4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Well this is why Star Wars* kicks arse - because the little guy ends up beating the odds and kicking the powerful bad guy square in the bawls - in space.

Their overthrowing of the Empire left them unprepared for an invasion, which was the entire reason why the Death Stars were being created, leaving the invaders to effortlessly destroy half the galaxy and kill bajillions of people.

Consequences of their decisions, it's not all happy.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:59 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Rojahar wrote...

If Shepard wants to prioritize saving his or her personal friends... it should come at the cost of civilians, worlds, etc. Have the galaxy be worse off, because you had to be selfish and couldn't let go of someone. And it shouldn't just be faceless numbers which the game makes no effort to make you care about, like the lives lost if you use the human fleet to shield the Council in ME1. No, it should be personal and confrontational. It should have just as much weight as losing a squadmate you've loved since the first game. What you gain/save with one decision for the player should not have substantially more value than what you gain/save with the other decision for the player. Otherwise, it's not even much of a choice.

I'm good with this.

Granted, dropping an entire civilization just for Liara would seem a bit overkill...

Heh.  Overkill.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because people prefer various degrees of "suck". They might enjoy that we've defeated the Reapers and humanity is rebuilding to a new feature, they might enjoy that humanity is screwed in face of the Turians knocking them while they're down, they might enjoy that the galaxy has united and is trying to rebuild despite the destruction of Thessia / Earth / Palaven.

And that's why we have multiple endings.

What's the point of having other endings if you have one where you "win" on all fronts other than if you want to be intentionally stupid on your playthrough or if you want to see how it's like to fail? There's no point.

It gives you a goal to work towards and a reason to come back and try something else.

And I'd hardly consider being able to save half a dozen specific individuals a "win" on all fronts.

[Dave of Canada]

Some people claimed they'd destroy all of humanity for Liara, so it's not that overkill. They'd have to make the choice between destroying the galaxy and killing Liara and maybe then I'd have doubts.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Great post Admiral. I'm very happy with how much of an escape from reality the mass effect games are, particularly at this current point in time while dealing with a bad break up. I can't thank Bioware enough.

[DoNotIngest]

Plastic Bottle for squadmate and bi LI in ME3.

[Inquisitor Recon]

DoNotIngest wrote...
Plastic Bottle for squadmate and bi LI in ME3.

No, you get styrofoam cup and like it.

[Bekkael]

ReconTeam wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...
Plastic Bottle for squadmate and bi LI in ME3.

No, you get styrofoam cup and like it.

Is that how they do it in the future...styrofoam?

[Aggie Punbot]

Dave of Canada wrote...

What's the point of having other endings if you have one where you "win" on all fronts other than if you want to be intentionally stupid on your playthrough or if you want to see how it's like to fail? There's no point.

All due respect, Dave, what is the point of fighting a war that is unwinnable right from the beginning? If the galaxy is done for no matter what you do, why bother trying at all?

Allowing an option to get a "happy ending" is (as AdmiralCheez so aptly put it) a worthy goal to strive for. You want it to be impossible? Only play on Insanity. If that's still not hard enough? Mod it to make it even harder. Not everyone wants to be bothered with fighting a battle that is just not winnable.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:13 .

[DoNotIngest]

ReconTeam wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...
Plastic Bottle for squadmate and bi LI in ME3.

No, you get styrofoam cup and like it.

Psh, please. Styrofoam Cup is an oversexualized character who betrays Shep and has a cheesy romance scene, who follows Shep blindly like a sheep, who I never took out on missions and who I never talked to, who I talked to and was completely bored by, whose loyalty mission I didn't do and they still survived. Lame.


And he wouldn't let me ****** in him and tell Jack it was mountain dew. SO MAD.

[AdmiralCheez]

Rojahar wrote...

Nobody really cares if a bunch of nameless, faceless NPCs are killed though. People care too much about named characters you get to know getting killed though. Sacrificing the human lives to save the Council in ME1, for example...
does it at all compare to sacrificing either Ashley or Kaidan? What can equal the feeling of sacrificing their favorite character in the series for a player? I imagine even my suggestion wouldn't be enough for most people to even bat an eyelash. They'd instantly scoff and save their character, then MAYBE complain they can't ALSO prevent ALL lives from being lost in the galactic war.

It's less nameless, faceless NPCs when the game gets in your face about it.

Example: Being confronted by a man whose family you just bombed the sh*t out of because you deemed his home colony too overrun by husks to save.  Walking in on Ash almost crying because she just got a message confirming that Sarah didn't make it.  Garrus confronting you when you decide to screw over Palaven in favor of another homeworld, to the point where it comes to screaming, blows, and possibly gunshots.  Hearing a recording like in Tali's loyalty mission ("mommy loves you very much").

