384 réponses à ce sujet

[ademska]

Anomaly- wrote...

You know the words you're saying. If they're your words, you would expect to know them, right?

Of course you can predict how people will react, but in DA2, you know. You're never wrong. That, to me, is ridiculous.

no.

you do not know how people will react to your dialogue in da2; you know the intent with which hawke will convey it.

purplehawke is the best example. when you pick his dialogue, you know his next words will be with the intent to be charming or sarcastic. sometimes characters laugh in response, sometimes they're appalled, sometimes they stare at him like he's grown another head, ignore his weirdness, and move on.

you can moderately predict who will react which way through context clues - those being the paraphrase itself, the kind of person hawke is speaking to, and the appropriateness of jokes/charm in the given situation. but you can't empirically with 100% proven accuracy determine who will react what way, because the dialogue is about intent, not reaction.

you may feel like it's reaction, however, because you judged the situation at hand and determined that picking X option would most likely yield X response, and most (but not all) of the time, your prediction is accurate.

the solution that would make you happier (without alienating people who dont want to be unpleasantly surprised) is if more characters were less predicatable in their actions.

for instance, to fit your example, pretend there's a character who is unhinged. when you start a conversation with him, he will eventually, no matter what, freak out and turn into an enemy. now, hawke picks a diplomatic option, and it happens to set him off instead of continue the dialogue tree as normal. so, you skip whatever would have normally come between you and him turning crazy, and just jump straight into crazy town.

this approach only works if the fight was inevitable. the problem with your main argument is that things like "fight indicator dialogue" or "flirt indicator dialogue" exist so that players can have greater control over hawke and not make him do things they did not intend.

...like, for instance, getting caught in an inescapable ninjamance dialogue with leliana...

edit: to wit, you can flirt with both aveline and tallis to no real success. every other character is receptive to hawke's advances because they are attracted to hawke. it's most obvious with anders and isabela, who can preempt hawke's flirting with their own, but merrill and fenris both have lines that suggest they're interested in him as well.

the flirt indicator, in the wrong hands, could be a 'magic seduce button'. however, it only works on 4 out of 6 people, all of whom liked the guy to begin with.

accidentally actually flirting when your intent is not to flirt is not something that happens in the real world, because the real world doesn't have set romance path dialogues. because the game changes when you initiate romances, players want to be wary of them, and that coupled with the fact that the flirt indicator doesnt even work on everyone makes it a perfectly reasonable game mechanic.

honestly, the most realistic handling of misinterpreted remarks is anders flirting unprompted after hawke's diplo line, and yet a lot of people hate that, so what can bioware possibly do?

Modifié par ademska, 17 octobre 2011 - 01:01 .

[Darth Garrus]

It´s a fun game to play. But it has lots of problems.

First and more important: the bizarre overlook at the story of the game. This was not the way Bioware did their games. If they couldn´t appeal to the "I just play the most amazing graphics-driven-games", they certainly did for those who looked for great stories and characters. DA2 had me wandering for hours until I had a hint about what was it all about. And frankly, half of the game is played just as a hack and solve minor quests game. A bunch of small situations, a get money and items, and hack and slash game. No greater cause, no real conflict, no "meat" in this game.

There are some great improvements in terms of gameplay. The combat and character evolution system are much better now. For every class. Mages are much better now. And is fun to play any class. The items system is also much better.

Again, the problem about the game is that it feels like a big test for the changes. Why sell something like this as a whole new game if it feels like a "test tube"?

Writing was never the DA series strongest point. It was never coherent or exciting, but now it seems just a like a bunch of small quests put together. And in my humble opinion, writing is the main reason to buy a game like this. When that fails, the game is not good enough. 

Modifié par Darth Suetam, 17 octobre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Anomaly-]

ademska wrote...
you may feel like it's reaction, however, because you judged the situation at hand and determined that picking X option would most likely yield X response, and most (but not all) of the time, your prediction is accurate.

the solution that would make you happier (without alienating people who dont want to be unpleasantly surprised) is if more characters were less predicatable in their actions.

