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[sam726]

 I just finished reading the three novels and it struck me that Gillian Jack is the new Jack Gillian. So I was thinking who would have the greater biotic potential (Not a "who would win in a fight scenario")? Because Jack destroyed three big robots in her recruitment, while Gillian lifted a huge forklift thing up and smashed some dudes with it. I also think that Gillian will probably be mentioned in ME3 alongside Jack (which would be pretty cool IMO).

Modifié par sam726, 09 octobre 2011 - 08:00 .

[StefanBW]

Gillian could do a singularity at a very young age, though she was drugged. The most advanced biotic attack according to the books, so I'd say Gillian's potential is higher. I'm looking forward to the forth book, seeing how her time with the quarians changed her.

[sam726]

Yeah. Me too.

But it sort of bugged me that in ME2 Jack had really weak powers compared to an Adept Shepard when Jack was supposed to be a super biotic herself.

[StefanBW]

sam726 wrote...

But it sort of bugged me that in ME2 Jack had really weak powers compared to an Adept Shepard when Jack was supposed to be a super biotic herself.

No argument there.

I remembered that Gillian was also with Hendel on the Migrant Fleet, with a biotic teacher she could have developed her skills even further. While Jack was kind of on her own at that age, mostly learning destructive techniques herself would be my guess. Giving Gillian another plus.

Modifié par stefanbw, 08 octobre 2011 - 11:40 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I like Jack better.

But that's a bit biased because I don't like spin-off material in general.

That aside, I still like Jack better. Gillian is a pretty "meh" character.

Who would win in a fight? Probably Jack. But that's because Jack's much older and is less afraid to just let loose and kill everyone.

[Sketchy77]

Jack and Gillian....?

Is there a hill in this story?

[sam726]

i was wondering if someone would notice

I also noticed that even people that are supposed to be awesome biotics in the novels can only use their talents a couple times before being completely drained. Whereas in the games an adept can continually cast a biotic power (after a small recharge).

[D.Kain]

sam726 wrote...

i was wondering if someone would notice

I also noticed that even people that are supposed to be awesome biotics in the novels can only use their talents a couple times before being completely drained. Whereas in the games an adept can continually cast a biotic power (after a small recharge).

Well, yes it's for gameplay reasons.. and I hate it. 

I would play a lore biotic over the gameplay biotic any day. 

Only 5 powers each mission? No problem! Into the wall flies the Atlas mech along with a Geth Colosus, no shields or armor are going to save them.

[JeffZero]

Nitpicking, but Gillian technically predates Jack in terms of canon works. /nerdcap

[D.Kain]

Btw does the OP suggest that these two are the strongest 2 biotics in ME? Or is it just a question about these 2?

[arne1234]

Gillian apears in mass effect ascension released on july 29,2008.
Jack apeared in ME2 released on january 26, 2010

Your right JeffZero

Jack is obviously based on gillian and supposed to be a adult non autistic version of her. It also seems like Jack will be ripping of Ashley in ME3 I hope she's not a perm squaddy

[arne1234]

In short Jack is Gillian spin off.
and both are very strong biotics who where indirectly trainend by the illusive man. Gillian trough the legal circuit, Jack trough the illegal circuit. One could argue that TIM knew more abouth Gillian then Jack because the cerberus opperatives for Gillian where very loyal and the Jack scientist went rogue.

Also the fact that TIM at the beginning of the book holds Gillean in his own hands and delivers her with her foster parent personally might mean their is some emotional connection between the 2.

[sam726]

D.Kain wrote...

Btw does the OP suggest that these two are the strongest 2 biotics in ME? Or is it just a question about these 2?

just about these 2

[D.Kain]

sam726 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Btw does the OP suggest that these two are the strongest 2 biotics in ME? Or is it just a question about these 2?

just about these 2

No idea at all. 

[Anacronian Stryx]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I like Jack better.

But that's a bit biased because I don't like spin-off material in general.

That aside, I still like Jack better. Gillian is a pretty "meh" character.

