4309 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Think it is something much more basic to human nature, the whole 'better half of our nature'. Quoting from the bible of Whedon in the Book of 'Angel' "The good fight, yeah? You never know until you've been tested. I get that now."

I'd just rather it be me/Shepard than someone else.

And Angel's a ******.  Also, I hate vampires.

I'll half agree with you. He defintely is a ****** but a well written one. Like whedon vampires though.

Don't have a problem with the choice of it being Shep being there too.

Modifié par wright1978, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:22 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Wulfram wrote...

So in the context of all that destruction, why do the crew of the Normandy get a free pass?

Because when the galaxy is crumbling around you, sometimes having something to hold onto is what makes victory possible.  Sometimes having something to protect, something personal to fight for, is the proper motivation.  Sometimes it's your friends that give you the strength you need to pull through.

Everyone's always needed Shepard.  I want to see Shepard need other people.

[Computer_God91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Speak for yourself. I wnt more vimire-like decisions (altough executed a bit better...cloe any logic holes in it)

I DETEST losing squad members or units or ships. Yet it feels so right.

THIS

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Because when the galaxy is crumbling around you, sometimes having something to hold onto is what makes victory possible. 

Then it is taken away, or it is marred by the enemy in some way. Yet you still need to fight your way to victory. Now it isn't just survival, it is also vengeance.

Adversity makes the protagonist stronger in the end. If we let you run this game there'd be no danger, no hard decisions, no sacrifices, no adversity. It'd be boring. 

Oh, and this as well. x10

Modifié par Computer_God91, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:26 .

[Athayniel]

Lizardviking wrote...

Am I moved when I see real tragedies? Yes, because it is real people out there. But in a story? Then you need more than just random bystander #33 for me to be truly moved.

Just need to get that off my chest.

Except it's not random bystander #33. It's random bystanders #33-#7000033 with more on the way.

Shepard memorised the names of the eight alliance cruisers that were destroyed at the Battle of the Citadel and got rightously pissed with al-Jilani for minimising their sacrifice. We can already expect dozens more names in need of memorisation.

So yeah, why isn't that enough to move you in a story? What if one of those ships is captained by Hannah Shepard? Will all the spacer Shep's amongst us have sacrificed enough then?

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

No offence Cheez but I am getting kinda tired of being convicted as some kind of loathsome selfish ****** for saying I need more than just nameless characters to be truly moved.

It was a comment on how apathy kills society in general, not a personal attack.  You're not a ******.

Am I moved when I see real tragedies? Yes, because it is real people out there. But in a story? Then you need more than just random bystander #33 for me to be truly moved.

Not me.  I just have to see the pain and the struggle.  I want to protect and avenge random bystander #33 just as much as Kaishley Willenko.  Suffering doesn't need a name or a backstory.  Just a face.  But then again, not everyone is a goddamn bleeding heart like me.

Just need to get that off my chest.

No problem.

[onelifecrisis]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Everyone's always needed Shepard.  I want to see Shepard need other people.

I'm pretty sure that's a whole other debate.

[nitefyre410]

y'all better be careful because Authors/writers love to pull out the high Octane Nightmare Fuel and few other Tropes when people start calling for character death when the authors themselves are not ready or willing do this. In other words you may just get what you ask for in nice graphic HD detail.

Case and Point .. Evangelion... people where in up roar about what happened in episode 26... Sooo End Of Evangelion came out thus showing us what REALLY happened and the aftermath.

viewers around the world when: BRRRRR

and the sales Brain Bleach went up.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:42 .

[chickenchasa]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Because when the galaxy is crumbling around you, sometimes having something to hold onto is what makes victory possible. 

Then it is taken away, or it is marred by the enemy in some way. Yet you still need to fight your way to victory. Now it isn't just survival, it is also vengeance.

Adversity makes the protagonist stronger in the end. If we let you run this game there'd be no danger, no hard decisions, no sacrifices, no adversity. It'd be boring.

