384 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Knight]

Sinuphro wrote...
i can see u like arguing...fine. However....PPL hate senseless arguments. my arguments were valid and have facts backing them up...YOURS DO NOT.

So (s)he happens to enjoy DA2 and you say she doesn't have a valid argument?

Riiiiiiight.

[billy the squid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Just to remind everyone, DA2 had a different lead designer from DA:O.

That doesn't mean much of anything.

Mike Laidlaw is not some supreme overlord ruling from on high and commanding his vassals/serfs to carry out his will, lest he break out the sword, whip, tar, feathers, vuvuzelas, and all other manner of torture devices both painful and silly.

Really? I think he would be disappointed, he could use a new title if he was overlord. "Mike Laidlaw, Layer of Laws"

[DarthCaine]

The only reason why DA2 was mediocre is because BiowEAre wanted to make a quick buck cashing in on DAO's success.

I don't believe Mike Laidlaw wanted to make the game this bad. Don't let marketing BS fool you, almost none of the changes because they wanted to make a better game. They were all done so the game could be finished in the shortest ammount of time with the smallest budget possible.

[Wozearly]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

All I got out of that post was "STOP HAVING FUN"...

I don't think that's what he was getting at - don't get me wrong, saying that 90% of gaming websites, or fans, etc. pointed out that DA2 is 'crap' is a massive exaggeration. Some said it was amazing, some said it was crap, many said something along the lines of "Its great, but just don't think it'll be like Origins" or "Its good, just not as great as Origins". But there was a clear division amongst professional reviewers just as there was amongst the fans, and many professional reviews did point out that DA2 didn't have a lot in common with Origins.

The fans were split exactly the same way, we're just less diplomatic and more prone to exaggeration (on both sides of the divide).

But as to Sinuphro's argument - was DA2 as successful as its predecessor? No. Not in terms of sales (as far as we know) or in terms of fan reaction. That's not to say its a bad game - even though I'm a DA2 detractor, I still agree that its not a bad game. Its just not, IMO, as good as Origins.

The only reason it matters how many people prefer one to the other is in the context of the bitter struggle on these forums where each side of the fan base wants to convince the Bioware devs to make DA3 more like Origins/DA2 (delete as applicable). Which is understandable.

Of course, that this inevitably descends into a series of subjective personal beliefs squaring off against a string of made-up facts just makes it more entertaining, if you take a step back and watch.

[Dubya75]

OP, those are YOUR opinions (see what I did there? with the yellow?)- make sure to remember that. And there is a Constructive Criticism thread specially for posts like yours.

Modifié par Dubya75, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Wozearly]

DarthCaine wrote...

The only reason why DA2 was mediocre is because BiowEAre wanted to make a quick buck cashing in on DAO's success.

I don't believe Mike Laidlaw wanted to make the game this bad. Don't let marketing BS fool you, almost none of the changes because they wanted to make a better game. They were all done so the game could be finished in the shortest ammount of time with the smallest budget possible.

Completely disagree.

DA2's development timescale may well have been influenced by factors at EA, but it was almost certainly impacted by factors in their own studio what with the forthcoming launch of ToR and ME3 and Bioware/Mythic's recent release of Wrath of Heroes. Unless your marketing team are asleep at the wheel, you don't schedule two major product launches that will essentially compete with each other for people's time and money.

If DA2 hadn't been released before all of those, it would have had to take the slot after them all...which means we wouldn't even have seen it yet, and the only real difference would have been a bit more polish, fewer bugs and maybe a bit more tweaking.

I don't know to what extent EA tries to co-ordinate its subsidiaries. Intuitively, I'm sure there's an element of mutual discussion around release dates for major titles that might have an obviously overlapping audience, but that's no different from (for example) trying not to schedule your release of a brand new MMO right about the same time that World of Warcraft is doing an expansion.

If the aim was to achieve a release with minimum budget, we wouldn't have seen things like the major graphics redesign or reworking of combat mechanics. EA are a tempting scapegoat, but ultimately Mike and the DA team as a whole believed that DA2 made the right changes for the right reasons.

In some cases, I agree with them. The execution wasn't always there, and I do feel they 'Mass Effected' Dragon Age a bit more than was desirable, but there wasn't anything wrong with the principle. Of course there are other decisions which look like they completely missed the point of what was (or wasn't) broken in the first place...but 'tis only my opinion.

Modifié par Wozearly, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:39 .

[LPPrince]

I had to stop reading once I realized how broad, sweeping, and exaggerated those opinionated statements were.

EDIT- Side note. I do NOT like DA2. Half the reason I'm getting Skyrim is to judge whether The Elder Scrolls is a suitable replacement for the DA games if DA3 is anything like DA2.

Modifié par LPPrince, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:10 .

