashley and Garrus and whomever to not bite it no matter what I do.  I saved their asses in previous installments for a reason, god damn it.

[SlottsMachine]

 The realistic ending of ME3.

The Normandy is floating through space, when a Reaper arrives.

Shep: Oh sh*t its a Reaper, do something Joker.
Joker: Like what?
Shep: Pew pew
Joker shrugs 
Shep: ****

The Reaper blows the Normandy the hell up, and then just in case Cerberus has plans, the Reaper waits for the debris to hit the surface of a nearby planet. Then proceeds to bombard the Normandy remains, you know to make sure there dead.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:11 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

It's all about choice imo. Shepards who make largescale sacrifices on the galactic stage, just in order to save their squadmates or stop them from getting scarred-up and damaged, should end up being condemned for their anti-heroic actions. I think it would be pretty powerful to then have those squadmates scorn Shepard personally for burdening them with that kind of emotional weight, and for foregoing the needs of the many for those of the few.

How about this compromise: in order to save everyone on your team, you'll have to condemn many more to death, and end up losing the trust/ respect of several of your squadmates for making such short-sighted decisions. That, to me, would be the only acceptable way to do it.

[Aggie Punbot]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Again, I don't mind this, but I'm worried about it simply being a "completionist's win" thing. Surely you can understand that.

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."  ~ Homer Simpson ~

[Kaiser Shepard]

[quote]KBomb wrote...

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...

*snip*
Of course, no way BioWare won't cater to their emotionally unstable fanbase...
[/quote]Aren’t you a bit full of yourself lol.[/quote]

I don't feel like I am, but if that's the way I come across to you then surely I'm doing something right.

[quote]Emotionally unstable fan base, you say? As opposed to what? The emotional retarded fan base?[/quote]
Those are the same.

[quote]Come on, stop being so egotistical.[/quote]
Ah yes, villainising me while you guys are the oppressive group. Haven't seen that one in a while.

[quote]Wanting forcible deaths does not make you more mature or emotionally stable.[/quote]
Apparently it does, because those unable to "cope" with the "deaths" of their virtual "friends" appear to be less stable than the others.

[quote]It doesn’t make you have improved cultural taste[/quote]
Au contraire, it does.

[quote]or give you a heads up in reality.[/quote]
That it does as well.

[quote]And the “pre-teen” comment was full of ridiculousness too. I work with teens and work at a high school and I can tell you they are very much preoccupied with death and grimness and the darker aspects of things.[/quote]
That doesn't mean they're able to cope with the reality of it, though.

[quote]But by all means, keep stroking your ego and your pseudo superiority.[/quote]
I don't have to; you're already doing it for me.

[quote]It comes down to preference and opinion.[/quote]
It comes down to having good taste or not, and being able the place story integrity before your fickle emotions.

[quote]The majority are not asking for the “death ending” to be taken out, but asking that they have an option to sacrifice and work hard to get an ending where their squad mates can live. [/quote]
In other words, like with ME2 the people wanting a darker ending have to work for it by skipping content while everyone who plays the game normally gets to have his cake and eat it, in a scenario that involves an galactic war against giant machine cthulhu?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:22 .

[BlueMagitek]

In other words, like with ME2 the people wanting a darker ending have to work for it by skipping content while everyone who plays the game normally gets to have his cake and eat it, in a scenario that involves an galactic war against giant machine cthulhu?

Oh you munchkins, always complaining about how I took Enhance Water. Listen, my gnome had a need for booze, so six pints a day from poison liquid is quite a steal.

Here's the thing, it was brought up earlier that the existence of a pure white ending invalidates the two grey options. But I could have sworn that Bioware has already confirmed the existance of a black ending (the Reapers win). So the existence of a grey ending invalidates that one. That doesn't mean we should take it out. So just because there's a white ending doesn't invalidate the other endings. You pick the path and there you go. ~_^

Stop hatin' on the role players.

[KBomb]

KBomb wrote…
But by all means, keep stroking your ego and your pseudo superiority.

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I don't have to; you're already doing it for me.

　
Lol glad to see you admit to you having a pseudo superiority complex. My work is done.

As to the rest: Show me where I ever said ME2 SM was wonderful and I think ME3 should have the same choice and consequence. Stop building a straw man. And while you’re at it, learn the difference between coping skills and preference because I never said I couldn’t cope with it. I said I wanted an option for my squad mates to live and I would be willing to sacrifice others to do so. I think Dave of Canada had a good plan and I remember seeing lots of people who are in favor of squad mate life agree with him. You’re the one making yourself into a villain so you can praise your own taste and EQ. lol

Modifié par KBomb, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:41 .