79 réponses à ce sujet

[yusuf060297]

DarkSun522 wrote...

yusuf060297 wrote...

DarkSun522 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Didn't mind it in ME, I just found it annoying in DA2 since we were also forced to become "diplomatic" "sarcastic" or "aggressive" plus those stupid icons. I'll take an ME good-neutral-bad system any day.

Please tell me how that is different from Mass Effect's Paragon and Renegade system?

the difference is that in da2 are ALL choices labeled, in ME they had at least normal answers.Every answer was hyped in da2.just think of ME with the sarcastic option of da2 omg 

Is labeling them a bad thing? A little organization never hurt. In ME, if you didn't know that choices on top = good and choices on bottom = bad, how would you know the tone of what you're saying? The symbols help indicate that tone. Also, ME could probably use a more neutral way to approach things. You were either Renegade or Paragon, but what if you didn't want to be either? What if you just wanted to stay somewhere in the middle? At least in DA II you are offered the chance to make fun of things if you don't want to be mean or nice to people.

i think its a bad thing that they labble it.without labeling you get more choices. Without a big symbol on it telling you Its the bad choice or the good choice. look at the witcher 2 it did exactly it , its like dao with voice and the choices dont say its the bad one or good one. They shouldnt label things like that. people should think a little bit. The da2 flirts for example where really lame you just clicked on EVERY flirt option that appeared and then he/she liked you.In dao or witcher 2 you had to work a little bit to get him/her like you and if you made a bad flirt they actually reacted to it.

I Also realized that In da2 it doesnt matter which choice you choose (sarcastic,agresive,..etc) the people mostly dont react to what you say (they react at first and then continue to what they were going to say) in dao or witcher 2 it matters what you say to them.Some Conversations turn out to be WHOLLY different then a conversation that you had in a previous playtrough.It adds to the replayability.

if you want a diplomatic hawke you dont even have to listen to what they say and you always click on the first diplomatic choice and you turn up with a good hawke without even really thinking of what would happen if i said that or that.
The main point is that everything is TO EASY

click on every flirt option and he/she will like you
click on every sarcastic option and you will be a funny jerk
click on every diplomatic option and you will be good
click on every agresive option.... and so on 

do they really think people are that dumb so that the dialogue system has to be easier.its to easy for me i dont enjoy it. 

Modifié par yusuf060297, 09 octobre 2011 - 03:27 .

[Fast Jimmy]

My suggestion for this is have full text dialogue that isn't voiced, at least not initially. I agree that hearing your character say exactly what you just read is a little nonsense. So any instances where they would be repeating this would not be voiced. Then, if there is a follow up comment or question as part of the scene that the player would not chose (and could be based on character attitude, if preferable) then that would be voiced. Along with all cinematics, party banter or inspirational speech time like we saw in DA and ME2.

This would still make for a very voiced character. There are plenty of times Hawke speaks in DA2 that doesn't actually require a dialogue choice. If all the dialogue choices were written on screen and not voice acted, this would allow for greater conversation flexibility in the editing process (instead of having to bring the VAs back in every time there is a small tweak to the line) and saves money and time. Yet still gives the voiced character, adding all the emotion and high polish BW wants.

That's my two cents. Tell us what the character says, don't repeat it back to us, then give us plenty of times our Hawke or other character talks on their own based on the personality we've cultivated and I'd be happy.

[alex90c]

DarkSun522 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Didn't mind it in ME, I just found it annoying in DA2 since we were also forced to become "diplomatic" "sarcastic" or "aggressive" plus those stupid icons. I'll take an ME good-neutral-bad system any day.

Please tell me how that is different from Mass Effect's Paragon and Renegade system?

Because ME's good isn't always "diplomatic", it's simply "morally good", say for example convincing the guard outside the Omega slums to let you in. Using the paragon dialogue there Shep comes across as charming to convince the guy to let you in, rather than "diplomatic". Also, at the end of Overlord, a paragon interrupt causes you to pistol whip a guy. That would make no sense if that was considered "diplomatic".

Sarcasm... well. If we don't want to be a dick and don't want to be nice, we have to crack a poor joke? lolwhat? What happened to just giving a "normal" response? Y'know, like one where you just state fact rather than projecting a view (paragon/renegade) on an issue?

