4309 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

@Lotion: Shepard.

S-H-E-P-A-R-D.

Only one P.

You may be roleplaying too hard, also.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Topic, what topic?

This thread is now about ponies.

[AdmiralCheez]

That was the best episode of Dexter's Laboratory ever.

[RocketManSR2]

If squad deaths are forced, I will be angry, not sad. I will most certainly not play through ME3 a second time and may just eject the disc on the spot. That opinion will not change. SMH @ those of you wanting Shepard to be covered in the gore of his squad at the end of ME3.

[RocketManSR2]

jreezy wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

If squad deaths are forced, I will be angry, not sad. I will most certainly not play through ME3 a second time and may just eject the disc on the spot. That opinion will not change. SMH @ those of you wanting Shepard to be covered in the gore of his squad at the end of ME3.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind seeing that.

I'm glad you aren't on the dev team, then.

[sorentoft]

jreezy wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

If squad deaths are forced, I will be angry, not sad. I will most certainly not play through ME3 a second time and may just eject the disc on the spot. That opinion will not change. SMH @ those of you wanting Shepard to be covered in the gore of his squad at the end of ME3.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind seeing that.

"Now we did say that which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction and make paste out of people, but taking a shower in the guts of your friends? That is just sick, Shepard. You sick bastard."

[AdmiralCheez]

Rocket, people have explained why they feel loss is an essential element to a good story. Do not strawman or belittle them.

[RocketManSR2]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can enjoy something so much, yet be so divided.

@Eternal: It may have been extreme, but that is how I feel on the subject. ME3 will be a complete fail in their eyes if everyone makes it through. Even if that ending is super hard to get that's still not good enough.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 14 octobre 2011 - 06:47 .

[Robuthad]

Maybe instead of just Shep being covered in the squads blood, the entire squad is living and instead of blood it Reaper Husk intestines??

[Paula Deen]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Okay, here comes my weird and creepy sleep-deprived wall of text of the week.

I was doing a little reflecting earlier about how I'm paragon like 75% of the time and no one ever dies in the Suicide Mission.  I asked myself, "Why the hell do I keep doing this?  It's unrealistic and stupid to save the galaxy by being a nice person, and coming out of a mission like that unscathed borders on ridiculous."

And then I realized, hey, it's because it's unrealistic that I do it in the first place.

Spoiler alert: Real life sucks.  Every day, we have to face how powerless we are, how often we screw up, how bad things will keep happening to good people no matter how hard we try to stop it.  Sure, we can contribute our hearts and souls to good causes, work until our backs break to make things better, and offer all the help and comfort to the ones we love, but ultimately, the happy endings don't last.  The bad guys stay in power, the good guys get shoved to the wayside, and we retreat into our religions and philosophies to try to make sense of it all and make it hurt less.  Pessimistic, I know.  I do try hard (and should try harder), but really, I can't get over how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things.

I would hate to have your ridiculously pessimistic outlook on life.

Though I do agree on the point that some squadmate deaths should be unavoidable, like Virmire. I kind of dislike the golden ending of ME2--it just feels like there's a "right way" to play the game, and the emotional impact is just gone when you know for sure that everyone will be just fine.

[Computer_God91]

Tyrium wrote...

I, on the other hand, think the "best" ending is Loghain dead, Anora on the throne, and my Cousland and Alistair off with the Wardens (that's right, I play a non queen Cousland). I like that it is possible to have that happy ending.

I've tried to get Logain sacrificed, Alistair joint ruling with Anora and my Warden having a happy ending with Leliana but the problem is Alistiar always freaked out. I couldn't get it to work even though I knew it was possible. However, one reason why I wouldn't like that ending is that Loghain would be redeemed and painted a hero when I felt he didn't deserve redemption for his deeds. Which is why killing him to make him pay for what he did to Ducan, Cailan, and everyone on that battlefield is so satisfying. I sorta ignore DA2's existance because it makes the Warden always run off somewhere mysterious and that ruins my little predicted outcomes after the credits.

I don't like Loghain bitting it for the Warden and Alistair to survive, but I'm not saying that makes your ending any less better then mine. We all like our endings and think them the best.

Tyrium wrote...
Choices are good though, different ways to play it make it appeal to a much wider audience. After all, what happens in one person's game is totally different to another person's game. Each Shepard (or warden, or Hawke) is an entirely new universe. That's what I love about these games.

My fear is that ME3 won't have multiple endings like Dragon Age: Origins did that won't amount to "Press the choice to get this ending." DA:O's endings where a result of all your choices prior and some at the end. I don't know why but I just have this feeling ME3 won't measure up to that. Even though this game promises all the "Choices matter" stuff. Although I guess this fear comes from it feeling like my choices don't really matter that much, like stuff will be the same, but mildly differant.

