497 réponses à ce sujet

[ademska]

Bigdoser wrote...

Same here I really don't see the problem family guy makes offensive jokes all the time and I laugh at all of them including the black people ones. Yes I am black myself, plus family guy makes even worse offensive jokes sometimes and people still laugh at them.  I personally like Serendipity character also the fact that Serendipity is out in the open and dating is a positive thing and not hiding behind her problems or conditions or what other people say about her. Lets not forget that dragon age has quite a medievil setting so the characters may not have the same views that we have now, for example Dragon age doctors still use leeches and Mental conditions is the work of demons remeber the magistrates son?

scroll up for a couple of seconds and read john epler's post, thanks. (edit: whoops, last page)

you may not find the clip offensive, but many did. that is their right.

and, for what it's worth, while as a white person i can never understand racial stigmas and biases, what i can say for a fact is that in media, no matter how underrrepresented people of color may be, there are still at least some positive portrayals. for trans*, there are virtually none.

and that 'medieval' excuse is bull, and we all know it. thedan attitudes toward women and LGB arte considerably different even from our modern-day perspective, and certainly they are not earth medieval. sociology of a fictional world =! sociology in our own past.

Modifié par ademska, 11 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Bigdoser]

ademska wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Same here I really don't see the problem family guy makes offensive jokes all the time and I laugh at all of them including the black people ones. Yes I am black myself, plus family guy makes even worse offensive jokes sometimes and people still laugh at them.  I personally like Serendipity character also the fact that Serendipity is out in the open and dating is a positive thing and not hiding behind her problems or conditions or what other people say about her. Lets not forget that dragon age has quite a medievil setting so the characters may not have the same views that we have now, for example Dragon age doctors still use leeches and Mental conditions is the work of demons remeber the magistrates son?

scroll up for a couple of seconds and read john epler's post, thanks. (edit: whoops, last page)

you may not find the clip offensive, but many did. that is their right.

and, for what it's worth, while as a white person i can never understand racial stigmas and biases, what i can say for a fact is that in media, no matter how underrrepresented people of color may be, there are still at least some positive portrayals. for trans*, there are virtually none.

and that 'medieval' excuse is bull, and we all know it. thedan attitudes toward women and LGB arte considerably different even from our modern-day perspective, and certainly they are not earth medieval. sociology of a fictional world =! sociology in our own past.

Really no positive portrayals for trans? You should really play nier kainie who is a trans is also my favourite character in the game and reading her story shows you how awesome she actually is and the fact that Serendipity is actually there at the party shows that she does not care what other people think of her and what I personally think of Serendipity is that she is happy with who she is. The fact that she is not really reacting to what other people say just impresses me even more about her and makes me like her character even more.

Edit: Hey maybe I am wrong about thedan attitudes to all these various subjects but if a media shows blacks in a negative light I don't get bent out of shape and find it very offensive cause I just tend to let them keep their ignorant views cause I KNOW what they are saying is full of ignorance and prejiduce and its simply not true. If they change their opinion thats good for them! If not I simply don't care! Cause shouting at them saying how wrong they are is not really going to change their opinion I simply show that I don't conform to their way of thinking or act how they think a certain group of people should act. Heck I had other black people insult me cause I have an english accent and not a african one I simply ignore them let them keep ranting cause I know how wrong they are.

You may disagree with how I view things but thats just how I see it.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:06 .

[Jarys]

Personally I have nothing against trans, gays, purple people, aliens, or what have you. But I don't understand people that are supposedly super sensitive posting on an internet forum like this. If you have a serious problem, send them an email, and you don't get exposed to people who would call you an idiot or some such.

Anyways, as I mentioned in the first sentence, I could care less who or what a person is. I just hate it when they shove it in your face and say 'I'm different, pay attention to ME!'

There will always be jokes at the expense of others. There will always be people picking on 'the other guy.' If you cannot take being 'the other guy,' then get some thicker skin, or do something real, to get true societal changes (which will never happen, at least not in north america, lol 'American freedom').

TLDR: Don't take things that do not refer to you by name personally. There is no 'ism of any kind in dragon age, bioware is one of the most progressive gaming companies in terms of racial/sexual equality. Don't fix what ain't broken.

[slimgrin]

Jarys wrote...

