4309 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I fail to see how an ending in which six specific people make it out alive is an ending without consequences.

So it's just the 6 ME3 squad mates you want to live?  They can kill off all the ME2 guys who aren't in the squad, Joker, Anderson, Shepard, Earth, Wrex?

[JeffZero]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

I'd like everyone to die

Bah, lies and propaganda.

[CptBomBom00]

JeffZero wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

I'd like everyone to die

Bah, lies and propaganda.

Like hell:lol:

[JeffZero]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh goodness, stop and listen. I'm making a point here.
Isn't a sci-fi fantasy game the WORST place to expect a "meaningful" ending?


Seriously guys, It'd be like going to a Highschool Football game, bringing orange juice and a warm sweater.

...no, I don't think so anyway. Unless the 'game' distinction is supposed to be the end-all? There are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy books, movies and shows with fairly meaningful endings.

Hell, there are a few games. Xenogears. FFVII. Some more. Not perfect but they resonate.

[Killjoy Cutter]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Oh, I want to feel the gravity of the situation, too.  Just with one caveat: Plot deaths of squadmates can kiss my ass.

There are tons of other ways to make the world feel like it's ending.  Killing the cool guy is just the easiest, and Hollywood's beaten me over the head with it so many times that I need a break.

^, QFT, +1001, "this", etc.


The one part of ME1 that I still just rush through as much as possible is the forced death on Vermire.  Blah. 

[Prince Zeel]

JeffZero wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh goodness, stop and listen. I'm making a point here.
Isn't a sci-fi fantasy game the WORST place to expect a "meaningful" ending?


Seriously guys, It'd be like going to a Highschool Football game, bringing orange juice and a warm sweater.

...no, I don't think so anyway. Unless the 'game' distinction is supposed to be the end-all? There are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy books, movies and shows with fairly meaningful endings.

Hell, there are a few games. Xenogears. FFVII. Some more. Not perfect but they resonate.

books and shows are differnt from games.

Games have a stupider fanbase they have to appeal to.

[JeffZero]

Prince Zeel wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh goodness, stop and listen. I'm making a point here.
Isn't a sci-fi fantasy game the WORST place to expect a "meaningful" ending?


Seriously guys, It'd be like going to a Highschool Football game, bringing orange juice and a warm sweater.

...no, I don't think so anyway. Unless the 'game' distinction is supposed to be the end-all? There are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy books, movies and shows with fairly meaningful endings.

Hell, there are a few games. Xenogears. FFVII. Some more. Not perfect but they resonate.

books and shows are differnt from games.

Games have a stupider fanbase they have to appeal to.

Heh, fair point... but I dunno man, shows often have some pretty stupid fanbases too... 

[AdmiralCheez]

Wulfram wrote...

So it's just the 6 ME3 squad mates you want to live?  They can kill off all the ME2 guys who aren't in the squad, Joker, Anderson, Shepard, Earth, Wrex?

I'd like to save those, too, if I can, but I'd say squadmates have priority since, you know, THEY ARE KIND OF ESSENTIAL TO GAMEPLAY.

So it's frustrating even without the emotional attachment because it's like taking away half you guns, powers, and gameplay strategies.

[Wulfram]

They're not essential to the gameplay if they die right at the end. And if you can pick the ones you weren't going to pick for that last couple of battles anyway.

edit: They're certainly less essential to gameplay than Shepard:P

Modifié par Wulfram, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Wulfram wrote...

They're not essential to the gameplay if they die right at the end. And if you can pick the ones you weren't going to pick for that last couple of battles anyway.

You can continue to play after you've beaten it, like ME2.

edit: They're certainly less essential to gameplay than Shepard

shepar dusnat hab all da powers an all da guns

[Killjoy Cutter]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Okay, here comes my weird and creepy sleep-deprived wall of text of the week.

I was doing a little reflecting earlier about how I'm paragon like 75% of the time and no one ever dies in the Suicide Mission.  I asked myself, "Why the hell do I keep doing this?  It's unrealistic and stupid to save the galaxy by being a nice person, and coming out of a mission like that unscathed borders on ridiculous."

And then I realized, hey, it's because it's unrealistic that I do it in the first place.

Spoiler alert: Real life sucks.  Every day, we have to face how powerless we are, how often we screw up, how bad things will keep happening to good people no matter how hard we try to stop it.  Sure, we can contribute our hearts and souls to good causes, work until our backs break to make things better, and offer all the help and comfort to the ones we love, but ultimately, the happy endings don't last.  The bad guys stay in power, the good guys get shoved to the wayside, and we retreat into our religions and philosophies to try to make sense of it all and make it hurt less.  Pessimistic, I know.  I do try hard (and should try harder), but really, I can't get over how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things.