Who would win in a fight? Probably Jack. But that's because Jack's much older and is less afraid to just let loose and kill everyone.

yeah but jacks powers are fueled by cut scenes..that's a huge disadvantage if there is no cut scene in the near vicinity.. just saying'

[D.Kain]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...


yeah but jacks powers are fueled by cut scenes..that's a huge disadvantage if there is no cut scene in the near vicinity.. just saying'

Because gameplay has a huge disconect with lore. They ONLY way to judge about ones biotic strength is by cut scenes. 

[Hillbillyshep]

Well, Jack had SHOCKWAWE. And them cut-scene-powers! Yay!
And Gillian´s a teenager... Duh!?

[Golden Owl]

I am hoping Shep meets Gillian in ME3...but I don't want her on his team, simply for the fact that she is an Autistic child (well teen) and shouldn't be in the centre of a war zone, where Shep will be.

[Flashflame58]

I see what you did there...

[Mims]

Jack and Gillian. Theme naming.

Rule of fictional tropes means they will be sisters.

[sam726]

Golden Owl wrote...

I am hoping Shep meets Gillian in ME3...but I don't want her on his team, simply for the fact that she is an Autistic child (well teen) and shouldn't be in the centre of a war zone, where Shep will be.

i think that would be cool. They could have Jack helping Gillian out or something like that 

[m00nsh1ne]

Mims wrote...

Jack and Gillian. Theme naming.

Rule of fictional tropes means they will be sisters.

My thoughts exactly

[Darkstar Aurora]

I do not think would be accurate to describe Jack as being a “new Gillian” (or vice versa) simply because they are both human biotics and have a background involving Cerberus. That is the equivalent of claiming that Morinth is the “new Liara” simply because she happens to be a powerful asari biotic from Thessia, who also has strong disagreements with the philosophical views of her matriarch mother...

Human biotic prodigies did not originate with the Ascension novel, and they were fairly prevalent enemies on both general and Cerberus-related side missions in ME1. Likewise the notion of Cerberus (or other morally ambiguous military think-tank) trying to create a biotic human super soldier did not start with the Ascension novel either, it originated in the Codex entries (Biotics: Training) in the first Mass Effect game. Lastly, the notion of industrial accidents being used to create a harvest of element zero in-utero exposures was hinted at by Kaidan as being potentially part of intentional or larger conspiracy for producing biotics. Jack is an extrapolation of those lore threads, and her story is far more in line with the dark-tones that fits the Mass Effect 2 narrative and themes IMO.

I personally feel Jack is a far more compelling character, and thus while I do like Gillian I would neither trade Jack for her nor rank Gillian above the likes of Samara or Liara, let alone Subject Zero.

If she does appear I hope it is in conjunction with a (Deception) novel spin off mission, possibly involving the Ascension program, Kahlee Sanders, Cerberus, and perhaps Jack as well. In that vein Jack could have been recruited into the Ascension program for ethical scientific study (perhaps as part of an Alliance pardon deal for her crimes, if you chose the paragon resolution of her loyalty mission). Alternatively she could be on the trail of Cerberus scientists to kill (if you resolved her loyalty with the renegade option) or hoping to assist/rescue Gillian or other biotics from Cerberus. In the event that she is dead on a import playthrough the mission could still retain the same objectives and novel character involvement, just minus a bonus squad member.

However, I do not think it is likely that Gillian will survive the next novel (Deception), specifically given that I cannot imagine The Illusive Man being killed before Mass Effect 3, and Gillian appears to be hell bent on enacting vengeance on him. Thus one would assume her mission fails...

In terms of how Jack compares in biotic skill to Gillian, or an Adept...

The Ascension novel refers to Singularity as “one of the most powerful biotic abilities”, therefore there are other biotic talents out there which are equally as demanding, or moreso, of the biotic specialists wielding them. At the time Ascension was written there was only the original game to serve as a pool to draw from, and since Singularity had the highest skill rank prerequisites, and was only (initially) available to Adepts and Asari Scientists, it was the most “exclusive” power at the time. To illustrate a contrast, the ability to generate eight to twelve successive, concussive newton-force biotic blasts (Shockwave) certainly requires more talent and concentration than a simple Throw or Warp. Likewise the ability to generate and effortlessly concentrate on sustaining multiple spatial distortion fields (Warp Ammo) within the ammunition slot of multiple weapons, while simultaneously replenishing your barrier defense in cover AND unleashing a telekinetic attack (Pull) every five seconds would also seem to demand a fair deal of advanced biotic skill as well.