That would do a lot, yes. Although I think the issue with romances is a little different.

edit: to wit, you can flirt with both aveline and tallis to no real success. every other character is receptive to hawke's advances because they are attracted to hawke.

I think the fact that you can't seduce Aveline or Tallis is less to do with the flexibility of the mechanic, and much more to do with how linear those characters are.

Now here's my problem with your second point. It's just really ridiculous at times. Case in point: I really didn't like Isabella much. Frankly, I was a total dick to her. Then somewhere down the line I clicked the heart icon, expecting to be thoroughly told off. Next thing I know, I'm in bed with her. I think I may understand now why people complain about clicking that icon and being surprised by what happens. The problem isn't that it isn't indicated clearly enough, but that it's far too simplistic. That was pretty jarring.

I don't know many mature, self-respecting women who will jump straight into bed with a guy after he's done nothing but treat her like **** and then makes an obnoxious advance, regardless of how attractive they initially found him. I think most insecure teenagers even know better. I also don't know many women who will remain attracted to a guy who communicates in nothing but sarcasm and badly attempted "charm".

The mechanic is just so simplistic, and everything is black or white. Either you pretty much can't go wrong with seducing someone, or it's impossible to do so no matter how hard you try in the case of the linear characters. No one really reacts to how your personality develops. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the linear characters, and the fact that some people just aren't a very good match. But you can do nothing to seduce those characters regardless of how your personality develops, while the other characters basically just stand around waiting for you to click the heart icon. Aveline and Tallis were able to find other people they were attracted to, why not the others? Especially when Kirkwall is such a "bustling city".

All I really ask for is a system that requires and rewards at least some thought.

honestly, the most realistic handling of misinterpreted remarks is anders flirting unprompted after hawke's diplo line, and yet a lot of people hate that, so what can bioware possibly do?

Well that I still don't really understand. To be honest, I don't remember ever actually encountering that, so I can't really say why it bothers them.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:49 .

[Anomaly-]

Darth Suetam wrote...
There are some great improvements in terms of gameplay. The combat and character evolution system are much better now. For every class. Mages are much better now. And is fun to play any class. The items system is also much better.

The one thing I did appreciate was the upgrade system for spells/talents. I felt it could have been utilized better, but I appreciate the idea of being able to further specialize and customize the skills you want to focus on.

Besides that, I thought the rest of character development and items were way too shallow. You're railroaded into the same 1/2 attributes, and there is very little logic, variety, or motivation to explore for items. Not to mention you can't outfit your companions anymore.

[ademska]

Anomaly- wrote...

I think the fact that you can't seduce Aveline or Tallis is less to do with the flexibility of the mechanic, and much more to do with how linear those characters are.

functionally, under the hood, you're correct, but that doesn't change the emotional impact. you can still kiss either of them, but ultimately your flirtations go without fulfillment. a lot of people pursued aveline into act 2 the same way one does with any of the standard four and were appropriately disappointed when they couldn't be in a relationship with her. that's not a problem with her mechanic; it's a realistic reaction.

Now here's my problem with your second point. It's just really ridiculous at times. Case in point: I really didn't like Isabella much. Frankly, I was a total dick to her. Then somewhere down the line I clicked the heart icon, expecting to be thoroughly told off. Next thing I know, I'm in bed with her. I think I may understand now why people complain about clicking that icon and being surprised by what happens. The problem isn't that it isn't indicated clearly enough, but that it's far too simplistic. That was pretty jarring.