[DoNotIngest]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

Nobody really cares if a bunch of nameless, faceless NPCs are killed though. People care too much about named characters you get to know getting killed though. Sacrificing the human lives to save the Council in ME1, for example...
does it at all compare to sacrificing either Ashley or Kaidan? What can equal the feeling of sacrificing their favorite character in the series for a player? I imagine even my suggestion wouldn't be enough for most people to even bat an eyelash. They'd instantly scoff and save their character, then MAYBE complain they can't ALSO prevent ALL lives from being lost in the galactic war.

It's less nameless, faceless NPCs when the game gets in your face about it.

Example: Being confronted by a man whose family you just bombed the sh*t out of because you deemed his home colony too overrun by husks to save.  Walking in on Ash almost crying because she just got a message confirming that Sarah didn't make it.  Garrus confronting you when you decide to screw over Palaven in favor of another homeworld, to the point where it comes to screaming, blows, and possibly gunshots.  Hearing a recording like in Tali's loyalty mission ("mommy loves you very much").

Well, now you have my mind wandering down that path...


Speaking with Wrex after throwing most of the Krogan race against the Reaper Walkers.

Meeting Conrad Verner after you've abandoned Earth.

Facing Tali after arranging Geth/Quarian peace and then sacrificing Rannoch.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:18 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Rather than reiterating, I'll quote myself on a post I made in the Illusive Man thread last week:

To be quite honest with you, Xili, the only reason I prefer Paragon over Renegade (I play both anyway) is because the Paragon version shows me what I may never see in the real world. I don't know about you, but to me, it truly is a humbling experience playing the role of someone who fights for galactic equality. I don't care if it actually ends up that way, but as long as I know I'm working on it and might just witness it one day, I'm rather satisfied.

Original

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Dave of Canada]

TS2Aggie wrote...

All due respect, Dave, what is the point of fighting a war that is unwinnable right from the beginning? If the galaxy is done for no matter what you do, why bother trying at all?

Because I'm not advocating for an unwinnable ending, I'm advocating for bittersweet endings where you don't win the battle without loss. Here's what I was advocating even before we knew anything about ME3:

You're a paragon, you refuse to compromise your morals and you try to be nice and save everybody (which ultimately fails a few times) but due to the Alien Council's passive nature and without the tech gained from the Collector Base you're put at a major disadvantage. The end result of the Paragon ending would be that the alien species and humanity would stand more united at the cost of more casualties, you look for a brighter future... you just have more corpses that you need to build upon.

You're a renegade, you sacrifice your people and use the weapon surplus from the cold war and the technology from the Collector Base. Having a stronger army, you stop the Reapers and the damage could've easily been much worse. While there's more people around, the galaxy is fractured and species are rebuilding for themselves. The corpse pile is personal but smaller, you just don't know for how much longer.

Including varying mixes of both endings.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:30 .

[neenee77]

I play this game because it is so different from my real life experience. in this game i have power. In this game i have the power to do the right thing and it helps people. it makes a difference. it doesn't matter how big or small the choices are in the game, they make me feel good. these choices make it feel real on some level in my brain and makes the story that much more intense. I was actually shocked when i watched the me1 storyline on youtube (have ps3) and saw that you have to make a choice between ash and kaiden (is that his name). i really hope and pray that i can save everyone in me3, even if that means that my shepard sacrifices herself in order to do that. I dont want to have to choose between favorites. i will if i have to but i am not looking forward to it. I agree with the op, if we can have a slim chance of saving eveyone then yes i will play my heart out as long as it takes to save them all. even if that is my 100 playthrough. The reward would bring me to tears just as much if not more than losing them in the first place. Then i would play it over and over again just to see everyone happy. Real life sucks for most of us right now and to rub it in with no hope of changing it in a game that supposed to be "fun" is actually really depressing. i can just go outside my house to just about any job interview for that crap, or look at my disabled child towards the end of the month when we run low on food to see and feel that kind of seriousness.
Dragon age 2 didn't bother me as much (although i did cry a few times) because i was not invested in the characters the way I am with mass effect. I dont think that bioware would do that to us. more specifically i dont think that they would just kill off our beloved friends and li's in the game that we have spent so much time with without any hope of saving them, a very good death, or both. ugh, crossing my fingers for a happy ending.

[darthnick427]

I agree op. Mass Effect is a wonderful escape from reality when life is at it's worst and you can;t do anything about it. I share your wish to get a possible ending where all the people I care about in this series make it out alive. If not everyone, then at least the Normandy crew of the 3 games and Anderson

[jeweledleah]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

Nobody really cares if a bunch of nameless, faceless NPCs are killed though. People care too much about named characters you get to know getting killed though. Sacrificing the human lives to save the Council in ME1, for example...
does it at all compare to sacrificing either Ashley or Kaidan? What can equal the feeling of sacrificing their favorite character in the series for a player? I imagine even my suggestion wouldn't be enough for most people to even bat an eyelash. They'd instantly scoff and save their character, then MAYBE complain they can't ALSO prevent ALL lives from being lost in the galactic war.

It's less nameless, faceless NPCs when the game gets in your face about it.

