You just made like, 6 posts in a row, uninterrupted.
And it would have been seven, if not for you kids.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 08 octobre 2011 - 02:31 .
Let me save them.
Débuté par
AdmiralCheez
, oct. 07 2011 05:44
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#626
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 02:30
Killjoy Cutter
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And it would have been seven, if not for you kids.
Retour en haut
#627
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 02:37
BlueMagitek
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And your pesky Keeper too!
...couldn't resist. ~_^
...couldn't resist. ~_^
#628
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:20
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*rages at lack of middle ground on the topic*
#629
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:28
BlueMagitek
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I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
#630
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:29
sorentoft
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The priiize?AdmiralCheez wrote...
I'm worth the risk, baby.Valdrane78 wrote...
So are you saying that you'll give me the clap.........................
#632
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:35
BatmanPWNS
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JeffZero wrote...
Well.
This thread exploded.
They always do.
#633
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:35
sorentoft
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Everything remotely related to Shepard does end with a huge explosion.JeffZero wrote...
Well.
This thread exploded.
#634
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:35
JeffZero
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That is true.
EDIT: Both of your responses are quite true.
EDIT: Both of your responses are quite true.
Modifié par JeffZero, 08 octobre 2011 - 05:36 .
#635
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:36
Killjoy Cutter
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BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
That pretty much sums it up.
Well, side B is more like "Because we have this warped notion that only grittydarkpainful stories in which people lose and suffer and die and fail and wangst and also fail are valid for anyone over the age of six, that's what ME3 should be, and anyone who doesn't agree is immature and has emotional problems."
#636
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Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:39
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BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
Yeah there is, look back in the thread. I for instance would prefer at least one non-player-created death on the team, but I said it would be alright if it was truly HARD to lose no one.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
That pretty much sums it up.
Well, side B is more like "Because we have this warped notion that only grittydarkpainful stories in which people lose and suffer and die and fail and wangst and also fail are valid for anyone over the age of six, that's what ME3 should be, and anyone who doesn't agree is immature and has emotional problems."
Come on, are you really any better when you make silly generalizations like that? I don't feel that way.
Modifié par EternalAmbiguity, 08 octobre 2011 - 05:40 .
#637
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:43
sponge56
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xentar wrote...
Realistically, we shouldn't be able to win.
Realisticaly Hitler shouldn't have invaded Russia
'Unrealistic' things happen all the time in real life, just becasue its improbable doesnt make it impossible
#638
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:50
D.Kain
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I think that everybody saved should be canon for one simple reason - it is going to be easier to make future ME games, without having to go through a huge time overlap, to justify everything going back no normal.
#639
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:52
DarthSliver
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I want to be able to save everyone and I would like it to be hard to save everyone, I believe thats exactly what OP said in that manner. I mean people play video games few quite a few reason, but many are to escape the Real World drama as they play the games. If Bioware made the game like stuff is in real life than why would i want to buy their games.
I dont know if there is a middle ground but Bioware could make things not so obvious when it comes to saving someone. Making it where we problay wouldnt save everyone in the first playthrough but it is possible once you know the in and outs of the game. Leaving that feel of a choice for the people who wanna feel they have to choose but also allowing people to save everyone at the same time.
I dont know if there is a middle ground but Bioware could make things not so obvious when it comes to saving someone. Making it where we problay wouldnt save everyone in the first playthrough but it is possible once you know the in and outs of the game. Leaving that feel of a choice for the people who wanna feel they have to choose but also allowing people to save everyone at the same time.
#640
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:53
D.Kain
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sponge56 wrote...
xentar wrote...
Realistically, we shouldn't be able to win.
Realisticaly Hitler shouldn't have invaded Russia
'Unrealistic' things happen all the time in real life, just becasue its improbable doesnt make it impossible
The war was inavitable.
I'm from europe, and we learn that if Germany wouldn't attack The Soviet Union then The Soviet Union would attack Germany. Hitler was just faster, and had more messed up colonizing ideas, that involved burning people.
#641
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Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:54
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BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
The sides I see are:
A: I want to save everyone and try as hard as I possibly can to win, and have main characters die along the way despite that, to make the story more emotionally engaging, more realistic, and ultimately make the ending feel less hollow and more satisfying and triumphant.
B: I want to save everyone and try as hard as I possibly can to win, and have no one die along the way so that I get an ending that, while less realistic, will make me feel happier because real life, with all its hardships, is something I want to escape from.
The italicised bit is where I think the conflict is. In the Suicide Mission, if you do the best you possibly can, everyone wins no matter what; unless you're a casual or first time player, the only way for people to die in the SM is to contrive for it to happen, and why would anyone do that?
Personally I think one solution might be to make it possible for everyone on the squad live, IF the only way to do it is to sacrifice a population (or something like that); but if you choose to save as many populations as possible, it'll result in a squad death at some point.
In any case, I'm pretty sure there's nothing we can do - the devs have talked being on their nteenth playthrough so can't imagine they can change too much to the story now.
#642
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:57
BlueMagitek
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EternalAmbiguity wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
Yeah there is, look back in the thread. I for instance would prefer at least one non-player-created death on the team, but I said it would be alright if it was truly HARD to lose no one.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
That pretty much sums it up.