[Computer_God91]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

If squad deaths are forced, I will be angry, not sad. I will most certainly not play through ME3 a second time and may just eject the disc on the spot. That opinion will not change. SMH @ those of you wanting Shepard to be covered in the gore of his squad at the end of ME3.

GodWood wrote...
If you feel rage at the writers simply because a character you liked died then you should **** off back to your kids stories.

[RocketManSR2]

jreezy wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

It never ceases to amaze me how people can enjoy something so much, yet be so divided.

@Eternal: It may have been extreme, but that is how I feel on the subject. ME3 will be a complete fail in their eyes if everyone makes it through. Even if that ending is super hard to get that's still not good enough.

Luckily I am not that type of person. If I feel that I had to work really really hard to get that happily ever after ending without it being so obvious to achieve then I would definitely be satisfied.

Fair enough. I guess I'm more irritated with the hardliners. I want all types of endings to be available. An easy way to get me to accept a squad member death would be like a call for help from them on a mission saying they are pinned down and need backup (just an example). No timer or other fake device to give you a sense of urgency. It wouldn't be pre-scripted at all. Your squad member(s) would be in danger even after you fought your way through enemies and reached the place where they were pinned down at. It would be a pretty big kick in the stomach if you arrived just in time to see them killed, or if you really take too long, just their corpse. Hell, find no corpse and be attacked by a reaper version of them that mocks you because you failed to save them. I would only be sad and angry with myself and would soldier on.

- It would also fire me the hell up if that happened, too.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 14 octobre 2011 - 07:24 .

[Biotic Sage]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Rocket, people have explained why they feel loss is an essential element to a good story. Do not strawman or belittle them.

Yeah there's really no right or wrong in this discussion.  The divided opinion boils down to how one perceives Mass Effect's identity: romantic escapism / wish-fulfillment or sci-fi drama.  Since we don't know the complete narrative yet, we don't have all the information to make the judgment of which one it is.  Bioware knows how Act 3 goes, but we do not, so we use ME1 and ME2 and try to extrapolate as to what ME3 and the entire trilogy's identity is. 

To me, it makes more sense to view Mass Effect as sci-fi drama, but I can definitely see Cheez's and others' perspective.  We will all find out what Bioware's true vision of the identity of their baby is, and if it turns out to be pure romantic escapism, I admit I will be slightly disappointed because I think it would be better as sci-fi drama; however, I will readjust my schema of Mass Effect, re-evaluate the entire series appropriately, and then judge it in its proper category.  I refuse to let my expectations and personal bias dictate how much I enjoy the game.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 14 octobre 2011 - 07:14 .

[Computer_God91]

I think I figured it out. How I could come to a compromise with a "happy ending"'s existence and I not pick it and have the game my way. The only way the happy ending can happen is to do something I can't accept. That I'll refuse, not because I don't want a happy ending, but because the happy ending comes at a cost I deem to high. Like DA:O's Dark Ritual ending or Loghain redemption ending. That way other people that can accept such a cost can and I can easily reject it and be 100% satisfied with my ending.

[Biotic Sage]

Computer_God91 wrote...

I think I figured it out. How I could come to a compromise with a "happy ending"'s existence and I not pick it and have the game my way. The only way the happy ending can happen is to do something I can't accept. That I'll refuse, not because I don't want a happy ending, but because the happy ending comes at a cost I deem to high. Like DA:O's Dark Ritual ending or Loghain redemption ending. That way other people that can accept such a cost can and I can easily reject it and be 100% satisfied with my ending.

That would be fine, but it has to be a real, clear cost.  Not something completely vague like the Old God baby.  I mean, I don't know if that thing is good, evil, or something else.  I have no idea what I'm agreeing to, so therefore I couldn't even properly consider the option.

[jeweledleah]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

I think I figured it out. How I could come to a compromise with a "happy ending"'s existence and I not pick it and have the game my way. The only way the happy ending can happen is to do something I can't accept. That I'll refuse, not because I don't want a happy ending, but because the happy ending comes at a cost I deem to high. Like DA:O's Dark Ritual ending or Loghain redemption ending. That way other people that can accept such a cost can and I can easily reject it and be 100% satisfied with my ending.

That would be fine, but it has to be a real, clear cost.  Not something completely vague like the Old God baby.  I mean, I don't know if that thing is good, evil, or something else.  I have no idea what I'm agreeing to, so therefore I couldn't even properly consider the option.

reminds me of something... ah yes.  Rachni.  and Shiala.  and Balak.  and Vido.  its true, you don't relaly know what you are agreeing to... but you can see the clear potential danger.  so you gotta decide.  is it worth the possible price?  are you willing to risk it? or is it better to be safe then sorry?

[chickenchasa]

[Warning, this post is a giant wall of text.]

I recall when I first heard about Mass Effect.