Personally I have nothing against trans, gays, purple people, aliens, or what have you. But I don't understand people that are supposedly super sensitive posting on an internet forum like this. If you have a serious problem, send them an email, and you don't get exposed to people who would call you an idiot or some such.

Anyways, as I mentioned in the first sentence, I could care less who or what a person is. I just hate it when they shove it in your face and say 'I'm different, pay attention to ME!'

There will always be jokes at the expense of others. There will always be people picking on 'the other guy.' If you cannot take being 'the other guy,' then get some thicker skin, or do something real, to get true societal changes (which will never happen, at least not in north america, lol 'American freedom').

TLDR: Don't take things that do not refer to you by name personally. There is no 'ism of any kind in dragon age, bioware is one of the most progressive gaming companies in terms of racial/sexual equality. Don't fix what ain't broken.

There is much truth in this post.

[Bigdoser]

Jarys wrote...

Personally I have nothing against trans, gays, purple people, aliens, or what have you. But I don't understand people that are supposedly super sensitive posting on an internet forum like this. If you have a serious problem, send them an email, and you don't get exposed to people who would call you an idiot or some such.

Anyways, as I mentioned in the first sentence, I could care less who or what a person is. I just hate it when they shove it in your face and say 'I'm different, pay attention to ME!'

There will always be jokes at the expense of others. There will always be people picking on 'the other guy.' If you cannot take being 'the other guy,' then get some thicker skin, or do something real, to get true societal changes (which will never happen, at least not in north america, lol 'American freedom').

TLDR: Don't take things that do not refer to you by name personally. There is no 'ism of any kind in dragon age, bioware is one of the most progressive gaming companies in terms of racial/sexual equality. Don't fix what ain't broken.

I completely agree.

[Siansonea]

Jarys wrote...

Personally I have nothing against trans, gays, purple people, aliens, or what have you. But I don't understand people that are supposedly super sensitive posting on an internet forum like this. If you have a serious problem, send them an email, and you don't get exposed to people who would call you an idiot or some such.

Anyways, as I mentioned in the first sentence, I could care less who or what a person is. I just hate it when they shove it in your face and say 'I'm different, pay attention to ME!'

There will always be jokes at the expense of others. There will always be people picking on 'the other guy.' If you cannot take being 'the other guy,' then get some thicker skin, or do something real, to get true societal changes (which will never happen, at least not in north america, lol 'American freedom').

TLDR: Don't take things that do not refer to you by name personally. There is no 'ism of any kind in dragon age, bioware is one of the most progressive gaming companies in terms of racial/sexual equality. Don't fix what ain't broken.

Oh shut up.

You don't know what this person is going through, and you don't have to read their posts. They have just as much right to post their feelings about the way BioWare handled that scene as do the multitudes of whining brats who have been burning up the internet shouting their extreme rage over the fact that BioWare added optional multiplayer to Mass Effect 3. So take your "suck it up" attitude and shove it. One person's "jokes at the expense of others" are another person's deeply hurtful bullying. A person can speak up when they're offended. And I'm offended that people like you have such a callous attitude toward people who feel hurt. How about staying out of threads that discuss such things, if you don't want to hear it, rather than mandating that such discussions be taken to private messages.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:10 .

[Xilizhra]

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

[Bigdoser]

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

This is BSN thats just how we do things here.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:19 .

[LordKinoda]

Heh, this thread has seriously blown up. It's inevitably just going to get too heated and then locked. I say nip it in the bud. There isn't much more to say than what's been said already. Tons of us have weighed in on the topic, and even the devs have chimed it. Let's leave the dead horse where it lay and put down the clubs shall we ?

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

This whole thread is fascinating.

[Volourn]

"Oh shut up."

You offend me with your rudeness. If you don't like people having a differing opinion then yuou YOU don't have to read them.

This is a public forum. Every post including the OP and the following posts opro or anti it are all public and the public 9all of us) have the right to post their opinion whether YOU (or I0 like it or not.

I though your post was rude and I'm sure someone hates my repsonse and will respond. That's the NATURE of PUBLIC forums.

If you don't want someone responding to your post then use the PRIVATE message system that BIO has graciously allowed us access to on these boards.

WIN WIN.

[Siansonea]

Volourn wrote...

"Oh shut up."

You offend me with your rudeness. If you don't like people having a differing opinion then yuou YOU don't have to read them.

