4309 réponses à ce sujet

[CptBomBom00]

Mi-Chan wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...

So we talking about Lord of the Rings now and not about Mass Effect?

We're talking about fiction, and how the ending of Mass Effect can be satisfying without being cheesy. A perfect "No one dies, and Shepard is a big goddamn hero" is boring, and won't leave an impact. But if some civillians hate Shepard for what he had to do, or some of your squadmates died it's no longer perfect and the story feels more real.

The important part is that it doesn't have to be a squadmate, at least not on my opinion.

Thank you for entlighing me. Peace.

[Athayniel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

This is extremely ignorant. I'm a writer, and I've "killed" characters in my books (and I'm no sadist). There is no "professional enjoyment" in the act; there is enjoyment in the learning, the experience, the wisdom, that COMES from the act.

Really, I find that just ridiculous.

You're not denying that it isn't sometime the case though right? You can't be that naive. Anyway, I'm being slightly facetious, the choice itself is sadistic in these cases. You can dispute the terminology if you wish but that is mostly semantics. Virmire follows the trope exactly and is actually an example listed on the page at TVTropes. And considering I've already made my feelings on Virmire clear I'll leave it at that.

[BatmanPWNS]

Athayniel wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Mi-Chan wrote...

/OPINION DISCLAIMER.

Aww man, the opinion disclaimer.

Mi-ChanPWNS!

No one PWNS more than Batman. 



BTW, Zaeed wish he could say it like that.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 15 octobre 2011 - 08:14 .

[Athayniel]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

I forgot to ask what is this Galaxy at war thing in ME3

You'll want to read the multiplayer FAQ to find the answer of your question.

[jamesp81]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

This is extremely ignorant. I'm a writer, and I've "killed" characters in my books (and I'm no sadist). There is no "professional enjoyment" in the act; there is enjoyment in the learning, the experience, the wisdom, that COMES from the act.

Really, I find that just ridiculous.

You're not denying that it isn't sometime the case though right? You can't be that naive. Anyway, I'm being slightly facetious, the choice itself is sadistic in these cases. You can dispute the terminology if you wish but that is mostly semantics. Virmire follows the trope exactly and is actually an example listed on the page at TVTropes. And considering I've already made my feelings on Virmire clear I'll leave it at that.

The "sometimes" would be almost infintesmally small. We writers don't "kill off" characters because we take pleasure from them dying. It just isn't so.

I find it easier to just not kill of my important characters.

But I'll have you convinced they're dead meat about halfway through, though.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

When we say 'sadistic choice' we mean that there is no good outcome to the choice. Both sides of the coin are bad. It is not a reflection or comment on the character of the person making the choice.

I'd still argue that colors the issue. Why is that choice sadistic? Hard/difficult covers that distinction well enough because there's not third option. There is nothing necessarily sadistic about it.

But he can't feel warm and fuzzy!
How can you not understand that you sadist!

[Lotion Soronarr]

jamesp81 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I'm going re-iterate it this, and I'm going to type real slow to make it easy to understand.

Most people do not buy games to be subjected to sadistic choices.

It is unreasonable to demand that your ending be in the game AND demand that mine isn't.  That is un-****ing-reasonable.

They're not sadistic.
They're expected..normal...logical. But not sadistic.

And you're basicly demanding the same thing. Sure, you say you aren't because "your ending is technicly there". The fact that it's made worthless and basicly unplayable - so it might as well nto be there in the firt place - escapes you.

You've likely played Dragon Age Origins, judging from your avatar.

Does the "Hero of Ferelden" ending invalidate the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending in that game?

I'll give you a hint: No, it doesn't.  That much is clear by how many people are fans of that particular ending.  It is good that people that prefer that sort of story have their ending, and it is good that people he prefer the heroic ending also have theirs.

Given that the other option was to leave the archdemons soul in tact, in the hands of an amoral and shifty witch...nope.
I have 0 regrets making the ultimate sacrifice. For me it was basicly a binary choice, as I saw no merit whatsoever in the Dark Ritual. Other people may have.

