497 réponses à ce sujet

[ademska]

Heather Cline wrote...

I read only part of it. I went back and read the apology and I'm still upset about it. Still doesn't make it right.

if you haven't read the second statement, it might be worth your time.

at the risk of sounding like i'm buckling, because bioware has a terrible reputation with trans* issues this clip notwithstanding, ms. kirby gives a pretty plausible explanation that largely explains away the cissexism and classism.

but, as she said and as so many people in this thread don't seem to grasp, authorial intent does not erase your pain. mistakes were made, and it still triggered the hell out of a lot of people and caused some serious pain.

[Collider]

I did notice that transgenderism is still considered a valid target for jokes and ridicule. So is homosexuality, but to a lesser extent. I don't think I've ever seen a mainstream game that's treated transgenderism as something that isn't a joke, gross, or intended to titillate in the some way. That's a damn shame.

[Zanallen]

Oh good. The OP updated the post to include both statements by Ms. Kirby. Honestly, at this point, I think this is a non-issue. There was no offense intended and the whole thing is the result of a mistake when putting together the scene.

[slimgrin]

Heather Cline wrote...

Mousestalker I read both from Mary Kirby.

As for slimgrim, screw you. I can be upset about this and even if someone apologizes doesn't mean I have to forgive them or forget about it happening. So don't tell me to 'man up'. I have a right to be upset and I will stay upset for as long as I want to.

And you're so indignant as to tell an author what she can or can't write.

[Collider]

I think while it's good to consider whether or not a portrayal is offensive, cliched, or stereotypical, writers shouldn't stop themselves from writing an LGBT character that is portrayed in a negative light (in some way or another) simply because it may not be politically correct.

Granted, trans jokes only give me a chuckle at best at this point and it would really be refreshing a non-joke or trivial transgendered character somewhere in a game.

[Durgon Ironfist]

Call me an insane greased Russian sailor, but the second the scene began I thought venture brothers. Bioware has dropped numerous references to cult hits in their games and Hawke's response reminded me of Brock Samson's. Perhaps you folks are taking this too seriously maybe? Now if you need me I'll be in my bunker cleaning my guns I smell a **** storm incoming...../hides

[Heather Cline]

slimgrin I never said that, never implied it. I stated I was upset by it and that I will stay upset for a while. Since you are not in my head and don't know me, go f*ck off and die.

ademska I did go back and read the apologies from Mary Kirby. I'm still upset though. Which I have a right to be even if it was a mistake on her part. Many of us are upset and probably will be for a while. It's how I am and I know at least one other is.

[ademska]

Heather Cline wrote...

ademska, I did go back and read the apologies from Mary Kirby. I'm still upset though. Which I have a right to be even if it was a mistake on her part. Many of us are upset and probably will be for a while. It's how I am and I know at least one other is.

i know, and i agree with you.

kirby did a lot to alleviate my personal issues with this dlc in particular, but it doesn't erase a) bioware's awful track record with trans* characters and  the fact that a whole hell of a lot of people, including you and me, were and will continue to be triggered and hurt by this scene.

listen up, people: no one can tell you when to quit being hurt or offended at something, nor can you dictate the emotions of anyone else.

Modifié par ademska, 10 octobre 2011 - 01:49 .

[Firky]

ademska wrote...

listen up, people: no one can tell you when to quit being hurt or offended at something, nor can you dictate the emotions of anyone else.

I think that's really important.

My personal philosophy is - you should never feel as if you have to "harden up" to exist in society, unless you are willing to concede that whatever is asking you to harden up is right and need not be changed.

I'm just a straight lady, and that video grab didn't offend me, though I did think it was a bit silly. If others, who have a better understanding of the issues are offended, then it's important and worth discussing.

Being upset by something is a sign to examine it and try to help change society for the better, not a need to harden up. (In my opinion.)

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ah, one of the self-righteous, bleeding-heart types who make a big deal out of non-issues telling others to f*ck off and die? It's so typical. You're offended? So what? Get over it, deal with it, etc. I feel no sympathy for anybody offended over some humor because they think they're part of a certain minority that needs to be protected from harsh words and treated special. I'm amazed the OP isn't dismissed as a troll, because this seems like a whole lot like trolling.

This "portray this minority the way I like or else" crap does no good for a title which, honestly, is a step back from the first game. Hawke reacted in a humorous and perfectly natural manner for an awkward situation. If your upset this isn't the reaction you wanted, what a shame.

[slimgrin]

ademska wrote...


kirby did a lot to alleviate my personal issues with this dlc in particular, but it doesn't erase a) bioware's awful track record with trans* characters and  the fact that a whole hell of a lot of people, including you and me, were and will continue to be triggered and hurt by this scene.

Are you kidding me? Since when are they obligated to cover social issues? And which social issues should they tackle? Those you deem necessary?

The self entitlement in this thread is overwhelming.  

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 octobre 2011 - 02:09 .

[Firky]

Well, to the OP, Mary Kirby and many others. There are some of us listening, and very glad you're courageous enough have the discussion.

OP, don't give up on yourself. Life beyond anxiety and depression is achievable and raising your voice up like this is being on the right track. (I might not know much about stuff transgendered people face, but being able to speak up about and address mental illness is something I care about a lot.)

Edit: (Just in case anyone thinks I'm calling being transgendered a mental illness, I'm not. - Well, except that it's entirely feasible that society's wrong reaction to it could contribute to mental illness in some people. - Just that I'm wishing the OP the best and I think it was courageous to put it, explicitly, in context.)

