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Random thoughts (warning: long, boring)


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#1
Rifneno

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Apologies for the length.  I'd obsessed with the game for a while, but hadn't been posting here, so I've got a bit of a backlog of crazy.


Did I miss it, or is there not an "Official Theories On How The Reapers Will Be Defeated" thread? I'd assume it'd be one of the more talked about topics. My initial idea was this: We don't know how mass relays work really. Or maybe I just forgot that codex. Too many shots to the head, you understand. Anyway, what if we could manipulate the destination of one? Point that bad boy into a star and come up some zangy scheme to trick the Reapers into using it. Biggest problem being that it seems you need a working relay on both ends, and barring new information, technology being able to survive a star for any length of time is way beyond even the Reapers.

Instead, my current theory hinges that unused dialogue someone found. The Human Reaper (should that be capitalized? Where's a grammar err-- Cerberus agent when you need one?) was emitting brainwave patterns similar to a bunch of humans. Another thing we don't know the workings of is indoctrination. I'm sure you can figure where I'm going with this. Naturally indoctrination will be studied in an attempt to find a defense. Perhaps in doing so, they manage to reproduce the effect and the Reapers themselves turn out to be vulnerable to it. This would also give us another paragon/renegade choice at the end. Do we force the indoctrinated Reapers to destroy themselves (either through suicide or making them turn on each other) or do we enslave them as they did to the Protheans and whatever race they made the Keepers from? Sadly, I'm sure that would invoke millions of "lulz, Independence Day ripoff" complaints and people posting pictures of Jeff Goldbloom's "That's right, we can use their own signal against them" speech. But that's going to happen no matter what I suppose.

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that the knowledge Reapers are part organic will be their downfall. That's critical information that's unlikely any other civilization they attacked had. Organic and synthetic life have different vulnerabilities and there's attacks that wouldn't have been tried on the Reapers if past civilizations made the same natural assumption that they're completely synthetic.

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TIM's real name is Jack Harper? ... I wonder if that's a reference to Two and a Half Men.

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Proteus was an ancient greek god that could shapeshift. I noticed the reference in the name "Protheans" right off the bat, but I never really understood it. Perhaps it's a reference to their eventual fate as the Collectors. Or maybe it's just a reference to how Protheans looked. The statues on Ilos and old art of Proteus both have the same "Aww, what an adorable little Cthulu larva..." look to them.

But here's a crazy theory. Crazy being the key word. The Eletania Prothean device and the caveman vision... what if it's hinting that Protheans, for lack of a better word, designed us? At the very least it's extremely suspicious that this artifact is found on a planet inhabited by creatures strikingly similar to the ones we're believed to have evolved from.

No seriously, think about that for a minute. The same planet that we find some mysterious ancient artifact from aliens who were messing with our ancesors, we find a very close variant of an earlier ancestor. Something stinks here.

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Is it confirmed that Cerberus is always the enemy in ME3? Here's a thought: What if this is the consequence of letting them have the Collector base? It can work either way too.

Paragons were right to destroy it scenario: TIM, obvious enamored with his newest toy, visits it in person. Like the rest of the investigation team, whoops, he gets indoctrinated.

Renegades were right to give it to Cerberus scenario: Cerberus scientists find some data at the base that is crucial in understanding indoctrination. Because of this, TIM or other high level Cerberus management are able to avoid being indoctrinated and will remain an ally when the Reapers come knocking.

If Cerberus is always an enemy in ME3, I still don't think it's fair to judge the writing quality without all the facts. Just because we couldn't think of a good enough reason for it to happen does not mean that ME's writers couldn't. There's a reason they're writing these stories: they're damned good at it. I don't care for shooters, and I almost always hate sci-fi stuff, yet this is my favorite series solely because of the writing. For example, everyone complaining that it'd make no sense for TIM to betray Shepard after investing so much in him and realizing he's such a great weapon against the Reapers. Well who says he did? The space ogre that Liara usurped was giving intel to the Reaper's Prothean slaves. He knew the thread count in TIM's suit and who he was bumping uglies with (that man gets more ass than anyone has a right to), why wouldn't he have some clue where he is? Or since they've got tens of millions of years of technological advancement on us, maybe they just usurped his communications and the real TIM is powerless to command his troops while the Reapers have an Edgar suit--err, TIM suit giving fake orders to them. Cue mission to help TIM get back control of his organization.

