497 réponses à ce sujet

[masterthief]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Transsexualism became overwhelmingly more widespread than before due to the advancements in modern medical technology. You simply cannot hold the same modern standard against a medieval setting such as Dragon Age.

No.  There have been trans* people as long as there have been people.  The fact that some elect to have SRS does not negate being trans* in itself.   Of course SRS and HRT likely were not viable options in the Dragon Age setting.  That does not mean that there are, or were not trans* characters.   Bringing up SRS is utterly irrelevant.

[Anyroad2]

LordKinoda wrote...

ANY censorship. Of any kind. Nothing should be censor for fear of it offending somebody. Period.

Careful there, you'll offend the pro-censoreship people.

[masterthief]

LordKinoda wrote...

ANY censorship. Of any kind. Nothing should be censor for fear of it offending somebody. Period.

I see a difference between forced censorship and, "hey, you did this, we don't like it, would you consider doing something different?"  No one's forcing anyone to do anything, but if someone wants to listen and think, "yeah, maybe that was a bad decision, we'll rethink/etc it," then that is not censorship.   If they don't, then they don't.  That's a product of intelligent discussion and free speech in itself. I know I said I wasn't going to buy the DLC, but one guy not buying DLC isn't going to cause Bioware to take a huge financial hit.  

[whykikyouwhy]

naledgeborn wrote...

Talk is cheap. I've been on marches what have you done lately other than whine about what should/not be in video games?

I don't think we need to start breaking out resumes, and we certainly shouldn't be challenging each other on who has done what, or more, or when. No one needs to prove their worth here based on what they do or have done in their lives - this isn't some contest for that.

People have concerns about a game and the game's content, on a gaming forum. So long as people keep within the rules of said forum, they are well within their rights to express those concerns. And if the forum is the easiest and surest way to reach the attention of the developers of said game, then this is the place to make those concerns known.

[Barry Bathernak]

*clapping* good for you being able to tell us at the b.s.n. alot about you and i even though i like some bi options i just didn't like it when everyone was bi.

[naledgeborn]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

You marches are organized, and your slogans written, by people like Xilizhra.

Someone's gonna be the brain of the operation, no? 

Sure laugh all you want. Don't have to prove anything. I traveled cross country to hear Louis Farrakhan and Betty Shabazz  speak among other promintent figures. I was there in DC in '95. What have all the countless whiners on BSN done other than post rants and complaints?

[LordKinoda]

Careful there, you'll offend the pro-censoreship people.

Heh, they can bite me.

I'm tired now of saying the same thing over and over. I have to go to work soon anyway. So I'll just sum it up one last time and be done with it.

-Censoring the game because you are offended by a 'joke' in poor taste ? No.

-I can see why you want more positive representations of transgenders in games, and I won't argue against you on that. By the same token, harden yourself against the negative references lest you be constantly offended and annoyed. Or better yet, ignore said offences entirely.

[Xilizhra]

masterthief wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Transsexualism became overwhelmingly more widespread than before due to the advancements in modern medical technology. You simply cannot hold the same modern standard against a medieval setting such as Dragon Age.

No.  There have been trans* people as long as there have been people.  The fact that some elect to have SRS does not negate being trans* in itself.   Of course SRS and HRT likely were not viable options in the Dragon Age setting.  That does not mean that there are, or were not trans* characters.   Bringing up SRS is utterly irrelevant.

I think what he meant was that there were only successfully transitioned people due to advancements in modern technology. Before SRS, they were pretty much screwed. It's forgiveable if people not well-knowledgeable about the community get their vocabulary mixed up; I used to think an MtF who was attracted to women would be considered straight.

[General User]

I read the title of this thread and learned two new words.

[naledgeborn]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I don't think we need to start breaking out resumes, and we certainly shouldn't be challenging each other on who has done what, or more, or when. No one needs to prove their worth here based on what they do or have done in their lives - this isn't some contest for that.

People have concerns about a game and the game's content, on a gaming forum. So long as people keep within the rules of said forum, they are well within their rights to express those concerns. And if the forum is the easiest and surest way to reach the attention of the developers of said game, then this is the place to make those concerns known.

Thanks for being a voice of reason. It just irritates me when people bring their so-called "causes" online and haven't done a lick about it in RL. And then go on complaining like BW owes them something. If it pisses you off that much write a physical letter to one of the developers about it at the very least.

[Anyroad2]

naledgeborn wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

You marches are organized, and your slogans written, by people like Xilizhra.

Someone's gonna be the brain of the operation, no? 