Either way you put it - people die or leave you - and you don't have a choice in all of it.
And DA:O isn't ME3. What works in A doesn't necessarily work as well in B.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Athayniel wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Then I assume you consider most serious fiction, films, and epic poems sadistic then. It's good to know that every time some character died in a story or some thought experiment was put forth that the author was only doing it out of sadism. In other words, this is where your points stop having value.

Just because their purpose is to educate doesn't mean there isn't a little sadism involved in the conception of the sadistic choice. They are attempting to ellicit a response and when they succeed they will feel at least a little professional enjoyment in the act. A writer never says 'I'm really sorry I made you cry when I killed your favourite character.'

Crybaby.

Also, I agree with Il Divo. After coming out with lines like that, your crediblity went down the toilet.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jamesp81 wrote...

In any case, it's not up for debate AFAIC.  If the grim people get a grim ending, it's perfectly reasonable for those of us that prefer a happier ending to get one.  That's not a negotiating position, that's a condition of me purchasing the game.

I love it how people get all uppity and throw around threats how they will not buy a game if it doesn't have X.
So fickle...

[JeffZero]

Let me... enslave them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mi-Chan wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...

So we talking about Lord of the Rings now and not about Mass Effect?

We're talking about fiction, and how the ending of Mass Effect can be satisfying without being cheesy. A perfect "No one dies, and Shepard is a big goddamn hero" is boring, and won't leave an impact. But if some civillians hate Shepard for what he had to do, or some of your squadmates died it's no longer perfect and the story feels more real.

The important part is that it doesn't have to be a squadmate, at least not in my opinion.

Personally, I feel it MUST be a squadmate. At least one..or two.

[JeffZero]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Let me... enslave them.

So you're just gonna drop by and present some rhyme on save? lol.

Yeah, I'll be honest with ya, I don't know why the hell I keep doing this. I think it's my body's natural reflex at how stunned my brain is that the conversation keeps going.

[JeffZero]

Nyoka wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Let me... enslave them.

Jade Empire.

Oh hey. Well I'm a happy customer then. 

[Il Divo]

Nyoka wrote...

In Jade Empire you can kill all your squadmates (except for one...who dies to save you. lol), enslave your enemy's puppet (who was in turn enslaved by him), kill your enemy, enslave a God, and then enslave the Empire.

You can even kick puppies.

Why not puppy kicking for ME3? That's drama right there.

That was probably my single favorite instance of being a bad guy in a Bioware game. My reaction when I found out I could enslave all my comrades...

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Personally, I feel it MUST be a squadmate. At least one..or two.

I definitely feel like the squad-mates make for a good target in Bioware games. Of course, I'm willing to consider other options depending on how creative/deep they want to get in emphasizing the sacrifice.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

jamesp81 wrote...

You've likely played Dragon Age Origins, judging from your avatar.

Does the "Hero of Ferelden" ending invalidate the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending in that game?

I'll give you a hint: No, it doesn't.  That much is clear by how many people are fans of that particular ending.  It is good that people that prefer that sort of story have their ending, and it is good that people he prefer the heroic ending also have theirs.

It would be a good move to have ME3's endings include similar possible outcomes.

Short answer: Yes, it does.

It may not within the game itself (as in Origins vanilla), but as soon as Awakening and subsequent DLC + sequel enter the picture, it becomes a whole 'nother story.

[Hathur]

Nyoka wrote...

In Jade Empire you can kill all your squadmates (except for one...who dies to save you. lol), enslave your enemy's puppet (who was in turn enslaved by him), kill your enemy, enslave a God, and then enslave the Empire.

You can even kick puppies.

Why not puppy kicking for ME3? That's drama right there.

Fallout 1 & 2 you could shoot / blow up children.... as I discovered to my horror when I threw a grenade at a raider and missed 

[Undertone]

jamesp81 wrote...

4.  Complete the campaign without losing any squad members, or at least long time ones from previous games.

My particular beef is with this in particular. Giving squad members, especially fan favorite squad members plot armos is ****ing retarded. Nobody should be safe and everyone should have equal oppurtunity to die. 

Seriously if no one dies by the end of ME3 from my squad then the Reaper invasion has been a ****ing joke. 

Modifié par Undertone, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:24 .