(I say your only to refer to people mandating deaths and no one in particular. just a heads up.)

The problem with mandating the deaths is that you want us to share YOUR story and your reasons for continuing on, whereas we have our own story and causes. I agree that I'd be sad if another of my squadmate died during the course of Mass Effect 3 and YES I'd be more motivated to keep going, but do I want to have no say in the matter? 

Hell no.

Not all of us want that kind of story, some of us want to be the "Big Goddamn Heroes" we watched on T.V, riding into the sunset with ALL of our buddies. Mandating deaths would just ruin that for a large chunk of the playerbase, wherein you could just chalk it up to your past choices and let those decide who dies or not. Sure you could doctor it after you learn what to do and what not to do, but your first play through will always be the best if you just LET it happen. That's how I see it anyways, the first play through being the only one that matters.

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Athayniel wrote...
Wait. So... Shepard finds a way to defeat the reapers, an entire race of colossal robots who have locked the entire galaxy in a cycle of genocide for at least 37 million years, and in the current cycle have already nearly destroyed the space faring races of the galaxy twice with the Rachni Wars and Sovereign's attack on the Citadel and who have killed millions of people already just on Earth. If Shepard accomplishes this task but somehow manages to keep his squad of twenty or so elite soldiers, specialists and biotics alive, then this monumental victory has no value? This victory that has saved the entire galaxy has no value...

Not really.
The victory not only breaks my supsnesion of disbelief (because the survial odds of hte whole time in such situation are beyond astronomical), but unless ,I the player, and Shepard feel the weight and loss of war, then the whole story is poinless for me.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

nitefyre410 wrote...

y'all better be careful because Authors/writers love to pull out the high Octane Nightmare Fuel and few other Tropes when people start calling for character death when the authors themselves are not ready or willing do this. In other words you may just get what you ask for in nice graphic HD detail.

Case and Point .. Evangelion... people where in up roar about what happened in episode 26... Sooo End Of Evangelion came out thus us what REALLY happened and the aftermath.

viewers around the world when: BRRRRR

and the sales Brain Bleach went up.

Except that here the team apparently has no balls when it comes to making the hard decisions, and would rather just make Fanservice Extravanganza 3.

[chickenchasa]

It appears I hit quote instead of edit on this one...Hm.

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .

[spirosz]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

So in the context of all that destruction, why do the crew of the Normandy get a free pass?

Because when the galaxy is crumbling around you, sometimes having something to hold onto is what makes victory possible.  Sometimes having something to protect, something personal to fight for, is the proper motivation.  Sometimes it's your friends that give you the strength you need to pull through.

Everyone's always needed Shepard.  I want to see Shepard need other people.

I like that, that should be on the box cover or something, lol. It's true though, we rarely see Shepard show that side of him, but I think it's because of him/her trying to portray the "unbreakable hero", even though Shepard's just one man/woman.

Those type of scenarios could still be portrayed through our imagination, even if they aren't shown in the game.  For example, since my Shepard has the Akuze background, whenever a Thresher Maw popped up in ME1 or Grunt's LM, I always imagined that Shepard would show a lot of fear in his eyes and get flashbacks from the terrible event. Just basically adding more personality/emotion to Shepard. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Then it is taken away, or it is marred by the enemy in some way. Yet you still need to fight your way to victory. Now it isn't just survival, it is also vengeance.

But vengeance is overused and cliché.  Can't my motivation be a positive emotion (protection) instead of a negative one (revenge) for once?

Adversity makes the protagonist stronger in the end. If we let you run this game there'd be no danger, no hard decisions, no sacrifices, no adversity. It'd be boring.

But it already has that!  You know, Earth?  Reapers?  Fate of the galaxy?  Constant danger because you are being shot at?  The fact that you can't win against the little f*cks 99% of the time?

They're already invading the galaxy and wrecking your sh*t.  If you need additional motivation, well damn, son.