Example: Being confronted by a man whose family you just bombed the sh*t out of because you deemed his home colony too overrun by husks to save.  Walking in on Ash almost crying because she just got a message confirming that Sarah didn't make it.  Garrus confronting you when you decide to screw over Palaven in favor of another homeworld, to the point where it comes to screaming, blows, and possibly gunshots.  Hearing a recording like in Tali's loyalty mission ("mommy loves you very much").

that recording in Tali's mission (and recording from one of the scientists in bring down the skies)  always makes me tear up a bit. cheesy or not, it made me sad.

that said - I don't think I'll ever understand why people want mysery in their entertainment.  why are they so dead set on experiencing thedark and the dreary.  don't they have enough of that in real life?  and if theydon't maybe they should volounteer at the shelter or something, go to 3rd world country as a missionary...

funny thing though... despite litteraly critics going all gaga about the dark and the dreary, you know which genre of the books sells the most copies?  romance novels.  yep.  you know why?  because its the ONLY genre that guarantees happy ending.

becasue in the end - while there are many those who thrive on schadenfreude, there are more of those who just want to be happy and feel good.

[Undead Han]

The main problem for me is why should I lessen myself and purposefully do worse in order to create drama? By default people are completionist (the majority of people). I didn't go SM until I had all the upgrades because well that's just the logical thing to do. Another problem is that Shep is not a god and can't have control over the entire battleground or everything that happens.

Well said.

Whenever these discussions pop up there are always a few who will say that those of us who want there to be a few squad mate deaths, can simply chose to skip content or have Shepard make tactical blunders in order to get them.

There are two problems with that argument. The first is that if you skip content you aren't getting your money's worth. Why would anyone pay close to $60.00 for a game and then only play half of it? The second problem  is that if squad mates only die if Shepard makes tactical blunders, their deaths don't have anywhere near the same emotional impact as Shepard doing everything right and losing a couple people anyway. (or even because of it)
Those deaths then comes at the expense of the main character being made incompetent and it removes any emotional weight those death scenes may have ortherwise had.

I'm against a 'everyone lives' ending at all, unless it is the less than ideal ending this time around.
 
In that case the best possible ending as far as the fate of the galaxy goes, would be one in which Shepard's team has lost a few people along the way, and where Shepard has showed a willingness to make tough decisions even when it put his own team at risk. The 'everyone lives' ending would be one in which Shepard was sometimes overly cautious and unwilling to make tough decisions when it put his own team at risk. As a result they all make it through, but it takes longer to defeat the Reapers, and the galaxy as a whole sustains much greater damage.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:45 .

[Dave of Canada]

Pretty much. I finished the Suicide Mission on my first playthrough without a death and thought to myself "That's it?". Any deaths had to be done because my Shepard unintentionally hit his head before the scene and he didn't realize Tali wouldn't make a good fire team later.

Which kills the mood big time because it's not emotional at all.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:45 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

You can have me believe the scientificly impossible, in FTL, in blue space babes, in resurection technology. If done well.

But don't make me buy a BS excuse like a guy managing to crack a safe code with 10x10x10x10x10 combinations in his first try without any kind of hint or clue. Or a man just happening to find a remote control right beside him, which in turn just happens to be able to stop space-time-continium, which in turn allows him to save the girl and beat the bad guy.

I don't get the analogy.

Sorry for responding late. But I am also currently desperatly trying to finish my history report that is to be delivered in 5 hours!

What I meant was this. You can have me belive in the scientificly impossible. Like FTL travel or blue space babes. But you can¨t have me buy impossible/implasuible/unlogical turn of events.

Look, I know you prefer a realistic ending, but what's the point in
having more than one if they all suck?  Do you honestly think Bioware
should cut in on someone else's enjoyment just because the very
existence of that enjoyment does bad things to your immersion?  You
probably won't even know about it until you mosey on into the forums
after you've done your first run.

I am not asking for depressing I-am-going-to-hang-myself-now endings. Look at ME1, did you find that ending depressing? No, yet you still suffered casuelties. You had your victory, but there was still a price to it. A price that would always be there no matter how hard you tried.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Undertone]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Undertone wrote...

The main problem for me is why should I lessen myself and purposefully do worse in order to create drama?

And why should I have to waste time and mine for minerals just to create the ending I want?

That's not the point. The point is you and I did the same thing (I would probably guess the majority of gamers did the same) - we did as many quests as possible and got as many upgrades as possible. I mean come on - extra shields for the Normandy... hmmmm why would I ever need this? Extra armor for the Normandy... hmmm do I need this? Reaper Cannon (keke correct term this time) - ... you get my logic. 

So basically what happened is you and I did the same thing - you felt rewarded with the ending you got. I felt unchallenged. 

Modifié par Undertone, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:12 .

[The Elder King]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Undertone wrote...

I also don't want to play like a retard to lose people.

So would you be okay with a zero squad death ending if it were basically impossible to achieve without an incredible attention to detail and sacrifices made in other areas?

I'd be okay with this.