497 réponses à ce sujet

[Demx]

So would having a option for Hawke's reaction to the character be preferred? Or should it be completely wiped out?

[astreqwerty]

i saw the scene and honestly... theres nothing wrong with it.to the op obviously i cannot understand nor identify with the problems your going through and i really hope that your people will come to terms with who you really are but just because this is the main issue of your whole existense theres no need to exaggerete.and rly trans audience?how many trans people do you see walking the streets?what im trying to say here is that your issue(in lack of a better word) is very rare and therefore the trans audience i imagine is abysmal..and for better or for worse what industries take into carefull consideration is demographics not the feelings of a minority.
having said that i must admit that the depiction of trans people in most media as prostitutes is in fact offensive and partially based on stereotypes..but again dont expect to see a trans protagonist or companion anytime soon.and although a trans companion would be in fact very interesting, such a revolutionary notion is way ahead of our times.as of now unfortunately,societies are struggling to accept the gay community (for example remember the reaction to the all bi LIs) and companies (like bioware) face problems when it comes to implementing homosexuality as something completely natural in their fictional worlds..transexuality is just a step further that companies are simply not ready to take fearing the inevitable strong reactions

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

From my personal list of top stupidest topics and "letters to bioware", this one takes the cake.

[Auroras]

Okay, what exactly happened in this scene?

Edit: Never mind, just saw it. All I have to say is... wow, Bioware. Really?

Modifié par Auroras, 11 octobre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Yrkoon]

Volourn wrote...

Why not quote the rest of it?

We're getting quoting advice from You?

[thats1evildude]

From what Mary said, I can see the mistake that was made. Tallis' line doesn't fit that scene; it seems more appropriate to a conversation where Hawke admits to frequenting the Blooming Rose. Still, it's a bit of a stretch to call this degrading to transgendered people. It's just really awkward dialogue.

Those hedges are pretty ugly, though. I'm offended by that shoddy landscaping on that estate.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 octobre 2011 - 12:57 .

[Volourn]

"We're getting quoting advice from You?"

Don't troll. It's very rude. Stay on topic. If you want to post about me start a thread about me.

Modifié par Volourn, 11 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Darth Executor]

I am very much enjoying this. Bioware has betrayed faithful RPG gamers so they can do crap romance simulators with swords. Instead of catering to various play styles they are now catering to various fetishes and sexual preferences so they can milk money from social outcasts who think there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a real "romance" with poorly written digitally rendered people who don't actually exist. Every once in a while their vile scheme blows up in their face

To the OP: Anxiety and depression are the least of your worries. I have both (well, more the latter, anxiety is pretty rare, though not particularly pleasant). Stuff I actually do draw my identity from is generally either mocked or ignored by most video game developers. And I don't really care, because I'm not looking for some mediocre writer like David Gaider or whoever is stuck writing for video games because they can't write anything in a medium that takes actual skill to validate me. The mere fact that you draw so much of your identity from your gender is a big problem. There are far more important attributes people have than what dangles (or doesn't) between their legs. You need to find them and put this one aside, otherwise it will devour you whole simply because there is nothing you can do about your current mental or physical condition that will change you into what you want to be.

[Xilizhra]

You need to find them and put this one aside, otherwise it will devour you whole simply because there is nothing you can do about your current mental or physical condition that will change you into what you want to be.

There's enough to approximate it. That's what matters.

[Morroian]

Auroras wrote...

Okay, what exactly happened in this scene?

Edit: Never mind, just saw it. All I have to say is... wow, Bioware. Really?

OK now read the first post in the thread that has the apology and explanation from Mary.

Modifié par Morroian, 11 octobre 2011 - 01:06 .

[Maconbar]

Darth Executor wrote...