Modifié par Firky, 10 octobre 2011 - 02:25 .

[ademska]

slimgrin wrote...

Are you kidding me? Since when are they obligated to cover social issues? And which social issues should they tackle? Those you deem necessary?

The self entitlement in this thread is overwhelming. 

you're doing a really good job of putting words in people's mouths, slim. no one is obligated to do anything re: their art, but if that art offends someone, it is well within the offended party's natural and legal rights to speak up about it, and hope that the creators take it to heart and craft a less personally offensive product in the future. and, if sales dictate it's in their best interests to do this, then through both classic capitalism and growth as decent people, they probably will.

that is all we are doing here.

all i said in my post was that bioware has a bad record being terrible with trans* issues, and mary kirby's explanation of why the ball was dropped here only helped my concerns in the dlc itself, not with the whole series.

quit playing victim when you're not offended by anything going on here. no one's infringing on your right to do jack ****, though we are calling you out on your lack of reading comprehension.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

MsKehoe wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Do you think you could edit the OP to add Mary Kirby's explanation? I just found out about this and spent a couple minutes being bothered before I finally got through enough pages to learned what had really happened.

Sure! Just give me a second.

Excellent idea.

I'd suggest putting them in [ quote ] boxes to make them stand out though, as some people have an aversion for reading lots of text.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's keep the swearing out of the discussion, please. Thank you.

[Bhaal]

Even though Hawke's response line is carelessly writen; i don't think the scene was offensive at all. A highly placed official brings his trans partner to a meeting without facing bigotry and his partner doesn't even needs to hide her identity.
I can understand OP realy well and i believe people of BW aren't showing same care that they are showing when comes to bisexuals, for trans.

Modifié par Adakutay, 10 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Am i the only person that watched the video and ignored the fact that she was transgender?

Well then, guess i'll just leave the forums again always fun to come here and see the pointless things people complain about.

Stay classy bioware forums.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 10 octobre 2011 - 04:28 .

[coolide]

Some people are so uptight these days. I hope you guys don't watch TV. And do you need an option to make a transgender character? How would that really be any different than just a regular guy or girl character? Are you just looking for a guy character who talks with a girl's voice or vice versa?

[Foolsfolly]

Is there room for a "I don't remotely care" option to this discussion?

I'm looking over pages of this thread, Mary Kirby's explanation and apology, and I just don't care. Either accept that it was an accident or don't.

But I want to say, even though this wasn't supposed to be the punchline in this scene of a DLC you're not even supposed to have yet, anything can be a joke. No can tell you what can or can't be a joke.

Tolerance works both ways.

[Xilizhra]

Ah, one of the self-righteous, bleeding-heart types who make a big deal out of non-issues telling others to f*ck off and die? It's so typical. You're offended? So what? Get over it, deal with it, etc. I feel no sympathy for anybody offended over some humor because they think they're part of a certain minority that needs to be protected from harsh words and treated special. I'm amazed the OP isn't dismissed as a troll, because this seems like a whole lot like trolling.

Again, if this is just a game, I await your explanation for the rage regarding homosexual relationships...

Tolerance works both ways.

If you mean that transgendered people should tolerate cisgendered people, sure, though I've never known that to be a problem once in my entire life. Otherwise, you're comparing different things.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 octobre 2011 - 04:58 .

[coolide]

The character Sandal is more offensive than that video clip.

[Foolsfolly]

If you mean that transgendered people should tolerate cisgendered people, sure, though I've never known that to be a problem once in my entire life. Otherwise, you're comparing different things.

I'm talking about the OP saying you can't make jokes about it. You can make jokes about anything. And most times the funnest jokes are hurtful.

Outside of that one comment I don't care about this topic.

[Nimrodell]

Just 'cause elven girl has male's voice it doesn't mean she is transsexual... first ones that used that trick were actually Dreamworks in Shrek 2 with Cinderella's ugly sister working as a bartender as I recall... strange, no one even connected that with transsexualism. Or the world of DA is so advanced that they actually know for the entire process of gender change? If this topic wasn't made I would not even interpret that situation as having transsexual person in DA, lest alone someone's mocking them.
I'm really sorry because of stupidity of many people who don't understand transsexuals, sorry 'cause I'm only able to affect that in small part - I treat every individual as an equal and I don't even care for their sexual orientation or something that might be considered as that... but as I said, it didn't even occur to me that this might be distasteful reference on transsexuals, especially 'cause ti's sort of a medieval world, that prolly shouldn't have hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery... it just seemed to me as Cinderella's ugly sister in Shrek. That's all.

[MingWolf]

Firky wrote...

ademska wrote...

listen up, people: no one can tell you when to quit being hurt or offended at something, nor can you dictate the emotions of anyone else.

I think that's really important.

My personal philosophy is - you should never feel as if you have to "harden up" to exist in society, unless you are willing to concede that whatever is asking you to harden up is right and need not be changed.

I'm just a straight lady, and that video grab didn't offend me, though I did think it was a bit silly. If others, who have a better understanding of the issues are offended, then it's important and worth discussing.

Being upset by something is a sign to examine it and try to help change society for the better, not a need to harden up. (In my opinion.)

+1

[Treasure Woman]

Hmmm. I didn't see anything offensive about the video. I thought they were acting that way because he brought a prostitute with him to the Orlesian party. Ah well. :S

Modifié par Treasure Woman, 10 octobre 2011 - 05:42 .