[TEWR]

billy the squid wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Just to remind everyone, DA2 had a different lead designer from DA:O.

That doesn't mean much of anything.

Mike Laidlaw is not some supreme overlord ruling from on high and commanding his vassals/serfs to carry out his will, lest he break out the sword, whip, tar, feathers, vuvuzelas, and all other manner of torture devices both painful and silly.

Really? I think he would be disappointed, he could use a new title if he was overlord. "Mike Laidlaw, Layer of Laws"

He goes by that title currently to pick up the chicks. They dig that sort of thing .

Not to mention it's a badass title, despite him not actually being an overlord person.

[Cobra's_back]

I enjoyed DAO because the Warden was allowed to make choices that could determine the outcome. For example: save the circle, get rid of the werewolf curse, save Redcliffe as just a few examples. The end result is fully player driven.
In DA3, the player is denied choices that would resolve anything, meaning, no matter what the player does, the outcome is going to involve a negative. This is the BIG killer for me. I want more choices not less. Don't want to often but meaningful choices is HOT.
By the time I was done, I didn’t care for Hawke or any of Hawke’s companions. The other glaring issues were holes in the story, too many crazy people and some stuff just didn’t make sense.
Holes one example: Cullen does know I’m a mage but I’m firing fireballs all around him.
Stuff that didn’t make sense: Templars want Meredith out of her office so they kidnapped a sibling. Why didn’t they try to show everyone she was mental and not they were mental?
I'm sure there are many players that loved the game. There are some that would have liked real choices.

[Joy Divison]

Wozearly wrote...
...But there was a clear division amongst professional reviewers just as there was amongst the fans, and many professional reviews did point out that DA2 didn't have a lot in common with Origins.

The fans were split exactly the same way, we're just less diplomatic and more prone to exaggeration (on both sides of the divide).

Exactly?  The available evidence suggests otherwise...

[Il Divo]

LPPrince wrote...

I had to stop reading once I realized how broad, sweeping, and exaggerated those opinionated statements were.

EDIT- Side note. I do NOT like DA2. Half the reason I'm getting Skyrim is to judge whether The Elder Scrolls is a suitable replacement for the DA games if DA3 is anything like DA2.

Define "replacement". The similarities between Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls really does start and end with Swords n Sorcery RPG. They're two completely different styles/foci of gaming.

[LPPrince]

Il Divo wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I had to stop reading once I realized how broad, sweeping, and exaggerated those opinionated statements were.

EDIT- Side note. I do NOT like DA2. Half the reason I'm getting Skyrim is to judge whether The Elder Scrolls is a suitable replacement for the DA games if DA3 is anything like DA2.

Define "replacement". The similarities between Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls really does start and end with Swords n Sorcery RPG. They're two completely different styles/foci of gaming.

Oi, I know. Bioware's style of RPG tends to be heavily story based and the worlds aren't nearly as large and encompassing as Bethesda's, while Bethesda's style of RPG is more open world and not nearly as heavily concentrated as Bioware's.

Its a massive change, but the thing is, I want fantasy. Good fantasy. DAO gave me that, I thoroughly enjoyed it, played it multiple times, and I can call it a grand success.

I can't say the same about DA2. While I had to stop reading the OP(as mentioned earlier) I agree with the thread title in that DA2 was mediocre. I don't want to go back to it, and in my mind, it was far from being a success.

Because of this, I plan to pick up The Witcher 2 and Skyrim on my 360. Both are vastly different from DA, but hey, its fantasy, and if DA3 is anything like DA2, I may have to move to greener pastures.

[naledgeborn]

Filament wrote...

You don't need to wait for Skyrim to find out, Morrowind is still great.

QFT. Best RPG I ever played next to the original KotOR. 

[LPPrince]

Filament wrote...

You don't need to wait for Skyrim to find out, Morrowind is still great.

I bet it is, but I'm not going back to Daggerfall, Morrowind, or even Oblivion to find out.

Skyrim will be my first TES game, and while I know I'm horrendous for missing out on games like Daggerfall and Morrowind, I think its better I actually START somewhere rather than worry about WHAT I'm starting with.

I've done my homework, a little research every now and again, on TES, the races, history, stories, etc etc.

I'm pretty excited. I remember doing this for DAO...and DA2. I honest to God hope Skyrim blows me away like DAO did.

DA2...well, I think I made that point evident already.

[Sylvianus]

LPPrince wrote...
Because of this, I plan to pick up The Witcher 2 and Skyrim on my 360.

Me too. In the order :
Battlefield 3, Call of Duty 3, Skyrim, the Witcher 2, Mass effect.

A lot of money in one year ... I promise I won't buy anything else...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:03 .

