157 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

You are talking about production in communism? Communism is about improving life, not to produce more.

Attempting to improve life with only negative motivation for the prduction of those things which improve life is why communism fails.

That's not about communism. ANY political system can be achieved in different ways, some of which fail in the long run.

It is specifically about Communism, and a function of the combined political and economic system necessary to produce its ideals.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

You are talking about production in communism? Communism is about improving life, not to produce more.

Attempting to improve life with only negative motivation for the prduction of those things which improve life is why communism fails.

That's not about communism. ANY political system can be achieved in different ways, some of which fail in the long run.

It is specifically about Communism, and a function of the combined political and economic system necessary to produce its ideals.

No pressure is needed to persuade people to live by ANY ideals if they are willing. The fact that people didn't want to do it, doesn't mean that communism fails. Even a society based on anarchy can function well if people that are part of that society are true anarchists.

[SandTrout]

@D.Kain,

You're talking about abstract hypotheticals now that reflect largely impossible conditions.

I'm talking about the real world. Communism fails in the real world for the reasons I have stated.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

@D.Kain,

You're talking about abstract hypotheticals now that reflect largely impossible conditions.

I'm talking about the real world. Communism fails in the real world for the reasons I have stated.

No, communism fails because there are not enough real communists in the real world, as there are not enough anarchists. Trying to make people live a certain way by force is what usually fails soon or late, it's not about communism.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@D.Kain,

You're talking about abstract hypotheticals now that reflect largely impossible conditions.

I'm talking about the real world. Communism fails in the real world for the reasons I have stated.

No, communism fails because there are not enough real communists in the real world, as there are not enough anarchists. Trying to make people live a certain way by force is what usually fails soon or late, it's not about communism.

Thank you for agreeing that communism fails in the real world.

Not all systems of government are equal. Some work better than others, some don't work at all without destroying or enslaving all who simply do not wish to take part.

Modifié par SandTrout, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:48 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Marx was against free lunches.

That's why strikes are not permitted under communism.

I'm amuzed you call that idiocy.

Marxism opperates under the principal that while some can produce more than others, none are entitled to more than others. This inherently means that you will be taking from some in order to give to others, regardless of actual ability, and thus discouraging actual ability. Therefor, negative reinforcements must be used in order to achieve any meaningful production, as opposed to the possitive reinforcement of voluntary actions resulting in meaningful rewards.

Communism is slavery to the state in a non-metaphorical sense.

Marxism operates under the principle that all things made in the world, good and bad, are collective product of human society (including the generations long gone and forgotten), rather than a simple sum of miserly toils of separate individuals. This inherently means that individuals need to cooperate with each other to achieve optimal results, rather than compete. What competition promotes best of all is the ability to take from others what they got and get away with it. Therefore, under capitalism, negative reinforcements must be used in order to achieve any social order, as opposed to the positive reinforcement of participating along with fellow-human beings in the construction of a better social order.

Therefore, capitalism is institutionalized robbery in non-metaphorical sense.

Ironically, capitalist competition leads to elimination all the "unfit" enterprises from the market, so that in the end there can be only one. In Marxism it's called "concentration of capital". You could witness it when EA bought BioWare... So either way, there won't be competition. When that one last (the most "fit") enterprise acquires all existing assets in the world, then there will be ideal fascism - the logical outcome of capitalism. Unless Chairman TIM and his ideas of Galaxism with Human characteristics save us all, of course!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:50 .

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...
 Thank you for agreeing that communism fails in the real world.

Not all systems of government are equal. Some work better than others, some don't work at all without destroying or enslaving all who simply do not wish to take part.

Yes, I agree with you that communism fails, just not for the reason that you mentioned. 

Again the best system that works is the system that has the most supporters. But no system should be taken by destroying or enslaving those that don't want to follow it, nothing good ever comes from that, and communism is a good example, because it lacked supporters.

[Stanley Woo]

No real-life political discussion, please. Thank you.

End of line.