4309 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

[quote]Athayniel wrote...

The only thing being asked for is the chance to save squadmates. Not to prevent the deaths of millions, not to prevent the genocide of entire species or the loss of planets or fleets. Only giving Shepard the chance of keeping his squad alive. How does that take away hard choices?

Choosing between any squadmate and an entire species is a meaningless choice. There is no choice. There is no catharsis, there is no lesson to be learned, there is no realism either. It is not realistic to pit the fate of an entire species on the choice of whether a single person is saved or not. To do so is just monumentally bad writing.

So tell me, how is being given the chance to keep the squad intact while the galaxy as a whole is already burning not 'realistic'? Especially since the more squadmates Shepard loses, the harder the missions will inevitably become. And emember, Shepard confronting reapers on foot is entirely unrealistic. Shepard's mission is not to fight the reapers, but to defeat them.[/quote]

Here's what I want.  The ability to:

1.  Save Earth
2.  Destroy the Reapers permanently
3.  Prevent any races from being completely exterminated
4.  Keep all my crew alive

Anyone who thinks I shouldn't be given a path of choices that results in this can go die in a huge ****ing fire:devil:

[/quote]


I'll have to remember to test my fire alarm then as i desperately don't want that ending. I want to be able to roleplay as my Shep & not have to either deliberately 'meta' to to get an ending i find reasonable or get that awful ending.

Modifié par wright1978, 11 octobre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I just thought of another one:

Having Jacob create the biotic barrier.

Seriously, he actually has it as a power, and as a soldier he has a lot of stamina.  Jack is strong, but she's not exactly dependable, and Samara's powers are more offensive in nature.  And if you've got Morinth, well, I wouldn't trust her, either.

Erhhh........

I mean no disrespect. But that justification aint logical. Jacob is just a standard human biotic, pretty unnoteworthy. And Samara's powers being offensive in nature? I say her powers can be whatever she want them to be. As a weapon or replacement for stairs.

Sorry but Jacob as a logical candidate for the biotic specialist is just ... dumb .... Samara is the by far the most safe and logical choice. Being powerful and disciplined.

"EDIT"

As for the squadleader. Picking Zaeed also seems downright illogical considering you got a certain Turian who like Zaeed presumeably knows most military tactics, but unlike him is also well respected and did not need a gun pointed to his head to learn the value of teamplay.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 11 octobre 2011 - 08:05 .

[Yezdigerd]

Realism would be a fat nerd blubbering in terror at the approach of the reapers.

Scripted deaths doesn't create drama, just I like that one less, goodbye Kaidan.
It would have been cool though if all encounters on the suicide missions had death checks like holding the line, but much harder. the change of deaths increasing with the time you took to complete it, or something. So people had to replay it a great many times to get a perfect ending.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, Zaeed's loyalty mission is a pretty strong indicator to why he's NOT a teamplayer.

Why Jacob gets to be the team leader is beyond me, though. It's like his first assignment.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Sorry but Jacob as a logical candidate for the biotic specialist is just ... dumb .... Samara is the by far the most safe and logical choice. Being powerful and disciplined.

Well, let's say you've got Morinth with you, who's just as strong, but not exactly a team player.  Jack's sort of in the same boat.  If you sent Miranda to lead the fire team (or she's not loyal because you sided with Jack), I'd say Jacob is the next most logical choice.  He's not a phenomenal biotic, but he's got endurance and determination, and his devotion to the mission ensures that he'll push himself as hard as he can for the sake of the team.

He already knows how to do what he has to do.  He just has to make it big enough for three more people to fit under it, and hold it up long enough to get through the chamber.  If Shepard trusts him enough, I don't see how it's a "bad" choice.

Ah, off-topicness!

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Sorry but Jacob as a logical candidate for the biotic specialist is just ... dumb .... Samara is the by far the most safe and logical choice. Being powerful and disciplined.

Well, let's say you've got Morinth with you, who's just as strong, but not exactly a team player.  Jack's sort of in the same boat.  If you sent Miranda to lead the fire team (or she's not loyal because you sided with Jack), I'd say Jacob is the next most logical choice.  He's not a phenomenal biotic, but he's got endurance and determination, and his devotion to the mission ensures that he'll push himself as hard as he can for the sake of the team.

He already knows how to do what he has to do.  He just has to make it big enough for three more people to fit under it, and hold it up long enough to get through the chamber.  If Shepard trusts him enough, I don't see how it's a "bad" choice.

Ah, off-topicness!

If you killed Samara in favor of Morinth then deciding not to use her when the time comes for a powerful biotic then your Shepard is even more of a bloody ****. Giving that the reason you took Morinth was because you felt she would be more useful than Samara, and the reason you took Samara was because you need a powerful biotic.

Sorry, still a bad justification.

[Yezdigerd]

It's hardly illogical to assume the guy who has the barrier power is good at "barriers".
It's certainly more logical then to assume Jacob is a great fire team leader.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yezdigerd wrote...