[naledgeborn]

It's a good thing the games are self contained then. But Morrowind has one hell of a story despite being sandbox. For a game where NPC interaction is relegated to A LOT of reading it's just ****ing Epic man.

[Il Divo]

LPPrince wrote...

Oi, I know. Bioware's style of RPG tends to be heavily story based and the worlds aren't nearly as large and encompassing as Bethesda's, while Bethesda's style of RPG is more open world and not nearly as heavily concentrated as Bioware's.

Its a massive change, but the thing is, I want fantasy. Good fantasy. DAO gave me that, I thoroughly enjoyed it, played it multiple times, and I can call it a grand success.

I can't say the same about DA2. While I had to stop reading the OP(as mentioned earlier) I agree with the thread title in that DA2 was mediocre. I don't want to go back to it, and in my mind, it was far from being a success.

Because of this, I plan to pick up The Witcher 2 and Skyrim on my 360. Both are vastly different from DA, but hey, its fantasy, and if DA3 is anything like DA2, I may have to move to greener pastures.

Ah, if you're only looking for a good fantasy RPG, then you should be fine with TES. I would recommend Morrowind and (to a much lesser extent) Oblivion as they're very enjoyable forms of free-form exploration, especially Morrowind. I'd probably rank it, along KotOR/Planescape, in my top three RPGs.

[LPPrince]

Sylvianus wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Because of this, I plan to pick up The Witcher 2 and Skyrim on my 360.

Me too. In the order :
Battlefield 3, Call of Duty 3, Skyrim, the Witcher 2, Mass effect THREE, THREE, THREE, GOTS TO BE SPECIFICALS.

A lot of money in one year ... I promise I won't buy anything else...

Well, I'm also getting all those games, along with a few others. But I'm pointing out TW2 and Skyrim because the whole reason behind getting those is to offset my bad taste for DA2.

[Il Divo]

naledgeborn wrote...

It's a good thing the games are self contained then. But Morrowind has one hell of a story despite being sandbox. For a game where NPC interaction is relegated to A LOT of reading it's just ****ing Epic man.

This. The extended conversation with Vivec remains one of my favorite gaming moments to this day.

[LPPrince]

Il Divo wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Oi, I know. Bioware's style of RPG tends to be heavily story based and the worlds aren't nearly as large and encompassing as Bethesda's, while Bethesda's style of RPG is more open world and not nearly as heavily concentrated as Bioware's.

Its a massive change, but the thing is, I want fantasy. Good fantasy. DAO gave me that, I thoroughly enjoyed it, played it multiple times, and I can call it a grand success.

I can't say the same about DA2. While I had to stop reading the OP(as mentioned earlier) I agree with the thread title in that DA2 was mediocre. I don't want to go back to it, and in my mind, it was far from being a success.

Because of this, I plan to pick up The Witcher 2 and Skyrim on my 360. Both are vastly different from DA, but hey, its fantasy, and if DA3 is anything like DA2, I may have to move to greener pastures.

Ah, if you're only looking for a good fantasy RPG, then you should be fine with TES. I would recommend Morrowind and (to a much lesser extent) Oblivion as they're very enjoyable forms of free-form exploration, especially Morrowind. I'd probably rank it, along KotOR/Planescape, in my top three RPGs.

I'm not the type to pick up older games that have long since passed. I get new games as they come, and I'm not worried about starting with Skyrim since as I'm aware of it, each Elder Scrolls game is standalone.

Makes me happy to know that. Still, I've got to figure out all the little bits and pieces.

Oh man, how I love doing research on fun games.

DA2, you don't count.

[naledgeborn]

Il Divo wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

It's a good thing the games are self contained then. But Morrowind has one hell of a story despite being sandbox. For a game where NPC interaction is relegated to A LOT of reading it's just ****ing Epic man.

This. The extended conversation with Vivec remains one of my favorite gaming moments to this day.

Dude, fighting fauna, bandits, undead, and sorcers from one side of the country to another at level 9. Having the PC's dreams interpreted by a renegade soothsayer. Unknowingly unraveling destiny just by playing the damn game. Nostalgia like a mutha right now. Do they have this on the 360 marketplace? 

[csfteeeer]

naledgeborn wrote...

Filament wrote...

You don't need to wait for Skyrim to find out, Morrowind is still great.

QFT. Best RPG I ever played

THIS

[Il Divo]

naledgeborn wrote...

Dude, fighting fauna, bandits, undead, and sorcers from one side of the country to another at level 9. Having the PC's dreams interpreted by a renegade soothsayer. Unknowingly unraveling destiny just by playing the damn game. Nostalgia like a mutha right now. Do they have this on the 360 marketplace? 

Don't think so. I know they have KotOR/Jade Empire available, but besides being backwards compatible there is no way to buy Morrowind on Live.