I don't know many mature, self-respecting women who will jump straight into bed with a guy after he's done nothing but treat her like **** and then makes an obnoxious advance, regardless of how attractive they initially found him. I think most insecure teenagers even know better. I also don't know many women who will remain attracted to a guy who communicates in nothing but sarcasm and badly attempted "charm".

ah, but see, that's why it's a rivalry bar and not a f*ck-you bar like it was in origins. the point is not that they dislike you, it's that your actions are contrary to their opinions, and in most cases it sets them down a path of self-change.

it's not a perfect system, because certain characters like isabela and anders do still gain rivalry from being jerks to them, and unlike anders who is always crazily in love with hawke, isabela has little reason to be so receptive to jerkishness, but: gaining rivalry with her still has the end result not of her disliking you, but of her actually changing her ways. the only real problem is that rivalry can't always be separated from jerkishness.

most important about the rival mechanic is that it actually changes the dynamic of the relationship. fenris' first rival encounter involves him slamming hawke into a wall. anders says he's not sure whether he wants to kiss or kill hawke. some of the dialogue remains the same, because every romance is supposed to end in real love, but the rivalry romances definitely reflect that the characters are at odds with hawke.

to that end, rivalmances don't bother me. maybe if they hadn't handled each romance carefully and on a case-by-case basis the mechanic itself would be weird, but in implementation it makes perfect sense, even if it's not actually perfect.

The mechanic is just so simplistic, and everything is black or white. Either you pretty much can't go wrong with seducing someone, or it's impossible to do so no matter how hard you try in the case of the linear characters. No one really reacts to how your personality develops. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the linear characters, and the fact that some people just aren't a very good match. But you can do nothing to seduce those characters regardless of how your personality develops, while the other characters basically just stand around waiting for you to click the heart icon. Aveline and Tallis were able to find other people they were attracted to, why not the others? Especially when Kirkwall is such a "bustling city".

All I really ask for is a system that requires and rewards at least some thought.

we've already addressed the reacting to your personality in the rivalmances, so two points:

as to the 'finding other people', most of them do. isabela and fenris hook up if you romance neither. in the dlcs, carver and merrill begin to hint at a romance if merrill isn't pursued. sebastian and bethany also flirt significantly. really, the only character who doesn't move on is anders, and that's a huge part of his character. given the time actually spent on romance mechanics, that's a lot of extraneous characterization for such a rushed game, and it gives them some depth outside of hawke.

i think i would be more understanding of that particular complaint if the game didn't span such a long time period and the characters weren't who they are. isabela explicitly has sex with other people while waiting for you to click that heart option, and merrill and fenris are way too caught up in their own stuff to court anyone else. if you don't romance them, they do move on.


now, what we can definitely agree on is the simplistic flirt options. i love having an indicator, because i like knowing that i'm clicking on something that does or does not instigate romance of any kind, but i would definitely be on-board with making the flirts themselves more complex.

i mean, think of it, if we had a complex mechanic it could inform the characterization so much. fenris has serious attachment and slave issues, so while it wouldn't take much to get him into bed, trying to get him to come back in act 3 could have been so much deeper and more satisfying. you'd navigate through a laborious process of comfort and romance, of avoiding certain topics and forcing certain others. anders, on the other hand, is desperately in love with hawke, and taking virtually any dialogue path would still lead to completed romance.

i think the best method would be some kind of mix between origins and da2, where the indicators are still there, but the path to get there varies from character to character.

[Anomaly-]

ademska wrote...
functionally, under the hood, you're correct, but that doesn't change the emotional impact. you can still kiss either of them, but ultimately your flirtations go without fulfillment. a lot of people pursued aveline into act 2 the same way one does with any of the standard four and were appropriately disappointed when they couldn't be in a relationship with her. that's not a problem with her mechanic; it's a realistic reaction.

But it is a problem with the mechanic. True, on the first playthrough when you don't know any of this stuff, it may actually seem like it makes sense. However, when you go back and try different things, or look under the hood, you realize that your choices really didn't matter. Again, that goes back to the pretty much all-encompassing flaw of DA2. It's the same thing with quests. The first time I lost a certain party member due to a certain choice, I was disappointed in the outcome, and genuinely wanted to change it. So I went back and made a different choice, but in the end I found out that what I did really didn't matter, and that made the choice far less interesting or impactful.