This is a public forum. Every post including the OP and the following posts opro or anti it are all public and the public 9all of us) have the right to post their opinion whether YOU (or I0 like it or not.

I though your post was rude and I'm sure someone hates my repsonse and will respond. That's the NATURE of PUBLIC forums.

If you don't want someone responding to your post then use the PRIVATE message system that BIO has graciously allowed us access to on these boards.

WIN WIN.

Well, when someone posts a "just shut up" response to someone else's suffering, my response tends to echo their own sentiment. Is it rude to be rude to the rude?

It is a public forum. That was my POINT. People should post their opinions. But when somebody's opinion is "you shouldn't post your opinion" because they don't get what the fuss is about, I have a problem with that. Their lack of empathy and compassion is not our problem.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:40 .

[slimgrin]

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really do feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:44 .

[Xilizhra]

slimgrin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really to feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

So what you're saying here is that it's more mature to be pissed off at some random Internet post than a video game scene?

[Tommyspa]

Is this thread about human rights or emotional instability?

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really do feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

How very compassionate of you. Why don't YOU get over it first? The world doesn't revolve around you either, you know. You don't know what this person and others who share their circumstances go through, and I'm inclined to take them at their word that certain things are hurtful. People are allowed to say that they find things hurtful. If that bothers you, take your own medicine and get over it. How about that?

[Bigdoser]

Tommyspa wrote...

Is this thread about human rights or emotional instability?

I think both.

[Siansonea]

Tommyspa wrote...

Is this thread about human rights or emotional instability?

It's about having basic respect for fellow human beings, and allowing them to express their feelings without feeling bullied. And no, the "shut up and get over it" viewpoint is not a valid viewpoint, as some around here seem to think.

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really do feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

How very compassionate of you. Why don't YOU get over it first? The world doesn't revolve around you either, you know. You don't know what this person and others who share their circumstances go through, and I'm inclined to take them at their word that certain things are hurtful. People are allowed to say that they find things hurtful. If that bothers you, take your own medicine and get over it. How about that?

I don't condone actions that would supress artistic creativity, even if it's just a joke, Bioware is allowed that in my book. If I'm offended by it, so be it. And I move on.

[D.Kain]

masterthief wrote...

Here's one.

I found that scene funny. 

[Xilizhra]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really do feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

How very compassionate of you. Why don't YOU get over it first? The world doesn't revolve around you either, you know. You don't know what this person and others who share their circumstances go through, and I'm inclined to take them at their word that certain things are hurtful. People are allowed to say that they find things hurtful. If that bothers you, take your own medicine and get over it. How about that?

I don't condone actions that would supress artistic creativity, even if it's just a joke, Bioware is allowed that in my book. If I'm offended by it, so be it. And I move on.

The problem of this thread stemmed from a lack of proper dialogue for a specific scene. Bringing it to the writer's attention will motivate them to be more careful in filling in dialogue. This will make the artistic expression superior in the future. Your argument is invalid.

[Danyu]

I used to be extremely fat starting from an early age and was sensitive to any humor portrayed in the media. Even though I got over my crazy eating disorder, I still find that I can't immediately laugh at any fat jokes. There has been no character-type used more often than the useless, lazy and fat guy who can't stop eating

I currently have a girlfriend that has epilepsy that gets offended by humor that pokes fun at seizures.

I say this all because while I may not be transgender, I do know what it's like to sometimes feel berated, looked upon with downcast eyes, or feel like I have no future or hope. People who are or have been severely overweight understand what I mean.

Honestly, even though apparently the scene was an accident, I could see myself thinking what Talis said ('Awkward') outloud if I were in her place. Just like if many people here saw an extremely fat guy try to sit down in a chair and couldn't fit in it, people may look at the guy with awkward eyes. Or when a disabled person in a wheelchair is the spotlight in a boring climate.

People are offended by everything now in days, but that's okay, I guess, but where are people supposed to draw a line? What if I was offended by the idea of a person killing people in a videogame? Or how about if I was offended by the idea of the Chantry and Templars and how it can be compared directly to the Christian religion? There are people who are offended by saying, 'Merry Christmas' to them on .... Christmas Day now in a country that claims to be over 75% Christian.

What my girlfriend and I have learned quite awhile back is how you take the offense. Are you going to let it ruin your day? Or are you going to just blow it off, chin up, realizing the joke wasn't aimed directly at you and move on?