"The protagonist's best friend dies" is a common trope in war stories, yes.  But it's not the only way to create drama.  It's the instant ramen of drama: cheap, easy, and when it's all you eat you get sick of it fast.  Creating tragedy and tension WITHOUT killing off the squad would show off incredible writing skill.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You know what?

This whole "necessary sacrifce" thing is all Jesus's fault.  Stupid cultural subconscious.

Do not even joke about J-man. He's cool.

[onelifecrisis]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Creating tragedy and tension WITHOUT killing off the squad would show off incredible writing skill.

You think maybe you might be asking a little too much of the writers that gave us the Lazarus Project?

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Except that here the team apparently has no balls when it comes to making the hard decisions, and would rather just make Fanservice Extravanganza 3.

Ironically, if they listen to YOU, Kaiser, it'd still be fanservice.  So they're f*cked either way.

Oh, divided fanbase, u so silly.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Athayniel wrote...
Except it's not random bystander #33. It's random bystanders #33-#7000033 with more on the way.

Still needs more than that. Can't just rely on nameless characters.

Shepard memorised the names of the eight alliance cruisers that were destroyed at the Battle of the Citadel and got rightously pissed with al-Jilani for minimising their sacrifice. We can already expect dozens more names in need of memorisation.

I did not shed a single tear out of mourning for the Alliance ships getting blown up. And frankly, I doubt you did too.

So yeah, why isn't that enough to move you in a story? What if one of those ships is captained by Hannah Shepard? Will all the spacer Shep's amongst us have sacrificed enough then?

Now we are talking. Althrough Hannah is a minor character, and considering the fact that only spacer sheps will see her. There needs to be someone bit more likely to bite the dust as well.

[AdmiralCheez]

onelifecrisis wrote...

You think maybe you might be asking a little too much of the writers that gave us the Lazarus Project?

They've got Patrick Weekes.  Anything is possible.

[chickenchasa]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

"The protagonist's best friend dies" is a common trope in war stories, yes.  But it's not the only way to create drama.  It's the instant ramen of drama: cheap, easy, and when it's all you eat you get sick of it fast.  Creating tragedy and tension WITHOUT killing off the squad would show off incredible writing skill.

This.

This is what I mean in a nutshell. You can still write the story without those problems...add in problems amongst the squadmates themselves instead of all being buddy buddy. I mean yes allow squad members to die because your past choices, but to mandate it would be as equally cheap and taudry as if everyone lived happily ever after. You want your stereotypical journey and end, and we want our stereotypical journey and end. To each their own, add a way to make both possible without it being a completionist or forced stupidity run and you'll be golden.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

I did not shed a single tear out of mourning for the Alliance ships getting blown up. And frankly, I doubt you did too.

Well, I got choked up when the "sacrifice the Council" cutscene played.  And I actually felt shocked, hurt, and pissed when Al-Jilani brings up the Alliance casualties if you did it the other way.

Tears were not shed, but there was some OH F*CK all up in this.

I start crying on Tali's loyalty mission, though.  You know the part with the recording where the mom says goodbye to her kid?  Sadness forever.

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Except that here the team apparently has no balls when it comes to making the hard decisions, and would rather just make Fanservice Extravanganza 3.

Ironically, if they listen to YOU, Kaiser, it'd still be fanservice.  So they're f*cked either way.

Oh, divided fanbase, u so silly.

No, because it appears we are the minority when it comes to this issue, hence why having the game be a road fo hardships wouldn't be fanservice. Granted, it might be servicing the fans in giving them  the best product possible, instead of the one they think they want, but it's most definitely not fanservice.

[chickenchasa]

Lizardviking wrote...

Now we are talking. Althrough Hannah is a minor character, and considering the fact that only spacer sheps will see her. There needs to be someone bit more likely to bite the dust as well.

Mister Anderson...Surprised to see me?

Modifié par chickenchasa, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:46 .

[Someone With Mass]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
They've got Patrick Weekes.  Anything is possible.

Amen.

The writer of Space-Clint Eastwood and the chick who always manages to get herself into trouble will make ME3 worth the money alone.