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[Il Divo]

chunkyman wrote...

 This thread is about all things Star Wars!

My favorite Star Wars movie was Revenge of the Sith, but I prefer the original trilogy as a whole. Episodes One and Two were rubbish in my opinion, partly because they weren't well written.

I hate the expanded universe of Star Wars, I think George Lucas ruined the universe by letting people write terrible things and have it become canon. The number of books and video games that conflict with the beauty of the movies is astounding. The Jedi were said to extinct except for Obi-wan and Yoda, but according to canon books the movies apparently lied and about a trillion actually survived...

The two worse atrocities that Lucas allowed to become canon were Luke turning to the dark side and Palpatine cloning himself to stay alive (and return from the dead). The movies had a wonderful ending where Vader was redeemed by sacrificing himself to kill Palpatine, but according to the books that did nothing and he returned shortly after.... 

The Thrawn Trilogy and KOTOR are the only good non-movie canon stories, because they follow the lore made in the movies and are great in their own right.

To lazy and didn't read? Here's a funny Ewok.  

Depends on the EU. I too consider Episode III the best of the Star Wars films, despite being a part of the weaker trilogy.

As the EU goes, I tend to enjoy most of the pre-KotOR content. I liked most of the Sith history, hearing about Marka Ragnos, Darth Bane, Exar Kun, etc. On the other hand, I find everything after Episode VI worthless, from Emperor's clones to Cade Skywalker. I think one primary issue is that with pre-KotOR storylines, Star Wars writers seem less afraid to let the characters draw to a close. Luke's best storyline was in the original trilogy, yet the "writers" still have an ongoing story 20 years later. It's non-sense.

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 octobre 2011 - 09:39 .

[Il Divo]

Pacifien wrote...





And then here's the Jedi Temple in Attack of the Clones:



In one image, there is a hanger. It is a functioning hanger. There appear to be pilots and mechanics and snow that is getting everywhere. In the other image, there is... uh... well, Yoda has the right idea by getting around that massive place in a hovering chair, let me tell you.

But this is where George Lucas tends to fail with CGI. It's pretty but it doesn't take advantage of the fact that he is using movie technology to tell a story here unless the additional information he wanted to convey is that the Jedi like to overdo architecture.

I'm not sure what this is intended to convey, or at least what the first picture says that the second doesn't. Each demonstrates what's going on in the background. The first demonstrates the rag tag rebels and their pilots. The second demonstrates the religious Jedi holding a discussion in their temple. Of all the prequel's flaws, is this necessarily one of them?

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 octobre 2011 - 09:40 .

[Pacifien]

Il Divo wrote...
I'm not sure what this is intended to convey, or at least what the first picture says that the second doesn't. Each demonstrates what's going on in the background. The first demonstrates the rag tag rebels and their pilots. The second demonstrates the religious Jedi holding a discussion in their temple. Of all the prequel's flaws, is this necessarily one of them?

Pretty much, yes. Because there is nothing going on in the background of the second image. It's an extremely grandiose setting in which a few characters have been set to have a conversation and they interfere with each other. Either the focus is what their conversation is, in which case the large setting detracts, or Lucas is trying to add something about the Jedi in showing off the temple. And personally, the Jedi Temple is about as devoid of any architectural interest to me whatsoever.

I mean, some people observe a painting or a sculpture and can see that every line is deliberate. Many CGI backgrounds are meaningless without any thought into their composition at all.

Now Star Wars isn't fine art. But George Lucas used to be considered a promising director from USC. I mean, enough to almost be the director of Apocalypse Now. I expect that type of person to at least care.

[Il Divo]

Pacifien wrote...

Pretty much, yes. Because there is nothing going on in the background of the second image. It's an extremely grandiose setting in which a few characters have been set to have a conversation and they interfere with each other. Either the focus is what their conversation is, in which case the large setting detracts, or Lucas is trying to add something about the Jedi in showing off the temple. And personally, the Jedi Temple is about as devoid of any architectural interest to me whatsoever.

That nothing is going on in the background itself speaks to the nature of the setting, that of a temple. Other locations, such as Dex's diner, feature characters ordering drinks, eating dinner, etc. What is happening in a background should necessarily reflect the setting. The camera pans out from that view of the temple to the conversation at hand. I personally don't see how this is a flaw or an indicator of Star Wars' change in focus. I for example would argue that the activities of the rebels in the background are far less interesting than that of the main cast. But that background noise still says something about the setting, as does the serene temple say something about the Jedi.

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:02 .

[Morroian]

Pacifien wrote...

What I hate about Revenge of the Sith is that I did not care that Anakin Skywalker failed magnificently in the end. Nothing across all three films convinced me that this was a tragic fall in the traditionaly meaning of the word tragic. It was an inevitable fall to a character I never liked.