I'm Filipino and straight up I get tired of seeing the media attempting to be racially diverse just for the sake of being diverse. A good chunk of the time the 'racially' or 'sexually' diverse characters have barely any substance at all.

And while, it really would be interesting and something different to see an transgender main character/companion for a dragon age game, I agree with Gaider on it being a tough sell. A good example is the new Ultimate Spider-Man comic where Peter Parker was killed in place of a Hispanic/Black kid. Myself, being a big Origins and DA2 fan would be turned off by the idea of a transgender main character and see it just as a gimmick.

Anyways, I think I'm done.

EDIT: Sidenote: I should say that the new Ultimate Spider-Man has been selling well despite it being an obvious ploy for sales. But that, me and many others who have been longtime fans of Peter Parker refuse to buy it, many of which had purchased this comic line for 100+ issues.

Modifié par Danyu, 11 octobre 2011 - 05:18 .

[Tommyspa]

Siansonea II wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

Is this thread about human rights or emotional instability?

It's about having basic respect for fellow human beings, and allowing them to express their feelings without feeling bullied. And no, the "shut up and get over it" viewpoint is not a valid viewpoint, as some around here seem to think.

I in good faith cannot agree with the get over it thing not being a valid, based on me seeing humans being poor or worse in 3rd world countries compared to bullying or people being insensitive to other people's emotions. I think the only people world you can't tell to "get over it" are people who actually have to fight for food to continue living, that life is harder than any amount of bullying or being dehumanized, living would superceed any kind of sadness, I'm fairly sure any reasonable human would agree. However people can by all means lament their feeling however they wish, otherwise nothing will change, as long as they do not take offensive to the detractors not caring about their life problems or it not seeming important to them as they see it as a non-issue if they see bigger problems in the world...or if the ones saying that are just insensitve arses, and at which point you can just mentally ignore them because they will never care.

[Isaidlunch]

Jarys wrote...

Personally I have nothing against trans, gays, purple people, aliens, or what have you. But I don't understand people that are supposedly super sensitive posting on an internet forum like this. If you have a serious problem, send them an email, and you don't get exposed to people who would call you an idiot or some such.

Anyways, as I mentioned in the first sentence, I could care less who or what a person is. I just hate it when they shove it in your face and say 'I'm different, pay attention to ME!'

There will always be jokes at the expense of others. There will always be people picking on 'the other guy.' If you cannot take being 'the other guy,' then get some thicker skin, or do something real, to get true societal changes (which will never happen, at least not in north america, lol 'American freedom').

TLDR: Don't take things that do not refer to you by name personally. There is no 'ism of any kind in dragon age, bioware is one of the most progressive gaming companies in terms of racial/sexual equality. Don't fix what ain't broken.

So if you're "the other guy" and you can't magically wave your wand to change society to accept you, you should just suck it up? You shouldn't try to change things for the better whenever possible like asking for a more balanced depiction in a video game?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said but I'm not following your logic at all.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The number of people who are saying to "get over it" whilst spending so much time complaining about complaints is utterly fascinating.

I've respected Bioware for including same sex realtionships, but I don't expect them to include every wrinkle society has to offer. It pisses me off when people get their panties in a bundle over stuff like this. I'm sorry, but I really do feel like telling those offended to get the f*ck over it. The world doesn't revolve around you. 

How very compassionate of you. Why don't YOU get over it first? The world doesn't revolve around you either, you know. You don't know what this person and others who share their circumstances go through, and I'm inclined to take them at their word that certain things are hurtful. People are allowed to say that they find things hurtful. If that bothers you, take your own medicine and get over it. How about that?

I don't condone actions that would supress artistic creativity, even if it's just a joke, Bioware is allowed that in my book. If I'm offended by it, so be it. And I move on.

We're not talking about art, we're talking about a commercial product with artistic merit. The product is aimed at a broad audience. Jokes are fine, but they should a) be funny and not poke fun at people in a hurtful manner. I personally don't feel that the Serendipity scene is extremely hurtful, but I can see how another person might feel that it is, and I respect their right to say so. I think that the writers and developers have addressed the situation fairly and maturely, and I just wish people didn't feel the need to barge in and say "I don't see what the fuss is about, get over it". That just kills the dialogue, which from what I can tell, has been productive for the most part.