Sure laugh all you want. Don't have to prove anything. I traveled cross country to hear Louis Farrakhan and Betty Shabazz  speak among other promintent figures. I was there in DC in '95. What have all the countless whiners on BSN done other than post rants and complaints?

Already covered. Whoops!

Contests on the net are silly anyway. People can say whatever they want, and its unlikely that people will find the proof to prove them wrong.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:41 .

[Seagloom]

I will sidestep the ongoing debate since it is not worth my time to participate in.

To the OP: I feel for you and understand. I cannot imagine how difficult your situation must be. I realized I needed to transition only in the last two to three years, after over a decade of soul searching to figure out why I was never quite happy with myself. Dealing with that while attending school, and not finding any reliable avenues of support must be tough. I have my mom, an older sister, and two friends all supporting me, and even then I have felt suicidally depressed more often than I care to. I really hope you hang in there, and can find the emotional support you need.

This Mark of the Assassin news is disappointing. Disappointing because BioWare has milked this tasteless excuse for a joke twice before. First with the two trans prostitutes in DAO's Pearl brothel both insultingly named 'Female Companion', and the dwarf you might get by picking the "surprise me" option. Then twice in DA2. First in the standard game, and now in this DLC.

I downloaded Mark of the Assassin sight unseen, because the idea of a rogue oriented adventure appealed to me. Had I known this sort of content was waiting, I would not have bothered. Up to now, I never bothered to write a public post on just how much these portrayals annoy me because I was sure no one at BioWare would care. Seeing positive LGB portrayals and romances felt victory enough. But if you are going to step forward, then I want to add my voice to yours and say, this is NOT cool. It has NEVER been amusing. And I am SICK of it.

My first reaction after reading your post MsKehoe was unbridled rage. I came dangerously close to snapping the DA2 disc in half and posting a furious rant. Then I calmed down and realized how reckless that was; and felt a sinking feeling of disappointment and stupidity. I will definitely not be making any day one BioWare purchases after this. I had it.

Do not get me wrong BioWare staff. I am not without a sense of humor. I do not believe anyone should be above at least some playful ribbing. But when there are no positive portrayals to be found of trans characters in *any* of your games, and you keep rubbing this same joke in, it becomes harder to take your strides toward inclusion seriously. Please do not forget your queer audience is not strictly limited to lesbian, gay, and bisexual players.

Modifié par Seagloom, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:48 .

[naledgeborn]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Lets not turn this into a contest. Its pretty silly, especially because youre doing this over the internet when anyone can say whatever they want and you'll never find the proof to prove them wrong.

No doubt.

[I Like Cats And]

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

I read the title of this thread and learned two new words.

Same story here.

[Siansonea]

naledgeborn wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

You marches are organized, and your slogans written, by people like Xilizhra.

Someone's gonna be the brain of the operation, no? 

Sure laugh all you want. Don't have to prove anything. I traveled cross country to hear Louis Farrakhan and Betty Shabazz  speak among other promintent figures. I was there in DC in '95. What have all the countless whiners on BSN done other than post rants and complaints?

More than you might think. You might believe we have limited ourselves to expressing our views here on the BSN, but I can tell you I have personally visited Congresspeople to discuss matters that I care about, both on a state and national level. I volunteered with the campaign to elect Houston's first openly lesbian City Council member in the late 1990s. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Just because you see what we post on the BSN doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about the extent of our individual efforts to effect social change. Don't assume.

[Xilizhra]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

Odd, I didn't think humor consisted of ignoring everything other people are saying. Perhaps that explains why your sense of it isn't very good.

[masterthief]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

masterthief wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Transsexualism became overwhelmingly more widespread than before due to the advancements in modern medical technology. You simply cannot hold the same modern standard against a medieval setting such as Dragon Age.

No.  There have been trans* people as long as there have been people.  The fact that some elect to have SRS does not negate being trans* in itself.   Of course SRS and HRT likely were not viable options in the Dragon Age setting.  That does not mean that there are, or were not trans* characters.   Bringing up SRS is utterly irrelevant.

What I am saying is, modern medical technology have made transgendered people non-distinguishable from others of their chosen gender. This has been impossible before say, the 19th century or equivalent. Which is why it is unrealistic for characters like Serendipity in DA2 to look and sound exactly like an attractive woman. She/he does not have access to the necessary technology. Her/his "unappealing" portrayal is not an intentional choice of discrimination, but a necessity within the bounds of suspended disbelief.

Thanks to modern technology, a large number of transgendered people can truly assume their chosen identity and actually carry out their lives in the way they like. This has not been possible previously.