I am very much enjoying this. Bioware has betrayed faithful RPG gamers so they can do crap romance simulators with swords. Instead of catering to various play styles they are now catering to various fetishes and sexual preferences so they can milk money from social outcasts who think there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a real "romance" with poorly written digitally rendered people who don't actually exist. Every once in a while their vile scheme blows up in their face

To the OP: Anxiety and depression are the least of your worries. I have both (well, more the latter, anxiety is pretty rare, though not particularly pleasant). Stuff I actually do draw my identity from is generally either mocked or ignored by most video game developers. And I don't really care, because I'm not looking for some mediocre writer like David Gaider or whoever is stuck writing for video games because they can't write anything in a medium that takes actual skill to validate me. The mere fact that you draw so much of your identity from your gender is a big problem. There are far more important attributes people have than what dangles (or doesn't) between their legs. You need to find them and put this one aside, otherwise it will devour you whole simply because there is nothing you can do about your current mental or physical condition that will change you into what you want to be.

BW has betrayed the faithful RPG gamers. Really???

Modifié par Maconbar, 11 octobre 2011 - 01:17 .

[addiction21]

Maconbar wrote...

BW has betrayed the faithful RPG gamers. Really???

I didnt know that was news? They have been doing it for about a decade now:)

[element eater]

my opinion on the matter i disliked the scene and found it a little awkward to view, i can see why it might upset some.

i dont believe in censorship, but i do believe people need to exercise good taste were appropriate and i feel it is lacking from this scene (or atleast how it comes across)

also some of the remarks people have made in this thread have been pretty disgraceful imo

also nice apology it was eloquently made and seemed appropriate t0 the situation

Modifié par element eater, 11 octobre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Herr Uhl]

addiction21 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

BW has betrayed the faithful RPG gamers. Really???

I didnt know that was news? They have been doing it for about a decade now:)

The faithfuls from a grand total of Baldurs Gate one and two? Or do you include BG 2 in the betrayal?

[Blastback]

Herr Uhl wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

BW has betrayed the faithful RPG gamers. Really???

I didnt know that was news? They have been doing it for about a decade now:)

The faithfuls from a grand total of Baldurs Gate one and two? Or do you include BG 2 in the betrayal?

Anyone who does is dead to me.

You can be resurected by giving ritual offerings off Dr. Pepper and Andes mints.

[addiction21]

Herr Uhl wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

BW has betrayed the faithful RPG gamers. Really???

I didnt know that was news? They have been doing it for about a decade now:)

The faithfuls from a grand total of Baldurs Gate one and two? Or do you include BG 2 in the betrayal?

Sorry maybe my sarcasim was unclear or it was jsut a bad joke. Every game BioWare has released since the orginal Baldurs Gate has been a betrayl to one group or another of the faithfull RPG gamers. If there is one constant for BioWare is that their games lack consistancy but this is the wrong thread for this discussion. I thought I was somewhere else

[John Epler]

Let's avoid trying to tell other people what they should or should not be offended by, shall we? And while we're at it, how about we cut out the armchair psychology.

I'm going to leave this topic open, but I strongly recommend people don't post unless they have something constructive to say. Which means that I'd rather we cut out the posts telling transgendered people what they should or should not be offended by, as I'm rather certain the majority of us (myself included) have no experience living that sort of lifestyle and dealing with the issues and societal biases associated with it.

That is all.

[David Gaider]

It's always interesting to see how someone else will interpret something you've written.

Mary's already apologized, as I don't think she intended it to be taken the way it was by the OP. But I'll add my two cents, here:

1) We love Serendipity. If we didn't love her, we wouldn't bring her back for any reason. While I understand someone might want us to have characters that they can personally identify with other than ones that are played for laughs, having a character that we adore and who we think is hilarious is no small feat. I'd hope that she would be taken in the spirit which she was meant.

2) Despite the above, the request for other kinds of transgendered characters is reasonable enough. We've even discussed it in the writer's pit from time to time. If anything, we've avoided it because it's a hard sell (in terms of it not coming across as a "gimmick" for a major character), it's not altogether setting-appropriate (cross-dressing perhaps, but that's not the same thing) and because unless a trangendered person somehow made themselves stand out (which someone like Serendipity would purposefully do) they're not going to come across as anything other than the gender they've chosen. More subtle nuances of appearance aren't something we're really set up to do, engine-wise (not without creating content specifically for that reason).