Likewise with the romances. Unfortunately, I disliked the rest of the game too much to motivate myself to do multiple playthroughs with different choices. So instead, I looked under the hood. I made the same disappointing discoveries. "Oh, nevermind, there was nothing I could do to seduce Aveline" or "Nevermind, it was nearly impossible to fail at seducing Isabella/Merrill" were pretty much my reactions. As with many other areas of the game, the problem is that you only have the illusion of choices, and the crux of that problem really is the mechanic itself.

it's not a perfect system, because certain characters like isabela and anders do still gain rivalry from being jerks to them, and unlike anders who is always crazily in love with hawke, isabela has little reason to be so receptive to jerkishness, but: gaining rivalry with her still has the end result not of her disliking you, but of her actually changing her ways. the only real problem is that rivalry can't always be separated from jerkishness.

That's a problem, indeed. I find it ridiculous that I can be a flat out **** to someone, and their reaction is to change their ways to better please me. I don't find romancing doormats particularly interesting or rewarding, it just makes me feel like a sociopath.

to that end, rivalmances don't bother me. maybe if they hadn't handled each romance carefully and on a case-by-case basis the mechanic itself would be weird, but in implementation it makes perfect sense, even if it's not actually perfect.

How does my example with Isabella make perfect sense? Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting idea to have different ways a relationship can develop, but I think it could have been implemented much better.

as to the 'finding other people', most of them do. isabela and fenris hook up if you romance neither. in the dlcs, carver and merrill begin to hint at a romance if merrill isn't pursued. sebastian and bethany also flirt significantly. really, the only character who doesn't move on is anders, and that's a huge part of his character. given the time actually spent on romance mechanics, that's a lot of extraneous characterization for such a rushed game, and it gives them some depth outside of hawke.

I never experienced the Isabela and fenris thing. Mind you, I didn't make it all the way through that playthrough. DLCs are irrelevant since I didn't buy any and I'm talking about the main game.

isabela explicitly has sex with other people while waiting for you to click that heart option, and merrill and fenris are way too caught up in their own stuff to court anyone else. if you don't romance them, they do move on.

Well if Isabella is having sex with other people that means she must be attracted to them, and surely at least one of them would be less of an **** to her than I was. Again, I never experienced the Fenris thing, nor any of the other stuff since it's DLC. I'm not even sure how that would work. Can't you go through the DLC content at pretty much anytime? So if you did it early on, those romances would exist during the DLC, then no more mention for the rest of the main game?

now, what we can definitely agree on is the simplistic flirt options. i love having an indicator, because i like knowing that i'm clicking on something that does or does not instigate romance of any kind, but i would definitely be on-board with making the flirts themselves more complex.

Yes, I think that would be a vast improvement, though I'm still iffy about having an indicator at all. Having people start thinking you like them just because you're nice to them and they want to believe it, then having to deal with the awkwardness of setting them straight is a common occurence in life.

[MorrigansLove]

Dragon Age 2 was mediocre because it was made by the current Bioware. Give Dragon Age 3 to Obsidian! NOW!

[Foolsfolly]

@ademska:

edit: to wit, you can flirt with both aveline and tallis to no real success. every other character is receptive to hawke's advances because they are attracted to hawke.

Sebastian's the same way for most characters. To be successful in flirting with him you have to be female and you can't have flirted ever with anyone else. Otherwise he isn't into it.

Dragon Age 2 was mediocre because it was made by the current Bioware. Give Dragon Age 3 to Obsidian! NOW!

More bugs, just as rushed as DA2, and weak characters and companions? Also weak romances (if there's a romance at all. Obsidian doesn't like romancing NPCs)?

Nah, you're thinking only in gameplay content. They're heavy on skills and especially non-combat skills. And they like reactions to the player's actions. That's stuff I'd rather see BioWare looking to improve their weaknesses instead of giving the franchise to a group that'd make a decent playing game (once the 8th patch was out) with a small story and shallow characters.

And I say that as a fan of Obsidian. They're capable of far better games than they usually rush out. But they're work for hire guys who can only play with other people's toys for a set amount of time. Whereas BioWare can develop their own toys.

But I'd especially like to see BioWare place player reactions higher on their priority list like Obsidian does.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 19 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .

[KilrB]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dragon Age 2 was mediocre because it was made by the current Bioware. Give Dragon Age 3 to Obsidian! NOW!

BTDT ... KOTOR II  <_<

No thanks.

[AmstradHero]

spiritofretribution wrote...
DA2 unfortunally tried to built a compact storyline by taking a lot of side-quests and dividing them into 3 Acts, without connection between the acts... I guess it was not only the auto-attack that was lost in the mastering process...

Here you have a point. The lack of concrete connectivity through the acts harmed the cohesiveness of the game as a whole. The individual storytelling within the segments was fine, it's just they didn't mesh together to make a single unit.

spiritofretribution wrote...
the animations were to over-the-top to be reallistic and in the same time to realistic to appease the FF group. imo DA2 should have animations where, for example, an archer jumps 12 feet high, stays 10 seconds in the climax of his jump and pumps an enemy with 500 arrow in the meantime, or maybe a rogue that zips around the battlefield in 100 feet jumps with a speed that he is just a blur. That would be AWESOME.

Personal preference issue here. I understand why some people don't like DA2's animations, but personally I have no problem with them. To me the situation you describe would not suit DA2's setting at all - we're not in a high-fantasy or Dynasty Warriors setting here. I felt DA2 pushed a little too far towards the ridiculous side at points, but the responsiveness of the combat meant I was happy to overlook it.

spiritofretribution wrote...
Now guess how long a game lives that mixes the graphic quality of Tetris with the gameplay of CoD? Right, stillbirth (well, actually the DA:O machine artificially kept it alive for a week). I wished DA2 had used the Frostbite 2 Engine or the CryEngine.

Sigh. I wish people would stop assuming "graphics make an awesome game" or "the engine is what makes a game look awesome". To be honest, a lot of the problems aren't with the quality of the graphics (though there are some textures that are hideously low res), but the weak area design. Kirkwall doesn't look drab because of bad graphics, it looks drab because it's not fleshed out artistically.

spiritofretribution wrote...
Cinematics:
If you make a game based only on lots of pre-rendered cinematics it will sell well (look at Final Fantasy or check "interactive movie" on wikipedia).

If you make a game concentrating solely on a good story/gameplay it will sell well too (e.g. Deus Ex: HR).

If you make a game with mediocre cinematics without having a good story or gameplay to pull it out it will be, well, mediocre (e.g. DA 2).

Couldn't disagree more. I hated pretty much every single cinematic in DE:HR because Adam Jensen acted like a complete moron about things that were blatantly obvious based on things he'd been told and read in emails/pocket secretaries. DEHR had great stealth gameplay.  Its writing was so hideously predictable that I'd predicted "the big twist" within the first five minutes of playing the game, and there was not a single "reveal" that I hadn't guessed hours earlier.

spiritofretribution wrote...
Set character without any means to customize, e.g. "The Witcher".
A lot of customizations on the PC (race, physical appeareance, gender), e.g. "The Elder Scrolls".

DA2 was a mix of both, it was mediocre in both ways, it had a set character with some customizations available, imo Bioware should had made it like "The Witcher 2" and leave any customization out, your Hawke should be male and have a predefined appeareance. (EDIT: little joke, just to see if someone would believe that I could believe such a thing)

Bollocks, bollocks, bollocks. See: Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, KotOR 1 & 2, Jade Empire...  Sorry, I have never bought into this "it's not Origins and it's not The Witcher therefore it sucks" argument. Also, what do you really get out of modifying your race in The Elder Scrolls/BG/NWN?  Hrm, some different skill bonuses and different appearance. Big whoop. (Except Argonians who get to breathe underwater)

spiritofretribution wrote...
A toolset can be a great thing for a game, Warcraft 3 is still played only due to custom maps (e.g. DotA), but then again Warcraft 3 was (and still is) an AAA title, a toolset on a mediocre game won't make it any better, so kudos for BioWare for not releasing a toolset, it would just be wasted ressources.

Huh? Not releasing a toolset is a reason DAO was mediocre? 

