4309 réponses à ce sujet

[onelifecrisis]

Mclouvins wrote...

Not to troll, but this thread has become pointless after 80ish pages. It's an immovable force meets an unstoppable object scenario that isn't going anywhere.

Yeah but if it stays here then Zeel will keep coming in and screaming for it to get shut down. It's worth keeping it open just for that. I love that guy.

[Athayniel]

onelifecrisis wrote...

You're missing my point, which I admit may be my fault for not being able to explain it well but I tried. Your point is not a counter to my point, and restating it won't change that.

So you are saying that the millions of people who have already died aren't a sacrifice. I don't agree with you that's all.

[onelifecrisis]

Athayniel wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

You're missing my point, which I admit may be my fault for not being able to explain it well but I tried. Your point is not a counter to my point, and restating it won't change that.

So you are saying that the millions of people who have already died aren't a sacrifice. I don't agree with you that's all.

They're not a sacrifice made by Shepard.

[chickenchasa]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

This whole "necessary sacrifce" thing is all Jesus's fault. Stupid cultural subconscious.

Hurr hurr.

ANYWAYS! I have a question in regards to the 'squadmates must die' part.

Just because they are your friends (and maybe some not so much...personally I didn't like Garrus or Miranda, for example.), are their lives MORE important than all those colonists? Do you feel nothing for billions of innocents being slaughtered? At the end of arrival, just because all those Batarians died for a 'good cause' does that mean it's okay that they died? Even if they are mortal enemies with the humans?

I'm sure Commander Shepard, whoever he/she is, has some thoughts on all the people dying. Did not a Paragon Shepard preach 'Not One More' to his men before going off to defeat the Human-Reaper Larva while they held the line? Not all of you would agree, but that's a promise I'd like the chance to live up to, even if I wind up dying to make sure no one else does. Robbing that chance from other gamers (and I've got a good feeling that most people want to be able to save everyone), by making it mandatory to kill off parts of your squad is a poor move

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:00 .

[AdmiralCheez]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Oh come on I made a good point. Jeff said so.

And I didn't? :3

[Athayniel]

onelifecrisis wrote...

They're not a sacrifice made by Shepard.

Because Shepard's is the only sacrifice that matter? I really don't agree with that.

[AdmiralCheez]

chickenchasa wrote...

ANYWAYS! I have a question in regards to the 'squadmates must die' part? Just because they are your friends (and maybe some not so much...personally I didn't like Garrus or Miranda, for example.), are their lives MORE important than all those colonists?

Nope.

Do you feel nothing for billions of innocents being slaughtered?

I feel a whole helluva lot for them, more so than the "faceless goons don't count" people, anyway.

At the end of arrival, just because all those Batarians died for a 'good cause' does that mean it's okay that they died? Even if they are mortal enemies with the humans?

Hell no!  That was a horrible tragedy and I wish there had been a better way.

I'm sure Commander Shepard, whoever he/she is, has some thoughts on all the people dying. Did not a Paragon Shepard preach 'Not One More' to his men before going off to defeat the Human-Reaper Larva while they held the line? Not all of you would agree, but that's a promise I'd like the chance to live up to, even if I wind up dying to make sure no one else does.

Agreed.  Every life saved counts.  And I'd off Shepard in the last act if it meant someone else got to live.  I don't even have to like that person.

[onelifecrisis]

Nyoka wrote...

I thought we had agreed to something 50 pages ago.

BSN doesn't have agreements. It has ceasefires.

[onelifecrisis]

Athayniel wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

They're not a sacrifice made by Shepard.

Because Shepard's is the only sacrifice that matter? I really don't agree with that.

Specifically wrt Shepard's story of being challenged, rising to that challenge and making the necessary sacrifices and succeeding as a result, no, those other sacrifices (the one's not made by him) don't matter.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .

[wright1978]

Athayniel wrote...

So you are saying that the millions of people who have already died aren't a sacrifice. I don't agree with you that's all.

Faceless, nameless people don't pull the heart strings and in a story don't provide dramatic effect. When there's tragedy in the world the news they put a face to it and make it personal. If we'd got to spend time on freedom's progress getting to know the colonists before they got gobbled up by collectors it might have had some impact.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Athayniel wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

You're crazy!  Virmire was an awesome piece of story telling.  It showed the sacrifices Shepard was willing to make to stop Saren.  Leaving that planet without Wrex and Ash was like a punch in the soul to me.  I thought, okay, this is the lowest point in the hero's journey.  Thank god the Council has finally taken notice.  It's going to feel pretty amazing leading their fleet to Ilos.

It really wasn't. And in any event is the exact sort of thing we want to avoid in ME3.

Speak for yourself. I wnt more vimire-like decisions (altough executed a bit better...cloe any logic holes in it)

I DETEST losing squad members or units or ships. Yet it feels so right.

[wright1978]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I thought we had agreed to something 50 pages ago.

BSN doesn't have agreements. It has ceasefires.

It is possible to reach agreements with individuals. Problem here is that someone from either extreme of the spectrum breaks the armistice and people migrate to their poles.