I hated eps 2 and 3 because the Anakin/Padme romance is the worst written romance in the history of civilisation and Anakin's fall is just rendered trite. Joss Whedon in Dr Horrible wrote a better and more involving story of the creation of a tragic villain through love in 25 minutes than Lucas could across 6 hours.

The original ep 4 remains my favorite. Empire has too much of a middle of a trilogy feel and in ROTJ we got Ewoks instead of Wookies. 

[Zanallen]

Lucas is a hack and always has been a hack. The problem now is that he's so famous that no one is willing to disagree with his crazy ideas.

[DestinedMalice]

Anakin in Clone Wars was murder worthy. The guy was supposed to be in his late teens/ early twenties., et he behaved more like a dim witted child than he EVER did in Phantom Menace.

Personally I think that KOTOR is the best thing to come out of the expanded universe. Although I do like the character of Quinlan Vos. A Jedi with dreadlocks. That's just plain magnificent.


EDIT: And why oh WHY does everybody become a frickin Force Ghost after Obi Wan. What's the point of people dying if they come back two days later to tell you it's ok they died and that you better watch your back next time you're out and about in Le Galaxy. I goddam HATE Force Ghosts.

Modifié par DestinedMalice, 07 octobre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Zanallen]

Anakin is just a stupid character all around.

1. Why didn't he have Padme purchase his mother? He just helped save her entire planet. His mother is a slave on a desert craphole. Why not ask for Padme to send someone out to purchase his mother and give her a job in the palace?

2. The younglings. How do you go from a slightly messed up on the verge of evil guy who just wants to protect the woman he loves from dying to murdering children four minutes later?

And a lot more that I don't feel like getting into. Those are just my top two issues with Anakin.

Modifié par Zanallen, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:08 .

[chunkyman]

Pacifien wrote...
And, you know, all parents screw up their first attempt at raising a child. (Which is why I'm perfect and my brother isn't.)

This made me laugh.

One thing I disliked about The Prequels is that most backdrops were either overdone "Bang-bang-explosionz!" eye candy, or they were seemingly random CGI places. Nothing had any real purpose behind it other than looking pretty. The times they tried giving places meaning was so overdone that it detracted from what they were trying to show story-wise (Mustafar). It seemed like Lucas either hit you over the head with setting based symbolism or just put up random nice CGI images.

Here are my examples.


We get it, the blue lightsabers contrast nicely with the red "angry" planet. No need to overdo it Lucas. <_<




Luke looking out at the dual stars is a more powerful and well done image than any backdrop in the prequels. It is simple, looks great, has subtle symbolism, and doesn't detract from the story but adds to it.

[xxSylphxx]

Also an Old Star Wars (vs new) fan.

One of the things I was really looking forward to with the release of the prequel trilogy was seeing the Jedi order when it was intact. I expected something akin to the Shaolin 'warrior monk" temples where spiritual guidance was happening alongside martial training. Somethin like the television show "Kung Fu" only with lightsabers and visible chi effects. Though Yoda with the younglings was good, it was the lone positive glimpse into Jedi training. No hordes of Jedi mastering force pushes or lightsaber skills, no mass meditations, just lots of meetings and walking around in areas that looked more like government buildings than a temple as Pacifen demonstrated with this picture.

Pacifien wrote...

And then here's the Jedi Temple in Attack of the Clones:

To constrast heres a Tibetan Temple interior



More later...

[Volus Warlord]

Eh. Empire Strikes Back was the best of all six imho. Less blatant retardedness than the other 5 movies.
Obligatory image:
http://www.moviepost...in/66/MPW-33432

I wonder when the next re-re-re-re-re-re-release is?

[The Love Runner]

Anybody check out the complete saga on blu-ray? Are the changes for better, for worse, or do they not really change the perspective at all?

Out of all the characters in the series, Darth Vader is my favorite. Even though he got tragically burned on Mustafar, I consider him very awesome, even more so when, in Episode I, it was revealed that his Midi-Chlorian count is higher than even Yoda's, making him more powerful in the Force in my opinion.

[chunkyman]

Galactic Runner wrote...

Anybody check out the complete saga on blu-ray? Are the changes for better, for worse, or do they not really change the perspective at all?

Out of all the characters in the series, Darth Vader is my favorite. Even though he got tragically burned on Mustafar, I consider him very awesome, even more so when, in Episode I, it was revealed that his Midi-Chlorian count is higher than even Yoda's, making him more powerful in the Force in my opinion.

Changes, what changes?!?! 

Oh god, what did Lucas do now? 

Modifié par chunkyman, 08 octobre 2011 - 02:22 .

[The Love Runner]

chunkyman wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

Anybody check out the complete saga on blu-ray? Are the changes for better, for worse, or do they not really change the perspective at all?