These are personal reasons why you felt DA2 was mediocre; they are not generally applicable reasons that describe DA2's key weaknesses. In many cases they're broad generalisations, and apart from the cohesiveness of the overall story (or lack thereof) they come down to personal preference. DA2 did some things better than DAO, thought it certainly did some things worse. You're entitled to your opinion of why you felt DA2 was bad, but I couldn't really consider these to be solid criticisms that could be used to refine the game for the production of DLC or DA3 for the gaming audience at large.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 20 octobre 2011 - 12:41 .

[Lord_Valandil]

You know, the lack of a proper special edition was a sign that something mediocre was coming, in my opinion.
I mean, just look at the shiny CE the Mass Effect series always get, and the lame SE of DA2...the soundtrack was kind of good, but that's it.
They just threw in some rushed DLC and called it a day.

Here's one hoping to recover the faith in BW with DA3.

[Brockololly]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

You know, the lack of a proper special edition was a sign that something mediocre was coming, in my opinion.
I mean, just look at the shiny CE the Mass Effect series always get, and the lame SE of DA2...the soundtrack was kind of good, but that's it.
They just threw in some rushed DLC and called it a day.

Here's one hoping to recover the faith in BW with DA3.

Its a sign that they were prioritizing simply kicking the game out the door ASAP over anything else. Its my understanding that those Collector's editions are pretty easy money for the developers/publishers since they can mark them up quite a bit and just stick some physical stuff in there and make a nice chunk of money off of them. Yet they couldn't even do that for DA2- they just stuck some DLC in and changed the case cover.

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dragon Age 2 was mediocre because it was made by the current Bioware. Give Dragon Age 3 to Obsidian! NOW!

If that happens (And it won't), I'm not buying it. KOTOR2 and NW2 were awful games IMO.

If you despise Bioware, stop buying their games. Like an adult.

Really, it's like telling Versace time and time again that they cannot design clothes because you don't like the pattern or the color.

[Gunderic]

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Gileadan wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
So DA2 without mods is simplified then?

DA2 scrapped all this for a simpler dialogue system where your character's attributes and skills no longer mattered, and an icon told you whether you were being nice, snarky, mean or flirty. I'd call that simplified alright.

and skill dots allowing me to "persuade" characters into 180% personality flips. But that's just me.

... that's how RPG's always worked...

The ENTIRE Might and Magic series begs to differ. But true, these classics aren't "true" RPGs, I suppose. :innocent:

Pen & Paper RPG's beg to differ. Conversation skills were ALWAYS a part of roleplaying games.

Right. All the Might and Magic games aren't RPGs then. Uh Huh. Sure. And I have done P&Ps as well as LARPs without conversation skills. Never mind that I like reactive dialogue more (As in DAII, yes) than illogical outcomes based on points. We will obviously never agree, so let's just say: We both love RPGs.

Uh, no. I haven't said that. I don't even know what you mean by 'I like reactive dialogue'.

And of course you can 'do' P&P game sessions without using a set of skills. Whether those skills exist or not is a different matter.

Modifié par Gunderic, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:24 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

The only real problem of DA2 is balantly lack of content.
If it had the content comparable with DA:O, I think most issues wouldn't be issues anymore.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 23 octobre 2011 - 01:59 .

[Mr.House]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

You know, the lack of a proper special edition was a sign that something mediocre was coming, in my opinion.
I mean, just look at the shiny CE the Mass Effect series always get, and the lame SE of DA2...the soundtrack was kind of good, but that's it.
They just threw in some rushed DLC and called it a day.

Here's one hoping to recover the faith in BW with DA3.

ME2 got a shiny CE and that game was a massive disapointment.

[Atakuma]

Mr.House wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

You know, the lack of a proper special edition was a sign that something mediocre was coming, in my opinion.
I mean, just look at the shiny CE the Mass Effect series always get, and the lame SE of DA2...the soundtrack was kind of good, but that's it.
They just threw in some rushed DLC and called it a day.

Here's one hoping to recover the faith in BW with DA3.