These are peculiarities about transsexualism not shared by others in the LGBT community. You don't need advanced technology to have homosexual intercourse - even monkeys do it - but you DO need technology to switch your gender completely. There is no way around that.

You're missing the point.  People aren't angry because she isn't able to access technology that doesn't exist yet--should she choose to--people are angry because she is being handled like an utter joke and the PC/Tallis both are visibly uncomfortable by her mere presence (or hitting on Hawke).   In Thedas, a fictional society that has already established there is considerably less of a stigma against homosexuality/bisexuality, it's still apparently okay to be uncomfortable by a trans* sex worker doing things like speaking.    Again, SRS or lack thereof is irrelevant to the discussion at large.

There is nothing inherently bad about prostitution.  If that's what someone wants to do, then neither I or anyone else has any business judging their decision.  However, many trans* people are forced into sex work because they don't have any options other than giving cisgender folks Interesting Sex Experiences due to the discrimination they face.   Trans* folk don't exist outside of brothels whatsoever in Dragon Age II, and since that scene appears to be nothing but an unnecessary joke with a trans* character as a punchline when there is zero positive representation whatsoever in the rest of the game, then yeah, I'm angry.  

[K_Tabris]

MsKehoe wrote...


P.S. If you're wondering where this came from, it has been a problem I've been noticing for a while, but a scene from the Mark of the Assassin DLC just ignited something in me and I had to write this out. Enough is enough. Do something about this.

I'm going to ignore anyone who doesn't have anything productive to say. Thank you.

OP, I am sorry this happened to you, as well as any other transexual gamer.   My initial thought is that, at this point, it is still ok, and humourous to society to mock this sector of the LBGTQ community, when in fact, it is not anymore ok to do this than it is to mock a straight or a gay person.  I hope Bioware writers read this thread, and take this into consideration for upcoming games.

[I Like Cats And]

Xilizhra wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

Odd, I didn't think humor consisted of ignoring everything other people are saying. Perhaps that explains why your sense of it isn't very good.

don't really know what you mean by that, but your statement was really stupid because ignoring people on a forum leads to a bad sense of humor how? though if that's your idea of a witty comeback maybe it's you with the questionable humor.

Modifié par I Like Cats And, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:48 .

[mousestalker]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

I like to mock people who aren't especially articulate and can not write or speak logically. They make very easy targets for sarcasm, snarkiness, japery and irony. I generally try not to indulge in this as the contest of wits is quite lopsided and it's a blessing to have mercy on those less well equipped for such contests.

Are you saying that was a mistake on my part? 

[Xilizhra]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

Odd, I didn't think humor consisted of ignoring everything other people are saying. Perhaps that explains why your sense of it isn't very good.

don't really know what you mean by that, but your statement was really stupid because ignoring people on a forum leads to a bad sense of humor how?

No, the fact that you thought it was a decent joke shows that you have a bad sense of humor, and your incomprehension of anyone's opinions shows that you haven't been listening to anyone else.

[Sylvianus]

Some should really stop playing video games. Really. And in any case, you are here on a video game forum.

 Too emotional, too sensitive, for something anecdotal of a video game. Yes a video game, as part of an entertainment. There may be things you think of bad taste, but useless to sue a company video game for something anecdotally that lasts less than a minute and that is again anecdotal. Ignore it.

 This topic is proof that Bioware with its social considerations is a prisoner of its policy. Now every game content of Bioware is deemed offensive by each different group of people. Bioware is not anymore a video game company here , but for many a political showcase of social problems that must advance the cause of one  political group or another, which wants this or that, less or more.etc

On this forum, I see a lot  of topic that have nothing to do with a video game format. And as long
as Bioware continues to show tolerance for all these considerations out of the game, it will continue to be its weakness.

 The political and social struggle that should be found elsewhere in formats policies, are found here. Fighting on anything and everything.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:49 .

[I Like Cats And]

mousestalker wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

Can't wait until the whole world is as politicaly correct as all you cry babies want it. Guess what the world's not perfect and you might get made fun of now and then. The video everyone's crying about isn't even that bad. Comedy is 99% making fun of some group so i guess all stand ups should e shunned. Toughen up cause you're never gonna make it at this rate.

I like to mock people who aren't especially articulate and can not write or speak logically. They make very easy targets for sarcasm, snarkiness, japery and irony. I generally try not to indulge in this as the contest of wits is quite lopsided and it's a blessing to have mercy on those less well equipped for such contests.

Are you saying that was a mistake on my part? 

what you said had nothing to do with what i posted.