It's hardly illogical to assume the guy who has the barrier power is good at "barriers".
It's certainly more logical then to assume Jacob is a great fire team leader.

Given that he is just a basic human biotic. Then yes, pretty illogical.

[Dean_the_Young]

The gameplay/story segregation really does shine there, doesn't it Cheeze?

The one character in the game capable of using a sustained biotic barrier in combat... isn't good enough to be a biotic barrier specialist.

A character's whose class name was 'Turian Infiltraitor'... isn't a good enough infiltration specialist.

And let's not get into the 'Zaeed failed as a leader but Garrus was good' bit.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 11 octobre 2011 - 08:21 .

[sorentoft]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I'm just glad there are a few "well, they're not great decisions but I can justify them" decisions in the Suicide Mission for folks like me who enjoy meta-ing a bit there and only there so as to walk out of that place with a few scars.

Zaeed leading the second fire team, for example. Sure, if you really think about it the fact that he seems to be the sole survivor of a lot of his stories should tell ya something. But it isn't too hard to ignore that if you want a casualty.

I just thought of another one:

Having Jacob create the biotic barrier.

Seriously, he actually has it as a power, and as a soldier he has a lot of stamina.  Jack is strong, but she's not exactly dependable, and Samara's powers are more offensive in nature.  And if you've got Morinth, well, I wouldn't trust her, either.

I would pick Samara for that any day of the week to be honest. She is an Asari Justicar and has very powerful biotic abilities. Given her dedication to the code and age to practice and hone her skills she is the obvious choice. In my humble opinion anyway. I just do not think any of the human biotics compare, even if I want to say: "HUMANS F- YEAH!" :innocent:

Anyway: That is exactly why I like the Suicide Mission, your set-up matters. It is fatal if you do not pick the right people for the right job. I honestly had Tali die at my first playthrough because I picked Miranda for just that barrier. I mean she always boasted that she was a biotic. Poor Tali.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

If you killed Samara in favor of Morinth then deciding not to use her when the time comes for a powerful biotic then your Shepard is even more of a bloody ****. Giving that the reason you took Morinth was because you felt she would be more useful than Samara, and the reason you took Samara was because you need a powerful biotic.

Sorry, still a bad justification.

Trusting Morinth to kill stuff is one thing.  Trusting her to protect others, not so much.  And maybe I didn't think Morinth would be "more useful;" maybe I sympathized with her, thought she deserved to live, and thought her mother was more of a monster.  Additionally, I could have romanced Jacob, and could possibly trust him more than any other single squadmate.

If you get into a mindset other than your own when you're roleplaying, anything can happen.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The gameplay/story segregation really does shine there, doesn't it Cheeze?

The one character in the game capable of using a sustained biotic barrier in combat... isn't good enough to be a biotic barrier specialist.

A character's whose class name was 'Turian Infiltraitor'... isn't a good enough infiltration specialist.

And let's not get into the 'Zaeed failed as a leader but Garrus was good' bit.

You say "gameplay/story segregation;" I say "roleplaying opportunities."

Seriously, though, as dumb as it is, if all even partially justifiable options worked, the SM would be even easier than it is already.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The gameplay/story segregation really does shine there, doesn't it Cheeze?

The one character in the game capable of using a sustained biotic barrier in combat... isn't good enough to be a biotic barrier specialist.

A character's whose class name was 'Turian Infiltraitor'... isn't a good enough infiltration specialist.

And let's not get into the 'Zaeed failed as a leader but Garrus was good' bit.

Garrus' class name is Turian Agent. And there is no "infiltration specialist," just a tech specialist. Finally, Garrus was quite a good leader until one person betrayed him, in a situation where he really could have been ruined with just one bad person (and, well, was). Zaeed had no real support in the Blue Suns at all and was kicked out and nearly killed with no real opposition, and his stories tell of being betrayed nigh-constantly by his teammates on jobs. Finally, the Shadow Broker dossier says nearly outright that Zaeed was a fairly terrible leader.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Trusting Morinth to kill stuff is one thing.  Trusting her to protect others, not so much.  And maybe I didn't think Morinth would be "more useful;" maybe I sympathized with her, thought she deserved to live, and thought her mother was more of a monster.  Additionally, I could have romanced Jacob, and could possibly trust him more than any other single squadmate.

If you get into a mindset other than your own when you're roleplaying, anything can happen.

Morinth only goal is self persevation really. So not letting the bubble go up because she will get eaten by a horde of flesh eating robot insects in a pretty good motivator.

If you did not choose her because of her powers, you would still be aware that she was as strong as Samara.

[sorentoft]

AwesomeName wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Sorry but Jacob as a logical candidate for the biotic specialist is just ... dumb .... Samara is the by far the most safe and logical choice. Being powerful and disciplined.