So then this game comes along.  It has cool aliens, good voice acting, and you get to shoot people.  Awesome, sign me up.  But then when I played it a certain way, I couldn't help but feel a little better about myself.

Basically, Mass Effect (2) offers an elaborate fantasy in which the player has the power to save the world in his or her own way.  It gave me a mature, deep, and (despite the sci-fi thing) incredibly realistic environment in which I could take those kindergarten morals I'd never quite let go of and put them in the hands of an unstoppable and charismatic space marine.

Sure, I can't stop genocide or corporate corruption.  I can't intervene when a close friend is about to get seriously hurt.  I can't fight wars or sway entire populations or protect the innocent.  But Shepard can.

And even though it's all just pretend, I can't help but think the experience has been a little therapeutic.

I know it's silly to think I can have sunshine and bunnies in the face of a galactic apocalypse, but I want 'em anyway.  I want to keep playing pretend, to screw the rules and do the impossible, to protect the people I care about in a way I can't protect them in real life.

So if the fine folks at Bioware have squeezed in one little possible endgame scenario in which the crew makes it out alive again and I don't have to basically murder my space-BFFs to win, even if there's like a 10% chance of getting that ending, I'd be eternally grateful.  Too late to really impact the story at this point, sure, but if the tweets are to be believed, I'm going to spend half the game sobbing anyway, so is wanting to watch the credits roll with a stupid, satisfied grin on my face too much to ask?

Because that's one of the reasons I keep playing these games: Shepard is the hero I wished I could be back in kindergarten, and both the kid and the adult in me would like to see hundreds of hours and dollars conclude with a happy ending.  Granted, I'll get over it if it doesn't, but still, I'm more likely to play it again if it makes me feel good when I'm done, right?

And if you think this rant is weird, blame Bioware for making a game good enough for me to care this much.  It's hard to get people to care this much about the fate of a few lumps of programming with voices attached.  What strange voodoo are you crazy bastards practicing, anyway?  I'll bet you can make a god damn plastic bottle that people would get emotionally attached to, sheesh...

Also, I'm a selfish, socially reclusive crybaby in desperate need of therapy.  That could also attribute to any and all WTF-ness of this thread.

OVER TO YOU, MY LOVELIES: What weird, childish fantasies has Mass fulfilled for you, if any?  Do you think happy endings and No One Left Behinds belong in a game like ME3?  If not, why?  Would you accept that sort of thing if it was optional/difficult to achieve?  How do you want to feel when the credits roll?

EDIT: Bolded the point of the thread since some people think I want to avoid every single dark and gloomy aspect of a war story altogether.  Nope, just no completely forced squad deaths.

Maybe I've missed something, but you make it sound like ME3 is going to be full of squadmates and notable NPCs dying unavoidably. 

Do I have another reason to say "eff it" to the ME franchise after making it this far,  and save my money for something that won't ****** me off? 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:43 .

[Prince Zeel]

JeffZero wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh goodness, stop and listen. I'm making a point here.
Isn't a sci-fi fantasy game the WORST place to expect a "meaningful" ending?


Seriously guys, It'd be like going to a Highschool Football game, bringing orange juice and a warm sweater.

...no, I don't think so anyway. Unless the 'game' distinction is supposed to be the end-all? There are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy books, movies and shows with fairly meaningful endings.

Hell, there are a few games. Xenogears. FFVII. Some more. Not perfect but they resonate.

books and shows are differnt from games.

Games have a stupider fanbase they have to appeal to.

Heh, fair point... but I dunno man, shows often have some pretty stupid fanbases too... 

Agree. thats why most shows are completely moronic. I think Farscape is the only sci-fi show i've seen that had a decent storyline. and even then it wasn't a homerun.

Stick to books for good storylines.

[JeffZero]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Do I have another reason to say "eff it" to the ME franchise making it this far,  and save my money for something that won't ****** me off? 

No, you don't. At least not by my calculations. The very fact that you have any reason to say that means your interpretation of the current state of the franchise is wildly different from my own.

But there's been no confirmation that any characters live or die thus far. No one knows anything about that.

[AdmiralCheez]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Stick to books for good storylines.

Twilight would like a word with you.

[JeffZero]

Prince Zeel wrote...
Agree. thats why most shows are completely moronic. I think Farscape is the only sci-fi show i've seen that had a decent storyline. and even then it wasn't a homerun.

Stick to books for good storylines.

There are several others out there... to me, anyway. As far as sci-fi goes, I love me some Star Trek: DS9, Babylon 5 and a few others. But Farscape is definitely in there.

And yeah, none are ever complete home runs. Books for the win. Much better ratio.