With either point, it would otherwise be really easy to dismiss the idea as being overstated-- easy because I (and no doubt most others) have no idea what it's like to live in a world where such stereotypes are constantly reinforced and have personal significance. Really, until very recently, gay people were in the same boat when it comes to videogames. So I'll add my apology to Mary's and we'll try to keep this in mind in the future. Thank you to the OP for pointing out something that would otherwise be overlooked.

Modifié par David Gaider, 11 octobre 2011 - 02:57 .

[slimgrin]

I'm with Gaider on this one.

[Blacklash93]

Off topic, but I can't stop thinking of that one song when I hear Serendipity's name. It's called "Sweet Serendipity", right?

[Bigdoser]

Treasure Woman wrote...

Hmmm. I didn't see anything offensive about the video. I thought they were acting that way because he brought a prostitute with him to the Orlesian party. Ah well. :S

Same here I really don't see the problem family guy makes offensive jokes all the time and I laugh at all of them including the black people ones. Yes I am black myself, plus family guy makes even worse offensive jokes sometimes and people still laugh at them.  I personally like Serendipity character also the fact that Serendipity is out in the open and dating is a positive thing and not hiding behind her problems or conditions or what other people say about her. Lets not forget that dragon age has quite a medievil setting so the characters may not have the same views that we have now, for example Dragon age doctors still use leeches and Mental conditions is the work of demons remeber the magistrates son?

Sry if my post does not make sense in some areas my grammer sucks.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 11 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Off topic, but I can't stop thinking of that one song when I hear Serendipity's name. It's called "Sweet Serendipity", right?

I can't stop thinking of the song "Dude looks like a lady".

[Siansonea]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Off topic, but I can't stop thinking of that one song when I hear Serendipity's name. It's called "Sweet Serendipity", right?

I can't stop thinking of the song "Dude looks like a lady".

...aaaand we're back in Douche Territory. <_<

[Siansonea]

David Gaider wrote...

It's always interesting to see how someone else will interpret something you've written.

Mary's already apologized, as I don't think she intended it to be taken the way it was by the OP. But I'll add my two cents, here:

1) We love Serendipity. If we didn't love her, we wouldn't bring her back for any reason. While I understand someone might want us to have characters that they can personally identify with other than ones that are played for laughs, having a character that we adore and who we think is hilarious is no small feat. I'd hope that she would be taken in the spirit which she was meant.

2) Despite the above, the request for other kinds of transgendered characters is reasonable enough. We've even discussed it in the writer's pit from time to time. If anything, we've avoided it because it's a hard sell (in terms of it not coming across as a "gimmick" for a major character), it's not altogether setting-appropriate (cross-dressing perhaps, but that's not the same thing) and because unless a trangendered person somehow made themselves stand out (which someone like Serendipity would purposefully do) they're not going to come across as anything other than the gender they've chosen. More subtle nuances of appearance aren't something we're really set up to do, engine-wise (not without creating content specifically for that reason).

With either point, it would otherwise be really easy to dismiss the idea as being overstated-- easy because I (and no doubt most others) have no idea what it's like to live in a world where such stereotypes are constantly reinforced and have personal significance. Really, until very recently, gay people were in the same boat when it comes to videogames. So I'll add my apology to Mary's and we'll try to keep this in mind in the future. Thank you to the OP for pointing out something that would otherwise be overlooked.

I think that's reasonable.

[Siansonea]

I think one way to create a memorable, fully-realize trans character is to take a different approach than one might expect. Namely, go with a female-to-male character, rather than a male-to-female character along the lines of Serendipity. A character like that might come across as a "butch" woman, but the characterization and writing could reinforce the trans identity. And if the character takes a male name and is addressed by male pronouns by other characters, that would drive the concept home. Think Billy Tipton, a woman secretly living as a man, and many people are unaware of the character's truth. Giving the character depth and dignity, as well as a dark side, would keep it from being a trope, a stereotype, or an overly PC counterstereotype.