Out of all the characters in the series, Darth Vader is my favorite. Even though he got tragically burned on Mustafar, I consider him very awesome, even more so when, in Episode I, it was revealed that his Midi-Chlorian count is higher than even Yoda's, making him more powerful in the Force in my opinion.

Changes, what changes?!?! 

Well, every time a major re-release of the Star Wars movies is distributed, changes are made to certain details in order to match the original vision George Lucas had with the movies.

[Bryy_Miller]

Pacifien wrote...

This would have worked if the traffic in that temple looked like friggin' NEW YORK.

You know, like the rest of the planet.

chunkyman wrote...

Yes.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.

Pacifien wrote...

I personally think Revenge of the Sith is one of the worst movies ever and, of the prequels, The Phantom Menace was the best of the lot.

Agreed. Although, the Volcano Fight was pretty radical and cowabunga.

chunkyman wrote...




Luke looking out at the dual stars is a more powerful and well done image than any backdrop in the prequels. It is simple, looks great, has subtle symbolism, and doesn't detract from the story but adds to it.

I've always loved that scene because it shows a human in awe of his surroundings. To us, it's amazing, but to Luke, it's also amazing. But for different reasons. 

Zanallen wrote...

Lucas is a hack and always has been a hack. The problem now is that he's so famous that no one is willing to disagree with his crazy ideas.

This.

The original four drafts of Star Wars are effing ridiculous and would have bankrupt Fox.

Just ordered my Blu-Ray OT today. Happy happy. It will be the first thing my new rig plays.

[xxSylphxx]

Galactic Runner wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

Anybody check out the complete saga on blu-ray? Are the changes for better, for worse, or do they not really change the perspective at all?

Out of all the characters in the series, Darth Vader is my favorite. Even though he got tragically burned on Mustafar, I consider him very awesome, even more so when, in Episode I, it was revealed that his Midi-Chlorian count is higher than even Yoda's, making him more powerful in the Force in my opinion.

Changes, what changes?!?! 

Well, every time a major re-release of the Star Wars movies is distributed, changes are made to certain details in order to match the original vision George Lucas had with the movies.

So far as I can tell there are no additional changes beyond those that occured in the rerelease. The bonus meterials however do include a spoof reel (Robot Chicken, Family Guy, Chad Vader, etc)

[Zanallen]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This.

The original four drafts of Star Wars are effing ridiculous and would have bankrupt Fox.

Just ordered my Blu-Ray OT today. Happy happy. It will be the first thing my new rig plays.

Yep. People forget that Lucas didn't even direct TESB and RotJ. Nor was he the only writer for those two films. Unlike the prequels where he had full creative control and no one had the balls to tell him that Jar Jar was a stupid idea and that a nine year old Anakin Skywalker would ruin the mystique of the character.

Edit: I read a post on the TOR forums that offered a really interesting version of the prequels. It basically skipped the Phantom Menace and started off right in the clone wars. The clones were the bad guys and Anakin was a late teens early 20s fighter pilot of remarkable skill. He meets Obi-Wan Kenobi as they are fighting and Obi-Wan senses Anakin's connection to the Force and decides to train him despite his age.

Modifié par Zanallen, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:03 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Zanallen wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This.

The original four drafts of Star Wars are effing ridiculous and would have bankrupt Fox.

Just ordered my Blu-Ray OT today. Happy happy. It will be the first thing my new rig plays.

Yep. People forget that Lucas didn't even direct TESB and RotJ. Nor was he the only writer for those two films. Unlike the prequels where he had full creative control and no one had the balls to tell him that Jar Jar was a stupid idea and that a nine year old Anakin Skywalker would ruin the mystique of the character.

While I did like seeing what made Vader, well, Vader, I didn't like the execution. Instead of a monster, he's just emo.

Galactic Runner wrote...
Well, every time a major re-release of the Star Wars movies is distributed, changes are made to certain details in order to match the original vision George Lucas had with the movies.

You seriously believe this?

This is when everyone should have started questioning Lucas. The moment he talked about redoing the films to match some idealistic vision he had in his head.

xxSylphxx wrote...
So far as I can tell there are no additional changes beyond those that occured in the rerelease. The bonus meterials however do include a spoof reel (Robot Chicken, Family Guy, Chad Vader, etc)

1) Darth Vader's "NOOOOOO" is edited in for the scene where Palpatine is electrocuting Luke.
2) There is a new Krayt Dragon Yell to make it sound more like Obi-Wan is making the noise.
3) Anakin's ghost is now Hayden Christenson.
4) Darth Vader without his helmet is now an aged Hayden Christenson.

[chunkyman]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

1) Darth Vader's "NOOOOOO" is edited in for the scene where Palpatine is electrocuting Luke.
2) There is a new Krayt Dragon Yell to make it sound more like Obi-Wan is making the noise.
3) Anakin's ghost is now Hayden Christenson.
4) Darth Vader without his helmet is now an aged Hayden Christenson.

