4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The only issue I have with plot deaths is who's kneck goes on the chopping block?

Whomever you don't want to be on the block because then it will carry the most weight. If it carries a lot of weight then it wasn't just death for death's sake. It was to add something to the story.

Characters should die when it increases enjoyment and engagement with the narrative, when the narrative otherwise benefits from it, and when it benefits the character themselves.

But how does BW implement that?....All the squaddies have fans...Does BW take the most popular squaddies Garrus, Liara, Miranda, Tali and Wrex and rotate them through to try and impose this decision on everyone?

[Yvell]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

-snip-

Uh huh, sure. I hope ME3 isn't as ****** easy as ME2 was.

I hope that it's ****** easy!
...About as ****** easy as a kidney stone.  Hehe, I want the story to be the best so far.  I want to be able to tie off as many loose ends as possible.  I want this game to be a success.  But most of all, I want to be challenged at every corner.  Not just with combat, but with truly -tough- decisions.

I agree with Cheeze's view, and this perfect, happy ending should be possible!  I don't care if it's even only 1% possible, just make it possible, Bioware!

Note: A bit of a rude point to take, but most of this conversation is probably all for naught.  Bioware probably had the tough decisions cemented months ago.  But still, always really fun to talk about! :happy:

[FeralEwok]

Saphra Deden wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

Is that not for death's sake because you like them? If Garrus died because I cared about him and not because of circumstances that put him in the right place and right time to die isn't that just for death's sake. I had thought death's sake was meant to add weight

Obviously his death should feel like a natural result of the plot. Remember, at the end of the day the plot can be anything. So if you want you can say that any death is just death for death's sake because the plot never HAD to go in that direction.

I dont mean that a person's death has to be tied into the plot. Random death happens, but what I was trying to get at was that a person shouldn't be targetted simply because they are well liked.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I don't give two sh*ts about how I feel.  I have chocolate, entertainment, and medication for that.

Obviously you do care if you are binging on chocolate, escaping into games/books/whathaveyou, and taking medication.

It's only natural to derrive pleasure from the pleasure of others and the opposite as well. You sound like a very social person, very empathetic.

AmdiralCheez wrote...

Look.  You are making it sound like people who care more about others than they care about themselves are somehow more selfish.

No, no, I never said that. I just said that you were getting something out of it. The point was that you needed to do it. Thus, that you were needy. It shapes the kind of story you want.

Telling that you'd think I was saying that though. Projecting much? You don't need to feel guilty for feeling good when you do good. As you said, it is necessary for human society.



The enemy may have "killed" Shepard but it didn't stick. Thus, the death had no weight. This is a core problem with ME2. It was just a gimmick. It was death for death's sake. It was a cheap thrill and nothing more.

Off topic, but all this reminds me of a question I examined some time back...Is it possible for someone to be truly altruistic?...Too off topic, but couldn't help but mention it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Obviously you do care if you are binging on chocolate, escaping into games/books/whathaveyou, and taking medication.

What I meant was that how I feel about myself wasn't my motivation to help others, since binging on chocolate is more fun than listening to my friends wangst.  Honestly, I'd probably be a lot happier if I didn't bother.

Telling that you'd think I was saying that though. Projecting much? You don't need to feel guilty for feeling good when you do good. As you said, it is necessary for human society.

The problem is, you have a habit of jumping on people and insulting them.  So it's hard to not see an insult in your words sometimes, especially when you make such an ambiguous statement.  Sorry I misread when you were actually making an effort to not be a ******.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 15 octobre 2011 - 12:32 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Golden Owl - yes it is, but likely not for you and I.

[FeralEwok]

Saphra Deden wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

I dont mean that a person's death has to be tied into the plot. Random death happens, but what I was trying to get at was that a person shouldn't be targetted simply because they are well liked.

I really hate repeating myself. I told you that whomever dies should be chosen by the writers based on how well their death will serve the narrative. If you can't read how are you posting on a forum?

If you hate repeating then just dont.

Or be an ass. Choice is yours I guess

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

But how does BW implement that?

They can lick one finger and raise it in the air for all I care.

Well that was a pointless excercise then...I would have expected maybe some concept on how it could be done if your going to advocate an idea.

[Golden Owl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Golden Owl - yes it is, but likely not for you and I.

I disagree actually, but this isn't the place to enter that discussion.

[Medhia Nox]

@Golden Owl: Very true - feel free to PM me if you ever feel the itch.

[Yvell]

Well, I will admit, Golden Owl, that people with opinions that are constantly at odds with others within a thread are highly valued. If anything, she's probably helping us state our own views in a more detailed fashion and explaining perceived flaws or perfections within our argument.

Now, I will say that I don't agree with calling Cheeze's personality into question and attempting to label her something that is negative--based upon Saphra's tone--.

Modifié par Yvell, 15 octobre 2011 - 01:10 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Golden Owl wrote...

]Off topic, but all this reminds me of a question I examined some time back...Is it possible for someone to be truly altruistic?...Too off topic, but couldn't help but mention it.

Probably not.  No person is truly "without sin," whatever the hell sin is.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Off topic, but all this reminds me of a question I examined some time back...Is it possible for someone to be truly altruistic?...Too off topic, but couldn't help but mention it.

I guess that depends on how you define altruism. Or how closely you look at it anyway.

My definition: To give freely and without question without receiving or expecting ANYTHING in return.

[Kaiser Shepard]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

But how does BW implement that?

They can lick one finger and raise it in the air for all I care.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this. Seeing as how we're on the same side and all. We're looking for solutions here, not just arguing.

What, so now Saphra has to design a gameplay system that works instead of BioWare?

[Medhia Nox]

I'm not one to start threads - and, I admit, I probably wouldn't contribute much - but I think a "How would you do this scene?" thread would be excellent.

Take a scene from the game - detail where the scene begins and ends - and then let people re-write it.

I think it would be far more interesting than just saying: I like grim dark! or I like rainbows!

=======

@Golden Owl: such is the way of the Tao. Sadly - I am not yet enlightened enough to pursue the Tao to its fullest.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 octobre 2011 - 12:39 .

[DiebytheSword]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I'm not one to start threads - and, I admit, I probably wouldn't contribute much - but I think a "How would you do this scene?" thread would be excellent.

Take a scene from the game - detail where the scene begins and ends - and then let people re-write it.

I think it would be far more interesting than just saying: I like grim dark! or I like rainbows!

=======

@Golden Owl: such is the way of the Tao. Sadly - I am not yet enlightened enough to pursue the Tao to its fullest.

Medhia, I will rise to that challenge.

[Medhia Nox]

@Diebythesword: I look forward to it.

[Golden Owl]

Yvell wrote...

Well, I will admit, Golden Owl, that people with opinions that are constantly at odds with others within a thread are highly valued. If anything, she's probably helping us state our own views in a more detailed fashion and explaining perceived flaws or perfections within our argument.

Now, I will say that I don't agree with calling Cheeze's personality into question and attempting to label her something that is negative--based upon your tone--.

I'm not having a go at Cheez...Sorry, I'm not sure if that's what your suggesting or not....Just watching the tone and discussion between Cheez and Saphra served as a very strong reminder of my question.

[onelifecrisis]

That's a big, deep can of worms you've opened there, Golden Owl.