Aggressive in DA2 was just "i've got a pole up my arse" whereas in ME it was a mixture of humour (e.g. punching a guy in the stomach when you can't be arsed to deal with him in Thane's loyalty), bluntness or sometimes "I'm doing this for the greater good" (Geth may be sentient machines but destroying the heretics may be better than reprogramming them to Legion's mindset).

[Wulfram]

The wheel format seems utterly pointless, but I don't think it really hurts.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

The wheel format seems utterly pointless, but I don't think it really hurts.

It works better on console with the analog control stick. It's why HR had a wheel too. 

[Tom12]

xkg wrote...

@OP - No "Dao Style Without voice" option ?

at first i thought of adding the without voice option too but i dont think that they will ever go back to that so i let it at those options but anyway i opened a poll with more options

Modifié par Tom12, 09 octobre 2011 - 04:12 .

[xkg]

Tom12 wrote...

xkg wrote...

@OP - No "Dao Style Without voice" option ?

at first i thought of adding the whithout voice option too but i dont think that they will ever go back to that so i let it at those options but anyway i opened a poll with more options

Much better now .
Voted for the option I mentioned in my previous post.

[Joseph627]

i dont like it that much .if they want to keep the dialogue wheel they should improved it a bit (a lot) and the persuasion system could be made a lot better .For example you could use your blood magic (if your a blood mage) to read peoples mind and know what they think of you or mind control them so they say what you want.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

I'm not sure I dislike dialogue wheel. I just dislike the limited 3 personality choices and the paraphrase system since it disturbing my role-playing experience. If I'm not wrong, the dialogue wheel was meant to accommodate more dialogue lines. I haven't seen more dialogues been implemented yet and I would like BioWare to do so. Otherwise, return to full line texts and unvoiced protagonist. If you want to do something new, make sure you do it right, otherwise don't dream to be innovative.

The Wright brothers invented airplane for the benefit of all people and not to kill them instead.

[Morroian]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I'm not sure I dislike dialogue wheel. I just dislike the limited 3 personality choices and the paraphrase system since it disturbing my role-playing experience. If I'm not wrong, the dialogue wheel was meant to accommodate more dialogue lines. I haven't seen more dialogues been implemented yet  

There were more dialogue types, 16 of them, the 3 main ones (or 6 with the 3 alternates) were the only ones being tracked.

[Anomaly-]

Morroian wrote...
There were more dialogue types, 16 of them, the 3 main ones (or 6 with the 3 alternates) were the only ones being tracked.

There can be 50 dialogue types, it doesn't matter much when they all boil down to the same 3 things: Diplomatic, Humorous or Aggressive. Besides that, you almost never have more than 3 at one time to choose from.

However, the bigger problem for me is that the outcome of your choice is given to you before you choose it. You shouldn't know which choice is going to be interpreted as compassionate or aggressive, which is going to result in a fight, which is going to improve or degrade your romance, etc, before you choose it. That's just backwards. If that was how real dialogue worked, my girlfriend and I would never argue about anything. You should choose what to say based on what you want to say, not the desired result, and people will react how they react.

[ReallyRue]

I don't notice the difference between DA2's wheel and DAO's list, to be honest. I don't mind either, but I do like it when the options are more diverse. So long as there are dialogue options aplenty, I'm happy.

[ReallyRue]

Anomaly- wrote...

Morroian wrote...
There were more dialogue types, 16 of them, the 3 main ones (or 6 with the 3 alternates) were the only ones being tracked.

There can be 50 dialogue types, it doesn't matter much when they all boil down to the same 3 things: Diplomatic, Humorous or Aggressive. Besides that, you almost never have more than 3 at one time to choose from.

However, the bigger problem for me is that the outcome of your choice is given to you before you choose it. You shouldn't know which choice is going to be interpreted as compassionate or aggressive, which is going to result in a fight, which is going to improve or degrade your romance, etc, before you choose it. That's just backwards. If that was how real dialogue worked, my girlfriend and I would never argue about anything. You should choose what to say based on what you want to say, not the desired result, and people will react how they react.

That's a little odd. What you point out as disliking about DA2's system seems to be the exact opposite of why many others (that I've noticed posting) dislike about it. They usually complain about the fact that you *don't* know what will happen when you choose a dialogue option, whereas in DAO, you could. More so, anyway. The dialogue options were still sometimes interpretted differently to how they appeared in text.