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Am I the only one who can never figure out where to headshot a krogan? I've gotta ask Mordin where their brain is... Are they like the Hunchback of Notre Dame and that thing is just to make them look uglier? Maybe it's under the plate. Hmm. For that matter, I can never figure out whether husks and Saren's skeleton are flagged as organic or synthetic. :(

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ATTN: Zaeed. I'm paragon, I didn't spend 50,000 platinum on that dermal bay for myself. Get to the med bay or you're not allowed back in the mess hall until further notice. You're making people sicker than Rupert's cooking.

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Current sentient spacefaring races: Asari, Drell, Elcor, Hanar, Humans, Salarians, Turians, Volus, Batarians, Krogan, Quarians, Vorcha. Geth, Rachni and Raloi, depending on your point of view. That's 12-15 races. Were Protheans really the only ones around last cycle?  If so, why?  If not, why are the others a secret?

#2
xI extremist Ix

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My personal belief is that the Protheans were a broad group of races. If you look at some of the prothean architecture that you find there are inconsistencies.

#3
d1sciple

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you should add crazy to the title, there is no way the Reapers can be beaten, end of, there is no way they can convincingly pull it off in my mind, i'm dreading ME3.

on another note some of that can be answered in the other media, Books/Comics etc. and also in the Codex.
like the Protheans were one race with a complex quad DNA strand. and...

everyone knows how the relays work, reverse engineering them has given the galaxy it's current level of technology. the Turians can even understand pieces of Nazara enough to be able to reverse engineer and then replicate it's weapons. replicating the relays or actually controlling them though is impossible.

TIM didn't want shep to help with the Reapers, he wanted a powerful human, one the Old Machines had already fought, to destroy their tools, the Collectors. he did this because he went the way of Saren way back when he saved some idiot from a Reaper device and became basically a functioning husk. if he was truly against the Reapers he wouldn't of teamed up with Saren to find and study the Thorian and the Rachni. his goal is to save humanity by becoming tools for the Collectors and he used shep to get rid of his competition.

#4
Rifneno

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d1sciple wrote...

you should add crazy to the title, there is no way the Reapers can be beaten, end of, there is no way they can convincingly pull it off in my mind, i'm dreading ME3.


I don't know why people complain about this.  When has epic fantasy/sci-fi been about realism and average scenarios?  When Tolkien was writing Lord of the Rings, did people complain about how it made no sense for a handful of midgets with an eating disorder to beat an ancient evil powerful enough to have "the complete eradication of mankind" realistically on its to-do list?

#5
d1sciple

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you've failed to take into account how LOTR isn't quite fiction but is a thinly veiled version of our world and more specifically, the War. no one expected a bunch of ponsy Brits to conquer the Huns either.

as for complaints it has nothing to do with realism but the fact they've spent 2 games building up these things as gods. in fact out of all the sci-fi folk lore i can think of the Reapers are at the top, the very top. in fact i'm gonna start a thread on that.

#6
Rifneno

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d1sciple wrote...

you've failed to take into account how LOTR isn't quite fiction but is a thinly veiled version of our world and more specifically, the War. no one expected a bunch of ponsy Brits to conquer the Huns either.

as for complaints it has nothing to do with realism but the fact they've spent 2 games building up these things as gods. in fact out of all the sci-fi folk lore i can think of the Reapers are at the top, the very top. in fact i'm gonna start a thread on that.


Ever hear of the law of averages?  If they start tens of thousands of genocide wars, there's a pretty good chance that sooner or later they're going to lose to the underdog.
Besides which, how many things had to go "juuuust right" for them to lose this time?

Shepard isn't Superman? Lulz genocide.
The Reapers didn't accidentally destroy records of Ilos? Lulz genocide.
Ilos didn't stay smart and hide rather than join their brethren in the fight? Lulz genocide.
Those scientists didn't sacrifice themselves to give the next species a chance? Lulz genocide.
Shepard didn't find the Eden Prime beacon, and break into Virmire and access Saren's, and find an asari prothrean expert, and get the cipher from an ancient omniweed? Lulz genocide.
Uber powerful fascists didn't spend billions and billions to bring Shepard back from the dead because only they realized the crazy truth, that one man who's awesome with a gun will be the key to saving all advanced organic life? Lulz genocide.
Same fascists didn't build a powerful AI, the same thing they're fighting, to assist him? Lulz genocide.
Who knows how many others we haven't seen in ME3? All the pieces had to fall into place perfectly for the Reapers to lose.