WHY?!?

The only one I'm okay with is number 3, the rest are horrible.

Modifié par chunkyman, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:14 .

[xxSylphxx]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

xxSylphxx wrote...
So far as I can tell there are no additional changes beyond those that occured in the rerelease. The bonus meterials however do include a spoof reel (Robot Chicken, Family Guy, Chad Vader, etc)

1) Darth Vader's "NOOOOOO" is edited in for the scene where Palpatine is electrocuting Luke.
2) There is a new Krayt Dragon Yell to make it sound more like Obi-Wan is making the noise.
3) Anakin's ghost is now Hayden Christenson.
4) Darth Vader without his helmet is now an aged Hayden Christenson.

Apparently I missed some other changes as well http://www.movieweb....hanges-revealed though I actually did notice Obi Wan's funny yell, I didn't notice any changes to Darth Vader unmasked.

[Zanallen]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

While I did like seeing what made Vader, well, Vader, I didn't like the execution. Instead of a monster, he's just emo.

My issue with it is that it seemed rushed in odd spurts, kind of contrived and relied on stupid events.

As I mentioned earlier, Anakin could have easily prevented his mother's death by asking Padme to look after her. Yes, Jedi aren't supposed to have family, but he wasn't even an official padawan until the end of the film. He could have asked his friend who's planet he had just helped save to purchase his mother from Watto and set her up with a job on Naboo as a boon or something. But no. Anakin had to abandon his mother to a life of slavery and eventual death so Lucas could use her death as a lame stepping stone later on. I would have at least had her abducted by Separatists to be used as a bargaining chip or by Palpatine to manipulate Anakin.

And how does he go from relatively a good guy driven to do bad things in order to save the woman he loves to murdering children in basically the next scene?

[chunkyman]

Zanallen wrote...


My issue with it is that it seemed rushed in odd spurts, kind of contrived and relied on stupid events.

One of my favorite stupid moments was in Revenge of the Sith where Obi-Wan has those little droid things land on his ship during the opening scene. Instead of force pushing them off (like a logical person would do), he has Anakin shoot and ram his ship. Seriously, someone must have realized how illogical and stupid that was when reading the script, why didn't they tell Lucas to change it?!?

[Bryy_Miller]

Zanallen wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

While I did like seeing what made Vader, well, Vader, I didn't like the execution. Instead of a monster, he's just emo.

My issue with it is that it seemed rushed in odd spurts, kind of contrived and relied on stupid events.

As I mentioned earlier, Anakin could have easily prevented his mother's death by asking Padme to look after her. Yes, Jedi aren't supposed to have family, but he wasn't even an official padawan until the end of the film. He could have asked his friend who's planet he had just helped save to purchase his mother from Watto and set her up with a job on Naboo as a boon or something. But no. Anakin had to abandon his mother to a life of slavery and eventual death so Lucas could use her death as a lame stepping stone later on. I would have at least had her abducted by Separatists to be used as a bargaining chip or by Palpatine to manipulate Anakin.

And how does he go from relatively a good guy driven to do bad things in order to save the woman he loves to murdering children in basically the next scene?

The problem is that, while Lucas said that he had evrything planned out, he didn't.

He had events planned out, not scripts.

Also, my friends did a reading of Episode III Abridged on their podcast two years ago:

chunkyman wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

1) Darth Vader's "NOOOOOO" is edited in for the scene where Palpatine is electrocuting Luke.
2) There is a new Krayt Dragon Yell to make it sound more like Obi-Wan is making the noise.
3) Anakin's ghost is now Hayden Christenson.
4) Darth Vader without his helmet is now an aged Hayden Christenson.

WHY?!?

The only one I'm okay with is number 3, the rest are horrible.

I bough the trilogy. I'm not okay with the changes, but it doesn't ruin it for me.

[Jiggasaurus]

chunkyman wrote...

Zanallen wrote...


My issue with it is that it seemed rushed in odd spurts, kind of contrived and relied on stupid events.

One of my favorite stupid moments was in Revenge of the Sith where Obi-Wan has those little droid things land on his ship during the opening scene. Instead of force pushing them off (like a logical person would do), he has Anakin shoot and ram his ship. Seriously, someone must have realized how illogical and stupid that was when reading the script, why didn't they tell Lucas to change it?!?

Can Jedi actually force push through something like the ship exterior and interior i.e. would he not have Force pushed the spaceships windscreen off before reaching the robot shattering it and killing himself in the process?

[chunkyman]

Jiggasaurus wrote...


Can Jedi actually force push through something like the ship exterior and interior i.e. would he not have Force pushed the spaceships windscreen off before reaching the robot shattering it and killing himself in the process?

Yep. In "The Empire Strikes Back", Vader force chokes an officer to death who was in a nearby Star Destroyer.

Modifié par chunkyman, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:00 .