In Mass Effect 2, Shockwave IS a more "advanced" ability than Singularity. An Adept needs intermediate training in both Singularity and then in Pull before they can even attempt Shockwave. In contrast, Jack has Shockwave immediately at the outset. Also, as per her conversation on upgrades, Jack uses an L5x biotic implant. That is the same grade and type of bio amp that enables an Adept to create a Singularity in the first place, and the x classification denotes Jack as the equivalent of an Adept, even if she has the option evolve her talents to become a Primal “Vanguard” as well. Therefore, Jack has both the biotic potential and wetware prerequisites to be just as capable of creating a singularity, and I do not think Gillian’s drug and autism/hyper-focus induced cafeteria “Carrie moment” is more demonstrative than a adrenaline-burst cryo cinematic scene.

In terms of how Jack stacks up in gameplay versus an Adept Commander Shepard, the “discrepancies” in her comparative power are intrinsic to how the game is balanced between the player and ALL the other squad members. Primarily in teammates having:
* longer power recharge time / lower weapon damage
* 4 fewer power options / 21 fewer skill points
* Non-access to signature class powers, or access with exponentially longer recharge times (Tali, Liara, Legion)

With those gameplay factors set aside, there isn’t much of a lore or game-based power discrepancy. Besides, only one power can be used at any given time, and squad members are meant to compliment your skill set. Shockwave works wonders with Singularity, and Pull does wonders for your Warp. With a new game and early recruitment Jack will have access to and evolve these (higher prerequisite) talents earlier than an Adept, and the Adept will have Singularity and Warp at level 1.

In terms of gameplay comparisons to other biotic team members, Jack still lives up to her reputation as the “most powerful human biotic”, and manages to edge out your Asari teammates as well:

Shockwave is the only biotic squad member power that can affect multiple enemies, environmental objects, and bypass cover--all at the same time, AND without requiring it to be fully evolved to an “area” version.

The Subject Zero class talent, which represents her inherent potential self-taught experimental techniques, grants her the same degree of biotic proficiency bonuses as possessed by a certain centuries-old Asari Justicar whose abilities are said to “rival those of an Asari Matriarch”.

Warp Ammo, when evolved to its Squad version, provides an increase to the team’s DPS against barriers that can exceed the DPS value (damage divided by recharge time) of any other biotic team member's direct-damage powers. This damage-per-second boost is exponentially more impactful when team-fire is concentrated on an single elite or boss enemy such as Harbinger, Praetorians, Asari Eclipse captains, etc. However, the morst important point being that Jack maintains these warp fields through passive concentration, without placing her other biotic abilities into cooldown, which brings me to the final point..

Pull Field is easily the most powerful biotic skill available to any squad member, and Jack’s effectiveness with Pull is superior to that of any other squad member for the following reasons:
1) Subject Zero and Smart Amplifier reduce her Pull recharge to an average of 5 seconds
2) Multicore Implants give her Pull Field +20% more damage to enemy resistances, and increase the initial grab and collision damage when health is exposed.
3) Warp Ammo transforms Pull Field from a crowd-control/vulnerability-debuff power into a biotic finishing-move, without need of cooldown time to be spent on Throw, Warp, or Shockwave as a follow up. With Squad Warp Ammo both team member’s AI will concentrate on the pulled target making it a fire-and-forget power. Meanwhile with Heavy Warp Ammo the trajectory will carry the enemies into her melee range, giving her up to a x4 multiplier to base weapon damage.
4) Time Efficiency. Because her Warp fields are weaponized into an ammo power she does not have to alternate her power cooldown time between resistance damage powers (Warp/Reave) and crowd control powers (Throw, Pull, Shockwave, Slam etc) the way other biotic team members do. As enemy defenses are stripped by weapons fire Jack can generate Pull Fields ad-infinitum for the entire combat encounter, making her the most time-efficient crowd-control specialist and executioner of finishing moves.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 10 octobre 2011 - 02:53 .

[sam726]

i see you put a lot of thought into this... but i see what you mean

[albafica]

jack OWN..didnt let her even once uring insanity,she is the best crowd control and finisher in the game nuff said