Well, let's say you've got Morinth with you, who's just as strong, but not exactly a team player.  Jack's sort of in the same boat.  If you sent Miranda to lead the fire team (or she's not loyal because you sided with Jack), I'd say Jacob is the next most logical choice.  He's not a phenomenal biotic, but he's got endurance and determination, and his devotion to the mission ensures that he'll push himself as hard as he can for the sake of the team.

He already knows how to do what he has to do.  He just has to make it big enough for three more people to fit under it, and hold it up long enough to get through the chamber.  If Shepard trusts him enough, I don't see how it's a "bad" choice.

Ah, off-topicness!

If you killed Samara in favor of Morinth then deciding not to use her when the time comes for a powerful biotic then your Shepard is even more of a bloody ****. Giving that the reason you took Morinth was because you felt she would be more useful than Samara, and the reason you took Samara was because you need a powerful biotic.

Sorry, still a bad justification.

In any case, wouldn't it be in Morinth's best interest to keep everyone in the bubble safe? 

Morinth, Jack, Grunt, Jacob, Thane, Mordin and Zaeed are all characters I would classify as cannon-fodder in SM.

[AdmiralCheez]

AwesomeName wrote...

In any case, wouldn't it be in Morinth's best interest to keep everyone in the bubble safe?

It would, and she's smart, but putting the lives of yourself and two other people in the hands of a serial killer is a tough hurdle to jump.

Not the most phenomenal justification ever, but it works enough to excuse the choice in-character.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Morinth only goal is self persevation really. So not letting the bubble go up because she will get eaten by a horde of flesh eating robot insects in a pretty good motivator.

If you did not choose her because of her powers, you would still be aware that she was as strong as Samara.

Like I said, putting the lives of your team in the hands of a serial killer is a difficult hurdle to jump.  Shepard could be all "eeehhhh going with my gut on this one."

[Yezdigerd]

Lizardviking wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

It's hardly illogical to assume the guy who has the barrier power is good at "barriers".
It's certainly more logical then to assume Jacob is a great fire team leader.

Given that he is just a basic human biotic. Then yes, pretty illogical.

It's clear in the game that raw power doesn't make you better at all biotics, Samara and Jack doesn't use singularity for example. Biotics specialize. Jacob is specialised in barriers.
Really if Jacob could do the barrier you would find it logical. For the same reason you dont find it "illogical" that he is a great fireteam leader.

[Chewin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Morinth only goal is self persevation really. So not letting the bubble go up because she will get eaten by a horde of flesh eating robot insects in a pretty good motivator.

If you did not choose her because of her powers, you would still be aware that she was as strong as Samara.

Like I said, putting the lives of your team in the hands of a serial killer is a difficult hurdle to jump.  Shepard could be all "eeehhhh going with my gut on this one."

True, but maybe Shepard knows that if Morinth tries to pull anything drastic, she will end up dead as everyone else. And besides, she does wanna have "hot death sex" with Shepard after the SM (if you pursued a romance with her, that is).

[SnowHeart1]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Like I said, putting the lives of your team in the hands of a serial killer is a difficult hurdle to jump.  Shepard could be all "eeehhhh going with my gut on this one."

A variation on that:  He could just find Morinth's sociopathy very compelling. Sociopaths can be very charismatic, as we saw with Morinth in the club and her apartment, and if you came to her quarters after the SM. Maybe people played their Shep as fascinated with someone who is potentially as powerful and dangerous as he is, and he likes the risk. Doesn't have to be a strictly calculated or logical decision.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

It's hardly illogical to assume the guy who has the barrier power is good at "barriers".
It's certainly more logical then to assume Jacob is a great fire team leader.

Given that he is just a basic human biotic. Then yes, pretty illogical.

It's clear in the game that raw power doesn't make you better at all biotics, Samara and Jack doesn't use singularity for example. Biotics specialize. Jacob is specialised in barriers.
Really if Jacob could do the barrier you would find it logical. For the same reason you dont find it "illogical" that he is a great fireteam leader.

Samara and Jack are both powerful biotics. Them not having the ability to create singularity is just gameplay/story segreagation.

And please, stop assuming things. I do in fact find it illogical that Jacob is a succsesful squad leader. Same with if he was an able biotic specialist.

[sorentoft]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Like I said, putting the lives of your team in the hands of a serial killer is a difficult hurdle to jump.  Shepard could be all "eeehhhh going with my gut on this one."

A variation on that:  He could just find Morinth's sociopathy very compelling. Sociopaths can be very charismatic, as we saw with Morinth in the club and her apartment, and if you came to her quarters after the SM. Maybe people played their Shep as fascinated with someone who is potentially as powerful and dangerous as he is, and he likes the risk. Doesn't have to be a strictly calculated or logical decision.

So in the end it could all boil down to "Well, I would love to shag that Asari chick and hope it does not fry my brains out."



Well I suppose that makes sense.