Choices? That affected what happened later in the story? Not of games out there that do that on such a scale? And it was a TRILOGY? I Never picked up Mass Effect One to my dismay; Yes I'm one of those people who jumped in at the middle. Pop in the game, and I start playing...and playing...and playing. But I made one promise to myself: I wouldn't start another play through until I finished the Trilogy...which, I understand is ironic because, again: haven't played the first. Ignore that comment and keep reading, please.

Why? Because I don't want to have to 'pick' which ending I liked the best from the second one, and continue on with that to the third, because I KNOW that I too would want to live out my idealistic concepts of honor and glory over impossible odds as the Savior of Humanity and the Galaxy as a whole. I mean- who wouldn't?

In my first and (so far) only play through of Mass Effect Two, I was Paragon about 70% of the time, trying to be kindhearted, understanding, and negotiable, but forceful when needed for the general safety of others. I found myself liking Jacob for his similar mentality (In Before rants of Jacob lacking a personality), I liked how he was portrayed. He was a soldier, clean and simple...kept his personal thoughts to himself for the most part, and after his loyalty mission we became war buddies and would go 'splash some drinks on the citadel' when the 'suicide mission' was done...

Note the past tense. Sadly in my only playthrough, my good friend Jacob died when Miranda's barrier fell, and he was whisked away by the collector swarms, while Miranda, Grunt and I kept going...To those interested We destroyed the Collector Base, Everyone but Jacob made it out alive, and I accidentally found myself in a relationship with Jack after I wanted her to lighten up...but I like how that worked, but that's a topic within itself.

I was broken up about this as much as I was about Zaeed's Loyalty Mission ( I won't go into that however for the sake of time, in summary: Renegade Option.). Jacob was my brother-in-arms, I'm sure most of you had one of those people on your team who you became attached to; someone who reminds you of a friend, perhaps? Maybe someone you see a part of yourself in? It was this experience of losing my friend 'Jacob' that made Mass Effect my favorite series, not because of Gameplay the Universe, or the Sultry Blue Babes (Of note: That is a joke.)... It was 'My' story. 'My' Battle. The reason I will be picking up Mass Effect Three is NOT because I like the series and want to see what happens.

I'm continuing this fight to make sure my friend didn't die in vain. And to be honest? After reading about everything I've missed in Mass Effect One, and all the other outcomes I could have come to and the 'ideal' ways to beat Mass Effect Two and the Suicide Mission? I wouldn't change a thing, you know why?

Because if I did another play through, Jacob would be alive, we'd splash some drinks, and he wouldn't have died screaming and flailing...If I did another playthrough, I will have lost the reason why Mass Effect has become and will stay my favorite game.

This is an excellent discussion Cheez, I salute you.

..Also to add whatever Paragon/Renegade debate is about up in this thread, all you have to ask yourself in the end is "Do the ends justify the means?". For a Paragon player they will avoid (or begrudgingly will cross) crossing their moral bridge to perform a task, whereas a Renegade player would willingly do so, either because they prefer things the gritty way or because they see the rationality of the choice. The concept of the 'Normal' and 'Heretic' Geth illustrate this to a 'T'.

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:11 .

[Biotic Sage]

jeweledleah wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

I think I figured it out. How I could come to a compromise with a "happy ending"'s existence and I not pick it and have the game my way. The only way the happy ending can happen is to do something I can't accept. That I'll refuse, not because I don't want a happy ending, but because the happy ending comes at a cost I deem to high. Like DA:O's Dark Ritual ending or Loghain redemption ending. That way other people that can accept such a cost can and I can easily reject it and be 100% satisfied with my ending.

That would be fine, but it has to be a real, clear cost.  Not something completely vague like the Old God baby.  I mean, I don't know if that thing is good, evil, or something else.  I have no idea what I'm agreeing to, so therefore I couldn't even properly consider the option.

reminds me of something... ah yes.  Rachni.  and Shiala.  and Balak.  and Vido.  its true, you don't relaly know what you are agreeing to... but you can see the clear potential danger.  so you gotta decide.  is it worth the possible price?  are you willing to risk it? or is it better to be safe then sorry?

Those aren't at all the same to me.  You have all of the information up to the point where you decide whether or not to risk it with the Rachni and all of those examples.  In DA:O, you don't have all of the information regarding the Old God decision.  You don't even know if Old Gods are real, or what the actual history of corruption and all of that is.  You can't make an informed decision.  With the Rachni, I know that they waged war on the Galaxy, and I also know the Rachni Queen's side of the story; after taking all of the information into account I go from there.  It's an informed risk, not a blind one like in DA:O.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:25 .

[AdmiralCheez]

@chickenchasa: You make me jealous of your self-control.

ALL THE SPOILERS, ALL THE TIME.

If I had gone in blind and had the balls to not reload when I goofed...  Wow.  Damn.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .