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[a p o c 447]

Ok I get that in german it means "white capital" but was it really a good name to choose for the main hq of the supposed hero Grey Wardens?

What with that name being associated with the founder of the bavarian illuminati? It may have been unintentional but, for me anyways, it doesn't paint a good picture for the Grey Wardens...heh it's like calling it Hitler Fortress and the mental association with the name would instantly have me thinkin of all the wardens as ****'s...as weisshaup it makes me think they're wanting to do what Weisshaupt outlined back in the day...rule from the shadows and enslave and cull the peoples. To also have Templars in there and all the Sun symbolism with the Chantry is quite amusing to boot...meh...

I guess my question is, if anyone at Bioware knows...was the name intentional as a hint of darker plans/masters within the grey wardens or is it just a coincidence and that the fortress simply sits in a germanic area of Thedas? Heh but if that's the case shouldn't it have been called Grauhaupt?

[Randy1012]

Weisshaupt Fortress is located in the Anderfels, which is inspired by Germany much like Orlais is inspired by France and Ferelden by the British Isles. As you mentioned, the name might be a reference to a founder of the Illuminati, but remember that the Grey Wardens are a secret society much like the Illuminati, the Freemasons, or the Knights Templar. I think the association ends there.

[Fulgrim88]

...or is it just a coincidence and that the fortress simply sits in a germanic area of Thedas? Heh but if that's the case shouldn't it have been called Grauhaupt?

It is located in a germanic part of Thedas (Anderfels). However, "Weisshaupt" does not literally translate into "White Capital", so "Grauhaupt" wouldn't make any more sense.

(The full term for capitol, or more precisely "headquarter" would be Hauptquartier. "Haupt" alone has a completely different meaning, as does "head")

There where some discussions on the old forums about the name, with most people guessing that Weisshaupt could be the name of a especially high mountain (with Haupt=Head=peak being a metaphor for the snow on top).
I have absolutely no idea wether there was any Illuminati reference intended, though

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:08 .

[Gadarr]

a p o c 447 wrote...

Ok I get that in german it means "white capital" but was it really a good name to choose for the main hq of the supposed hero Grey Wardens?

Actually, it doesn't mean "white capital" but rather "white head", except that "haupt" is a more dignified or poetic version of the word, a proper translation of which doesn't come to my mind at the moment.

[Aathis]

It is unlikely to have been a coincidence. Perhaps the intention is to make the illuminati out as a 'good cause' obliged to use evil means. The Grey wardens after all are tainted willingly; and Duncan who comes across as such a 'nice' man, is actually pretty ruthless.



Also the founder of the Bavarian Illuminati was 'Weishaupt'...not Weisshaupt'...the s's.



Interesting trivia. I have just begun the game and will be keeping an eye out for this kind of thing.

[DoctorPringles]

It could also have been chosen because they're in the mountains, and mountaintops have "white heads". Double meanings are fun.

Besides, the Grey Wardens are not a holy order of knights. They'll do anything to stop a blight, just as the illuminati would have done anything to retain balance of power. Don't forget, in that same fortress many other "evil" things occurred, all directed by the hands of Grey Wardens.


EDIT: Just realised this was a res'd thread. Oh well, still interesting.

Modifié par DoctorPringles, 21 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .

[WarlordThor]

DoctorPringles wrote...

It could also have been chosen because they're in the mountains, and mountaintops have "white heads". Double meanings are fun.

Besides, the Grey Wardens are not a holy order of knights. They'll do anything to stop a blight, just as the illuminati would have done anything to retain balance of power. Don't forget, in that same fortress many other "evil" things occurred, all directed by the hands of Grey Wardens.


EDIT: Just realised this was a res'd thread. Oh well, still interesting.

Not to mention a spoilerific  thread.

[Monica21]

When Alistair is describing it, doesn't he mention something about white cliffs? I figured that was where the name came from, and not necessarily a description of the Wardens themselves.

[Trajan60]

With the way Weisshaupt Fortress is described as being built into a cliff I wonder if it will be as grand as Minas Tirith in LotR.

[DoctorPringles]

WarlordThor wrote...

DoctorPringles wrote...

It could also have been chosen because they're in the mountains, and mountaintops have "white heads". Double meanings are fun.

Besides, the Grey Wardens are not a holy order of knights. They'll do anything to stop a blight, just as the illuminati would have done anything to retain balance of power. Don't forget, in that same fortress many other "evil" things occurred, all directed by the hands of Grey Wardens.


EDIT: Just realised this was a res'd thread. Oh well, still interesting.

Not to mention a spoilerific  thread.

Eh? I see no spoilers.

[cmathews03]

Even as a native German, I didn't overthink the symbolism of the name. I, too, figured it was to capture the nature of the headquarters' location rather than possibly-relevant historical implications.

[WarlordThor]

DoctorPringles wrote...

Eh? I see no spoilers.

Being that Weisshaupt Fortress and information regarding it is part of the game lore and story, and not part of the general overall easily known plot, I fail to see how it is not considered spoilers.

[Trajan60]

WarlordThor wrote...

Being that Weisshaupt Fortress and information regarding it is part of the game lore and story, and not part of the general overall easily known plot, I fail to see how it is not considered spoilers.

You are a spoilers purist.

[Lakmoots]

Wow... good stuff.

*Real Purist Spoilers*





Remember what Riordan talked about when you asked about the Wardens and Weisshaupt specifically?
I was shocked - but also excited about future possibilities...

Basically, the Warden's at Weisshaupt are the de-facto rulers of the Anderfels, which have an awfully weak royal family.

In fact, Riordan said he avoided the fortress as did many Warderns, because it seemed that the Warden hierarchy rather liked to "pull the strings" of the country, and he felt it did the Wardens an injustice.

So, basically, *even* the Grey Wardens are a group that can go abit corrupt at the higher echelons.

Which kinda links back to the original metaphor of the Weishaupt controllers... interesting...

[Darth Obvious]

WarlordThor wrote...

Being that Weisshaupt Fortress and information regarding it is part of the game lore and story, and not part of the general overall easily known plot, I fail to see how it is not considered spoilers.

Yes, but they are super-anal about spoilers here. Mention something small and insignificant, be it a very minor quest or minor item or whatever, and they will usually bite your head off. It's hilarious.

[Houndiddy]

Weishaupt and the Illuminati have not really grabbed my interest as a Catholic Christian. However, the Weisshaupt business in the game was a bit much, coupled with the reference to Templars. These folks dabbled in the satanic, and I don't want to come anywhere near close to that in any roleplaying game I am in love with. It doesn't make sense for me to do so. I just deleted Dragon Age: Origins from my computer, with deep disappointment but with no regrets. So, Bioware, I decided to ignore all the sex stuff by having my character just obey the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments and fight evil darkspawn and dragons to his heart's content. But I do wish you could resist the temptation to get into real-world controversy and let us have our fantasy.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

One of the Chantry board quests, you have to get back a sextant from the alienage. Something called Free Sailor's sextant or something. But the Icon for it is a Freemason symbol. Very amusing. Another interesting bit is in the plot graveyard in Haven. One of the tombstones reads "building 7". Which the only thing I can see it referencing is World Trade Center 7, the third World Trade Center building to collapse on 9/11, and a favorite focus of 9/11 conspiracy theories.



Illuminati...Freemasons..9/11.....Bioware has been taken over by the New World order! Bwahahahahahahaha! They are out to get you! All your base r belong to them!

[Thor Rand Al]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

One of the Chantry board quests, you have to get back a sextant from the alienage. Something called Free Sailor's sextant or something. But the Icon for it is a Freemason symbol. Very amusing. Another interesting bit is in the plot graveyard in Haven. One of the tombstones reads "building 7". Which the only thing I can see it referencing is World Trade Center 7, the third World Trade Center building to collapse on 9/11, and a favorite focus of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Illuminati...Freemasons..9/11.....Bioware has been taken over by the New World order! Bwahahahahahahaha! They are out to get you! All your base r belong to them!

ROFL

[LadyDamodred]

Houndiddy wrote...

Weishaupt and the Illuminati have not really grabbed my interest as a Catholic Christian. However, the Weisshaupt business in the game was a bit much, coupled with the reference to Templars. These folks dabbled in the satanic, and I don't want to come anywhere near close to that in any roleplaying game I am in love with. It doesn't make sense for me to do so. I just deleted Dragon Age: Origins from my computer, with deep disappointment but with no regrets. So, Bioware, I decided to ignore all the sex stuff by having my character just obey the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments and fight evil darkspawn and dragons to his heart's content. But I do wish you could resist the temptation to get into real-world controversy and let us have our fantasy.

Wait, what?  You deleted the game because it contains darker themes, mirrors actual things that happen in real life and isn't all sunshine and light?  I'm not sure what you think fantasy is, but if writers were to ignore every real world controversy, there would no controversy at all.  The game at that point would be a side scroller with no story.  No art medium exists in a vacuum and some of the most moving things are so moving because of the darkness within them.

Not trying to offend or anything, but I just can't wrap my head around this.

[Lightice_av]

The Illuminati wasn't any more evil than any secret society of its date. It's quite amusing how a single name associated with them can provoke such strong reactions. Even more amusing that somebody actually takes the 18th century accusations of "satanic" connections seriously; I wonder if the poor guy realizes that he'd have to hate all sorts of people like Jews, if he takes those accusations at face value.

[Houndiddy]

Now, now, boys and girls. I did not delete the game because of dark themes. I like dark themes, and one of the things I liked about DA:O was the ability to make difficult choices, and being able to see the best side of companions by treating them with goodheartedness and respect.



I deleted the game, after having realized that I could handle the sex as I would hope I would in life, only because of the choice of Weisshaupt as the name of a Templar fortress, and the Illuminati as something I was going to have 'in my face'. It is debatable whether the Illuminati were admitted Satanists. Some say so. Besides, from the point of view of a believer, whose side are you on if one of your big goals is to crush all religion! If I believe in the existence of Satan and feel that I must stay out of his orbit at all costs, I am also a Jew-hater and a 9\\11 Truther? Come on.

[LadyDamodred]

Weisshaupt is not a templar fortress, it is a Grey Warden fortress. Big difference. And there is nothing about the Illuminati in your face. Weisshaupt is only referenced in the game. It might also be arrogant of me to say, but I think if you truly are troubled by something, then you owe it to yourself if no one else to learn about rather than ignore it. Ignoring something does not make it go away or make it less of a threat.



I think you might also be missing the point of the romancable characters. At least for me, it's about love, not sex. All those characters deal with coming to love your characters. Sex is part of it because it's part of life, but it's not the point of the romance options, imo.



Again, not trying to offend.

[AlainNagel]

That fortress must be pretty high up in the mountains. If Ferelden is in the southern hemisphere and Weisshaupt is in the north of it, the temperature on the plains will be very high in comparison.

[Big Mikey Mike]

a p o c 447 wrote...

What with that name being associated with the founder of the bavarian illuminati? It may have been unintentional but, for me anyways, it doesn't paint a good picture for the Grey Wardens...heh it's like calling it Hitler Fortress

Somebody takes their conspiracy theories too seriously.

[bobsmyuncle]

Houndiddy wrote...

Now, now, boys and girls. I did not delete the game because of dark themes. I like dark themes, and one of the things I liked about DA:O was the ability to make difficult choices, and being able to see the best side of companions by treating them with goodheartedness and respect.

I deleted the game, after having realized that I could handle the sex as I would hope I would in life, only because of the choice of Weisshaupt as the name of a Templar fortress, and the Illuminati as something I was going to have 'in my face'. It is debatable whether the Illuminati were admitted Satanists. Some say so. Besides, from the point of view of a believer, whose side are you on if one of your big goals is to crush all religion! If I believe in the existence of Satan and feel that I must stay out of his orbit at all costs, I am also a Jew-hater and a 9\\\\11 Truther? Come on.

Uh. The Illuminati? Did we play the same game?

FYI I'm a Christian, although not Catholic, and I really don't get what your problem with the game was. The Chantry is not the Catholic Church and the Templars are not the actual Knights Templar, although I'm sure both structures were drawn on for inspiration.

I get where you're coming from re: avoiding evil, but I think you're reading messages that just aren't in the game (ie Grey Warden affiliation with Illuminati).