#7
CBGB

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d1sciple wrote...
you've failed to take into account how LOTR isn't quite fiction but is a thinly veiled version of our world and more specifically, the War. .


Describing War and Peace, Woody Allen said, "Tolstoy thoughtlessly neglected to include a boat race."

#8
d1sciple

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Rifneno wrote...

Shepard isn't Superman? Lulz genocide.
The Reapers didn't accidentally destroy records of Ilos? Lulz genocide.
Ilos didn't stay smart and hide rather than join their brethren in the fight? Lulz genocide.
Those scientists didn't sacrifice themselves to give the next species a chance? Lulz genocide.
Shepard didn't find the Eden Prime beacon, and break into Virmire and access Saren's, and find an asari prothrean expert, and get the cipher from an ancient omniweed? Lulz genocide.
Uber powerful fascists didn't spend billions and billions to bring Shepard back from the dead because only they realized the crazy truth, that one man who's awesome with a gun will be the key to saving all advanced organic life? Lulz genocide.
Same fascists didn't build a powerful AI, the same thing they're fighting, to assist him? Lulz genocide.
Who knows how many others we haven't seen in ME3? All the pieces had to fall into place perfectly for the Reapers to lose.


aha ha ha, your arguement is such a big deal. like any of that **** matters, except to maybe help facilitate the destruction of ONE Reaper, and like that has has an epic effect on the reality of a Reaper army.
keep up the good work!

#9
Rifneno

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d1sciple wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Shepard isn't Superman? Lulz genocide.
The Reapers didn't accidentally destroy records of Ilos? Lulz genocide.
Ilos didn't stay smart and hide rather than join their brethren in the fight? Lulz genocide.
Those scientists didn't sacrifice themselves to give the next species a chance? Lulz genocide.
Shepard didn't find the Eden Prime beacon, and break into Virmire and access Saren's, and find an asari prothrean expert, and get the cipher from an ancient omniweed? Lulz genocide.
Uber powerful fascists didn't spend billions and billions to bring Shepard back from the dead because only they realized the crazy truth, that one man who's awesome with a gun will be the key to saving all advanced organic life? Lulz genocide.
Same fascists didn't build a powerful AI, the same thing they're fighting, to assist him? Lulz genocide.
Who knows how many others we haven't seen in ME3? All the pieces had to fall into place perfectly for the Reapers to lose.


aha ha ha, your arguement is such a big deal. like any of that **** matters, except to maybe help facilitate the destruction of ONE Reaper, and like that has has an epic effect on the reality of a Reaper army.
keep up the good work!


Point: Missed by several light years.
Understanding fiction: Not even remotely.

Saw the same thing on DA board...  don't understand how so many of the fanbase of a particular company can have such a focus on the realism of the protaganist succeeding.  That's what fiction is based on.  The protaganist is always the underdog and usually by ridiculous differences in power compared to the antagonist.  You want realism?  Turn on the news.

#10
d1sciple

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my argument has nothing to do with realism or fiction, again you're creating an issue out of something assumed. they're flying around in space for ****s sake, how can anyone expect any type of realism after that? they've established the rules of the universe and everything fits quite well in said universe.
my point is that they've gone too far with the Reapers in relation to the universe they've created. it has nothing to do with the 'real' world or understanding fiction, it's all about the ME universe and how everything works inside that universe.

ME is a heroes journey and almost follows the classic established structure perfectly, except for one point-in a heroes journey we are always given the means for the hero to overcome at the beginning, usually at the same time we are introduced to the protagonist/antagonist/universe.

you brought up LOTR. well they weren't just a team of midgets were they? there was also an ancient wizard, a human king a dwarf, an elf etc. but one main point about LOTR that you failed to mention is the ring. they had the ring. so right at the beginning of the series we are given not only the only weapon that can destroy the antagonist, we are given the blueprint how do it and the means to do it.
SW is similar. at the very beginning we're given the history of the universe and the galactic empire and at the very same time we're given the means to destroy the antagonist in the form of a protagonist with the exact tools needed.

THAT is what's missing here.

#11
Lapis Lazuli

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^^^^
Honestly, I thought the same about the Borg in TNG. They went too far building up the Borg mystique and they made Picard, the greatest ship leader in the Federation with all the knowledge of the Federation and its strategems, a Borg. the Borg lost and I didn't really buy it. Bioware is clearly borrowing here.