[Anomaly-]

ReallyRue wrote...
That's a little odd. What you point out as disliking about DA2's system seems to be the exact opposite of why many others (that I've noticed posting) dislike about it. They usually complain about the fact that you *don't* know what will happen when you choose a dialogue option, whereas in DAO, you could. More so, anyway. The dialogue options were still sometimes interpretted differently to how they appeared in text.

It seems like the opposite, but it's really a separate issue. I agree with those people. I don't want to pick something to say, then have my character say something I really didn't intend, especially in regards to cheesy romance one-liners that make me cringe and actually reload the game to start over. I should know what the words leaving my mouth will actually be. However, I shouldn't know the effect those words will have before I speak them. DA2 got it backwards, surprising you with the words, but not with the result. Maybe some people can read minds or walk around with crystal balls, but typically, that isn't how real conversation works.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 10 octobre 2011 - 11:48 .

[txgoldrush]

Bioware wasn't the only RPG company limiting their conversations to three options...Planescape writer Avellone did the SAME THING for Alpha Protocol, which ended up not even paraphrasing.

In fact Thorton and Hawke are very similiar, both have a diplomatic/professional tone, a sarcastic/charming/suave tone, and an aggressive tone.

While AP sucked as a game because of the atrocious combat and unbalanced gameplay (as well as being one of Avelones weakest narratives due to most of its characters), the dialogue was AP's STRONGEST asset and helped the game be somewhat worth it...$2.

Even Avelone understands not every RPG has to be the same and not every RPG has to have non voiced dialogue in a list.

Really, Hawke's diploamtic and aggressive tones were really well done, its sarcastic that is responisble for the most akward and worst lines in the game (but sometimes its the best, like talking to Bethany in Legacy).

[txgoldrush]

Scenes like this simply are just NOT possible under the DAO, Jade Empire, KOTOR system.

[eroeru]

Bumping the thread because of the on-going "easier to RP DA:O" thread, which lead me to the idea of this poll...

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Versago wrote...

It works in ME and it works in DA.

The same here.

[eroeru]

What exactly are the good points of this wheel-mechanic, again? Cause as of now I'm quite lost.

[Aaleel]

I just hate paraphrasing, a lot of times what came out Hawke's mouth had me sitting there saying WTF was that. If they're going to keep that system they may as well have no words at all, nothing but mood icons to chose from. That way there is no shock, you've accepted that you're choosing the tone and nothing else.

The "sarcastic/witty" Hawke provided some of the biggest WTF moments as far as what came out.

[BubbleDncr]

My two main complaints with it:

1) It messes up the flow of conversations when you chose to "investigate," because in order to move to conversation forward, you have to answer to the very first thing that was said to you.
2) There are times when I just really want Hawke to say the paraphrased line. Example: At one point, the aggressive option to Carver is just "Shut Up." Which would have been perfect to say to him. But instead, Hawke says something else that is wordy and doesn't even remotely sound like "shut up."

Modifié par BubbleDncr, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[cephasjames]

[quote]Lunar Savage wrote...

Hate the ME dialog wheel. IMO, it's one of the biggest mistakes made by Bioware when it comes to approaching dialog. And about 10 steps backwards from what they had.

]http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rpgs-642x305.jpg[/quote] If they could figure out a way to better paraphrase I think it wouldn't be quit so bad. But repeating verbatim what I just got done reaing is not a good idea to me.

[Reaverwind]

Wulfram wrote...

The wheel format seems utterly pointless, but I don't think it really hurts.

The format isn't the problem. How the choices were implemented are. Choices were labeled diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive, when they should have been labeled good, jerk, and evil. Half the time it seemed Bioware made up arbitrary green/purple/red choices for the sake of having them there, even when they were a poor fit. I also didn't appreciate how certain political stances seemed to be tied to certain personalities. Paraphrasing was downright awful, and dialogue sometimes flowed so badly that I couldn't shake the feeling characters were talking AT each other intead of WITH each other. I hope never to see this personality system in a game again.

[eroeru]

Again, does anybody have a clue why this wheel was copied from Mass Effect in the first place? It really doesn't seem such a good idea - I can't see any advantages to it (only disadvatages).