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Stick to books for good storylines.

Twilight would like a word with you.

Much better ratio. Ratio! Important word I have added! 

[AdmiralCheez]

JeffZero wrote...

Much better ratio. Ratio! Important word I have added!

Clearly, you've never actually been in a bookstore or library.

Most of it is sh*t.  Just like every other entertainment medium.

Books have just been around the longest, so they have the most street cred.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:36 .

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Much better ratio. Ratio! Important word I have added!

Clearly, you've never actually been in a bookstore or library.

Most of it is sh*t.  Just like every other entertainment medium.

Books have just been around the longest, so they have the most street cred.

I won't deny this. At the same time, however, if I am at my local bookstore and there are three hundred sci-fi novels, my typical estimation pins 40 or so of those as worth reading. By comparison, there haven't even been 300 sci-fi television shows, not by a long shot, and I'd put 15 of them as worth watching all the way through.

[JeffZero]

Er, I will deny that I haven't been to one of these places, however. I spend half my free time at Barnes & Noble.

[AdmiralCheez]

JeffZero wrote...

I won't deny this. At the same time, however, if I am at my local bookstore and there are three hundred sci-fi novels, my typical estimation pins 40 or so of those as worth reading. By comparison, there haven't even been 300 sci-fi television shows, not by a long shot, and I'd put 15 of them as worth watching all the way through.

I think this may be because books have much fewer varibles attached.  You can't have bad acting or bad set design in a book since it's all text.

[Killjoy Cutter]

And unlike a game, a book doesn't have to account for the protagonist progressing through the story in a zillion different orders of events.

[Prince Zeel]

Jeff Zero is doing a good job of debunking your arguments.

He's right, the crap to best seller ratio is much better than TV shows and games. Books demand a certain quality, just because the average reader has more of an attention span.

Modifié par Prince Zeel, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:46 .

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I won't deny this. At the same time, however, if I am at my local bookstore and there are three hundred sci-fi novels, my typical estimation pins 40 or so of those as worth reading. By comparison, there haven't even been 300 sci-fi television shows, not by a long shot, and I'd put 15 of them as worth watching all the way through.

I think this may be because books have much fewer varibles attached.  You can't have bad acting or bad set design in a book since it's all text.

Certainly. I personally love the end result of seeing those variables add up to something special -- I wouldn't be studying to become (at least) a voice actor if I felt otherwise. But the formula is there -- books just have to be written well and edited decently to be good. Television shows jump through more loops and oftentimes one of those loops trips them up badly.

[BubbleSauce]

[quote]Prince Zeel wrote...

"brings up" as in, lightly mentions and then runs as far away as possible. Sorry, "racism" was HARDLY touched on, a quick racist remark (im hoping by racism you mean humans vs aliens, because otherwise, racism was NOT touched upon)[/quote]

There are many instances of racism against humans and otherwise in the game, your character can state their opinion on the matter on a variety of occasions, you can see terra firma protests and instances of cerberus' exploit, which have the interests of humanity in mind, but often at the expense of other races, and you can decide to rally for, or against in a number of occasions. Racism is referanced to quite a few times in the mass effect games.

[quote]Prince Zeel wrote...

"oppression" isn't a Controversial topic and it wasn't touched on at all. What game were you playing?![/quote]

I should ask you the same question.

Look at the council, there are three main races which retain sovrereignty over the other citadel races, those races have to succumb to citadel law and if they do not, then they are cast out of council space and labeled enemies of state. If that's not oppression I don't what is.[/quote]

[quote]Prince Zeel wrote...

Civil liberty. LOL!!! now you're just stretching. Me and you must be playing completely different games. My game had me punching people and visiting a asari strip club.[/quote]

Are you joking? Yes while my game did have me going to strip clubs, it was for plot reasons, I didn't merely go there to stare at virtual dancers, I don't know if you did either but to each their own I suppose. Did you play legion's loyalty mission? Imagine if you had every sigle thought and opinion that you held dear taken away from you, so much so that if you were to meet yourself prior to the transformation, you wouldn't recognise yourself at all, simply because someone who had power and control over your future considered you a threat! That, is a complete breach of civil liberty, and that is in itself a very good example of how mass effect does make you think about what you are doing and who you are effecting.

[quote]Prince Zeel wrote...

I'm sorry if you've mistaken this series for more than a fun shoot-em-up-with-a-decent-story. But its time to grow up.[/quote]

Grow up? Really? Your profile has an apology in it to all those you have offended on this forum in the past, in which you promise to "behave" like a child who's come back from his punishment after doing something wrong. I really don't think being told to "grow up" means anything at all coming from you. 

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 07 octobre 2011 - 08:47 .