[chickenchasa]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Agreed.  Every life saved counts.  And I'd off Shepard in the last
act if it meant someone else got to live.  I don't even have to like
that person.

That's was my point exactly Cheez. I mean, how could the systematic destruction of a select group of people NOT be a sacrifice and not felt by yourself or anyone else in this thread? Just because they aren't a friend doesn't mean it's not emotional to watch others die.

And for the record, those comments weren't directed at just you, heck if anything we're on the same mind link here...I was just was quoting the jesus comment because it made me snicker like a horse.

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:13 .

[onelifecrisis]

wright1978 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I thought we had agreed to something 50 pages ago.

BSN doesn't have agreements. It has ceasefires.

It is possible to reach agreements with individuals. Problem here is that someone from either extreme of the spectrum breaks the armistice and people migrate to their poles.

I was being funny. Hilarious, in fact.

[Athayniel]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Specifically wrt Shepard's story of being challenged, rising to that challenge and making the necessary sacrifices and succeeding as a result, no, they don't matter.

Again with the 'necessary sacrifices' argument. I think millions dead  with billions more in the offing is sacrifice enough. I think planets razed to the bedrock and fleets of warships shredded into so much scrap metal is sacrifice enough.

I definitely don't agree with you.

[AdmiralCheez]

chickenchasa wrote...

That's was my point exactly Cheez. I mean, how could the systematic destruction of a select group of people NOT be a sacrifice and not felt by yourself or anyone else in this thread?

I dunno.  Some people don't care about stuff unless it's personal.  Which is why society sucks.

And for the record, those comments weren't directed at just you, heck if anything we're on the same mind link here...I was just was quoting the jesus comment because it made me snicker like a horse.

I know.  Answered anyway.  Too much coffee today and I'm wigging out.

[AdmiralCheez]

wright1978 wrote...

It is possible to reach agreements with individuals. Problem here is that someone from either extreme of the spectrum breaks the armistice and people migrate to their poles.

I knooow, right?

Lotion, this is your fault.  We had a good thing going until you were like NO COMPROMISES.

[wright1978]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

This whole "necessary sacrifce" thing is all Jesus's fault. Stupid cultural subconscious.

Think it is something much more basic to human nature, the whole 'better half of our nature'. Quoting from the bible of Whedon in the Book of 'Angel' "The good fight, yeah? You never know until you've been tested. I get that now."

[Wulfram]

Athayniel wrote...

Again with the 'necessary sacrifices' argument. I think millions dead  with billions more in the offing is sacrifice enough. I think planets razed to the bedrock and fleets of warships shredded into so much scrap metal is sacrifice enough.

I definitely don't agree with you.

So in the context of all that destruction, why do the crew of the Normandy get a free pass?

[Lotion Soronarr]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Biotic Sage - this was few pages back, but I have to adress this. you are dismissing my offers of HOW the meaningful choice of saving the squadmate without it being IWIN button can be done and then keep calling me illogical and putting words in my mouth by claiming that what I want is a SM scenario where saving squadmate = doing everything.

but that's NOT what I'm saying. I keep bringing up examples from bioware games, examples that include missions from both ME1 and ME2, where bioware did exactly that - gave us a choice that is not a clearcut ultimate solution, but where depending on your personal priorities, you could in fact save someone at the cost ofcreating a more dangerous situation for the future. those choices do NOT contradict your desire for ultimate ending that involves squadmate deaths and my ultimate ending that doesn't. but you are completely dismissing it. one would think that with your writing degree and all - you'd me more open, more flexibility to the VARIEtY of the plot devises instead of stubbornly sticking to "squadmates must die or its not serious enough"

If you reffering to that example with a running reaper and squadmates on a crippled ship, then it's a pathetic example.

After the full might of the reaper is thwarted, a reper or two escaping is really not a big deal. Why? Because you defeted them at full power. You know have all of their tech to study. They lost any and all advantage they ever had.
The choice is a no-brainer.

A direct happy consequnce (squad saved) agaisnt a possible, future, negative one that's miniscule.

[AdmiralCheez]

wright1978 wrote...

Think it is something much more basic to human nature, the whole 'better half of our nature'. Quoting from the bible of Whedon in the Book of 'Angel' "The good fight, yeah? You never know until you've been tested. I get that now."

I'd just rather it be me/Shepard than someone else.

And Angel's a ******.  Also, I hate vampires.

[Athayniel]

Wulfram wrote...

So in the context of all that destruction, why do the crew of the Normandy get a free pass?

I'm not asking for a free pass, I never have. I'm just asking for them not to get a death sentence with no chance of appeal.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I dunno.  Some people don't care about stuff unless it's personal.  Which is why society sucks.

No offence Cheez but I am getting kinda tired of being convicted as some kind of loathsome selfish ****** for saying I need more than just nameless characters to be truly moved.

Am I moved when I see real tragedies? Yes, because it is real people out there. But in a story? Then you need more than just random bystander #33 for me to be truly moved.

Just need to get that off my chest.