Well, side B is more like "Because we have this warped notion that only grittydarkpainful stories in which people lose and suffer and die and fail and wangst and also fail are valid for anyone over the age of six, that's what ME3 should be, and anyone who doesn't agree is immature and has emotional problems."
Come on, are you really any better when you make silly generalizations like that? I don't feel that way.
That puts you in Side A because you believe there should be a way of achieving a "gold" ending.
And come on now, Side B isn't all that bad; there's nothing wrong with wanting an ending that results in both good and bad outcomes which leaves you wondering which was the correct way to go. As they have said, there being a "gold" path makes them feel that their endings are "cheap" because, as it turns out, there is a way for everything to work out okay. Where they're wrong is that they assme they'll have to "act stupid" to *not* attain it.
Of course, I'd say something about munchkins, but I'm really too tired to do so right now. ~_^
#643
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:58
JeffZero
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AwesomeName wrote...
the only way for people to die in the SM is to contrive for it to happen, and why would anyone do that?
Well... I do that regularly. I don't enjoy it -- metagaming is a bore -- but it's all I can do to give myself that realistic edge I enjoy from the story.
It should be noted that I'm firmly in the camp of "give everyone the ending they want" in this matter though, so Cheez can have her cake and eat it too while Dave and I must sacrifice the cake in order to eat it. Or something.
I'd just like it to be a good bit harder for Cheez to get that happy ending this time around. I don't think she'd be too opposed to that...?
#644
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 05:59
sponge56
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D.Kain wrote...
The war was inavitable.
I'm from europe, and we learn that if Germany wouldn't attack The Soviet Union then The Soviet Union would attack Germany. Hitler was just faster, and had more messed up colonizing ideas, that involved burning people.
My point was that things don't make sense in real life, so it seems even more bizzare that they would wish utter realism within fiction
#645
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 06:27
KBomb
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I don’t want a “good ending” because I want to escape from my real life. I have a pretty awesome life. I don’t want a “good ending” because I can’t cope with the emotions of death. That’s ****ing stupid. Were that the case I would never be able to watch television or movies, since the clichéd death scenes seem to take up most writing in Hollywood nowadays and I have the EQ to realize it’s fiction and not real. I don’t want a “good ending” because I have bad taste in writing. I have read enough literature to know that you don’t have to have death and grimness in order to have a well written story that draws you in emotionally or otherwise.
I want the option for a “good ending” because this is my gaming experience the same as it is anyone else’s. I have invested hundreds of hours between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I don’t expect everyone to live, I don’t expect to save every planet or every species. I don’t want marriage or babies for my character. I don’t expect Shepard riding off into the sunset at the end of ME3 while “You’re the best around” plays in the background. I want the chance to save my squad mates and if I have to work hard to do it, sacrifice species, planets and other people I.e. Anderson, Wrex, to do it, I am okay with that. I want the “good ending” because when I turn off ME3 after beating it, I want that same satisfaction and triumphant feeling that those who want the “death and sacrifice” ending have. After all, I have invested just as much into this game as they have and I deserve that feeling too.
I want the option for a “good ending” because this is my gaming experience the same as it is anyone else’s. I have invested hundreds of hours between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I don’t expect everyone to live, I don’t expect to save every planet or every species. I don’t want marriage or babies for my character. I don’t expect Shepard riding off into the sunset at the end of ME3 while “You’re the best around” plays in the background. I want the chance to save my squad mates and if I have to work hard to do it, sacrifice species, planets and other people I.e. Anderson, Wrex, to do it, I am okay with that. I want the “good ending” because when I turn off ME3 after beating it, I want that same satisfaction and triumphant feeling that those who want the “death and sacrifice” ending have. After all, I have invested just as much into this game as they have and I deserve that feeling too.
Modifié par KBomb, 08 octobre 2011 - 06:29 .
#646
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 06:33
AdmiralCheez
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*nods in agreement*AwesomeName wrote...
The sides I see are:
A: I want to save everyone and try as hard as I possibly can to win, and have main characters die along the way despite that, to make the story more emotionally engaging, more realistic, and ultimately make the ending feel less hollow and more satisfying and triumphant.
B: I want to save everyone and try as hard as I possibly can to win, and have no one die along the way so that I get an ending that, while less realistic, will make me feel happier because real life, with all its hardships, is something I want to escape from.
The italicised bit is where I think the conflict is. In the Suicide Mission, if you do the best you possibly can, everyone wins no matter what; unless you're a casual or first time player, the only way for people to die in the SM is to contrive for it to happen, and why would anyone do that?
Personally I think one solution might be to make it possible for everyone on the squad live, IF the only way to do it is to sacrifice a population (or something like that); but if you choose to save as many populations as possible, it'll result in a squad death at some point.
In any case, I'm pretty sure there's nothing we can do - the devs have talked being on their nteenth playthrough so can't imagine they can change too much to the story now.
#647
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 06:58
Killjoy Cutter
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EternalAmbiguity wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
Yeah there is, look back in the thread. I for instance would prefer at least one non-player-created death on the team, but I said it would be alright if it was truly HARD to lose no one.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm not sure there is a middle ground here. I mean:
Side A: There should be a way to save everybody, in addition to the other endings, even if achieving it is really hard.
Side B: No, there should not be a way to save everybody.
Fringe B: There should be no way to win at all!
That pretty much sums it up.
Well, side B is more like "Because we have this warped notion that only grittydarkpainful stories in which people lose and suffer and die and fail and wangst and also fail are valid for anyone over the age of six, that's what ME3 should be, and anyone who doesn't agree is immature and has emotional problems."
Come on, are you really any better when you make silly generalizations like that? I don't feel that way.
I've tried to read the whole thread, but I'm sure I've missed some things.
Why do you YOU want it to be exceedingly hard to get through ME3 without losing a squadmate?
#648
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 06:59
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BlueMagitek wrote...
That puts you in Side A because you believe there should be a way of achieving a "gold" ending.
And come on now, Side B isn't all that bad; there's nothing wrong with wanting an ending that results in both good and bad outcomes which leaves you wondering which was the correct way to go. As they have said, there being a "gold" path makes them feel that their endings are "cheap" because, as it turns out, there is a way for everything to work out okay. Where they're wrong is that they assme they'll have to "act stupid" to *not* attain it.
Of course, I'd say something about munchkins, but I'm really too tired to do so right now. ~_^
*Scratches head*
I don't think you understand. I won't ask you to go back through this thread, cause there's a lot of bilge, but I AGREE with what you wrote here. That's what I WANT. However, it would be acceptable in my eyes if they did it the side A way, as long as it wasn't a "completionist's win" thing.
So again, what you described up there IS me.
#649
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Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 07:02
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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I've tried to read the whole thread, but I'm sure I've missed some things.
Why do you YOU want it to be exceedingly hard to get through ME3 without losing a squadmate?
Because to me, that makes it more realistic: people die in war, and often soldiers. And, as much as some would like to say so, the deaths of faceless people will not affect someone AS MUCH (as much, not "at all") as the death of someone near. I feel it would make the story more poigant.
And, I DON'T feel that people who don't want what I want are "immature" with "emotional problems." You shouldn't generalize like that, is what I'm saying. Each side has valid points.
#650
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Posté 08 octobre 2011 - 07:04
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I disagree on the suicide mission. You say, "if you do the best you possibly can, everyone wins no matter what". Well, something matters: as you said, everyone wins *if you do the best you possibly can*. Which means you have to memorize every step of the game to know when the different missions are going to be triggered. Your Shepard can't possibly know that. That's you metagaming.
In one of my last playthroughs, I didn't have Tali and Legion was unloyal, so when the crew was kidnapped, I had to choose between going right away to the suicide mission to save the crew or get myself a loyal tech specialist so I could make it through the vents without any squadmate dying. That happened to me because I wasn't calculating in advance what was going to happen, I was just playing the game, doing things the way I thought my Shepard would do. Role playing. For this playthrough I had done the Kellymance and was mad as hell to have her taken away, so I went directly to the SM and Legion was destroyed.
Now, if you directly discard role playing and plan ahead every step of the way specifically to get the everyone survives ending, then yeah I can see how not doing one of those steps can feel contrived, but not more contrived than planning the perfect ending. You're planning beforehand in both cases. Moreover, if people here are arguing that bad consequences are cooler than the perfect ending, then why don't they just plan ahead to get the outcome they think is cooler, the same way they plan ahead for the perfect ending? Didn't they want to experience a good drama on their own terms? Seems to me like the underlying thought is "my own particular style of playing kills people, therefore everyone else must have people killed too."
I think it's okay if they make it exceedingly hard, so much harder than in ME2 to get the perfect ending. Do it extremely difficult; it should be! You should feel like a demigod after getting a perfect outcome. But the possibility should be there.
In one of my last playthroughs, I didn't have Tali and Legion was unloyal, so when the crew was kidnapped, I had to choose between going right away to the suicide mission to save the crew or get myself a loyal tech specialist so I could make it through the vents without any squadmate dying. That happened to me because I wasn't calculating in advance what was going to happen, I was just playing the game, doing things the way I thought my Shepard would do. Role playing. For this playthrough I had done the Kellymance and was mad as hell to have her taken away, so I went directly to the SM and Legion was destroyed.
Now, if you directly discard role playing and plan ahead every step of the way specifically to get the everyone survives ending, then yeah I can see how not doing one of those steps can feel contrived, but not more contrived than planning the perfect ending. You're planning beforehand in both cases. Moreover, if people here are arguing that bad consequences are cooler than the perfect ending, then why don't they just plan ahead to get the outcome they think is cooler, the same way they plan ahead for the perfect ending? Didn't they want to experience a good drama on their own terms? Seems to me like the underlying thought is "my own particular style of playing kills people, therefore everyone else must have people killed too."
I think it's okay if they make it exceedingly hard, so much harder than in ME2 to get the perfect ending. Do it extremely difficult; it should be! You should feel like a demigod after getting a perfect outcome. But the possibility should be there.
Modifié par Nyoka, 08 octobre 2011 - 07:08 .