ME2 got a shiny CE and that game was a massive disapointment.

ME2 was polished and critically praised, DA2 was neither.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Mediocre is a relative term, and I think calling DA2 "mediocre" relative to other BioWare games (and specifically relative to Origins) is an understatement.

I loved Origins, I wouldn't even say I really even "liked" DA2. About 4 or 5 hours in I was so bored by the story I began to skip every bit of dialog. I loved tweaking my squadmates in Origins and messing around with their armor and stuff... in DA2 I remember seeing one of those loading screens and on the bottom of the screen it said something like "In DA2 your squadmates decide what armor they will wear but.." and I almost shat myself. I couldn't imagine why they'd possibly remove such a fantastic part of the franchise. The environments were endlessly and sloppily rehashed time and time again. "Oh look, it's the same dungeon I've been in a dozen times already. Ooop, wait, not it isn't, this one has a giant concrete slab blocking this passage. Great."

I loved Origins... even more than the first two ME's (it's damn close though, I loved them as well,) but DA2 was boring enough to put me off of the franchise completely. It felt sloppy, completely rushed, and wholly uninspired. I'll pass on DA3, if it's ever made.

Bring on ME3. So far that series has not disappointed (it's done the opposite actually,) can't wait to play the 3rd one.

[Lord_Valandil]

Brockololly wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

You know, the lack of a proper special edition was a sign that something mediocre was coming, in my opinion.
I mean, just look at the shiny CE the Mass Effect series always get, and the lame SE of DA2...the soundtrack was kind of good, but that's it.
They just threw in some rushed DLC and called it a day.

Here's one hoping to recover the faith in BW with DA3.

Its a sign that they were prioritizing simply kicking the game out the door ASAP over anything else. Its my understanding that those Collector's editions are pretty easy money for the developers/publishers since they can mark them up quite a bit and just stick some physical stuff in there and make a nice chunk of money off of them. Yet they couldn't even do that for DA2- they just stuck some DLC in and changed the case cover.

That's exactly my point, indeed.

[Wozearly]

ademska wrote...

honestly, the most realistic handling of misinterpreted remarks is anders flirting unprompted after hawke's diplo line, and yet a lot of people hate that, so what can bioware possibly do?

From memory, Hawke has the opportunity to flirt with Anders during that same overall conversation sequence (please correct if wrong, my recollection of this isn't perfect).

So someone intentionally choosing to avoid the flirtation approach whilst not taking the "I'm going to be a jerk to you" option might well have done it for rational reasons. As to the consequences, Tim Buckley caricatured this exact situation as part of his DA2 comic strips.

I agree that its a good example of a misinterpreted remark being implemented, but because of the three option dialogue wheel, it does tend to push you into "Say yes" "Say yes without realising you're saying yes" or "Be a jerk to Anders". Which can annoy people who wanted a "Say no politely" option, thought that's what they were doing, and then get given exactly the same situation again a little later, but with an even more insistent Anders.

Yes, Anders *wants* you to be in love with him no matter who your Hawke is, he's quite tough to shake off, and in a way that's actually good characterisation. But the dialogue wheel in this instance limits your options in that situation, and in future ones, to address the issue when it arises.

That's what I think wound people up - well, that and Anders is a same-sex romance character, so any unintentional flirting might be disliked strongly by people who aren't comfortable with men flirting with their male character.

Modifié par Wozearly, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:22 .

[LPPrince]

Curious if more people consider game "good but not as good as DAO" or just flat out bad.

[ad1dash0lm3s]

LPPrince wrote...

Curious if more people consider game "good but not as good as DAO" or just flat out bad.

I feel that most people think it is decent. Just not as good as DA:O. I think though that they only feel this way because of they are two different types of gameplay and so they searched for all the other flaws and went over the top about the problems. (Even though there was a good amount of flaws)

[Sylvianus]

Well, I didn't change my mind about the main game. Not bad. I can " at least "agree with someone that says it is a fair game with many flaws, but I find it myself mediocre for many personal reasons.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Can I consider it As good as Origins?