497 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

[edit: bickering removed. If you don't like this thread, feel free to move to another]

Modifié par casamar, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:20 .

[Moussey]

Mary Kirby wrote...

To the OP and others offended by this scene:

I am deeply sorry. It wasn't my intent to make Serendipity the punchline of that conversation or to depict her in a negative light. But my intent as the writer doesn't matter. What I was trying to do failed, and ultimately, what came across to you was hurtful, and that does matter. And for that, I cannot apologize enough. Again, I'm very sorry.

Hi Kirby.

I really appreciate you for coming forth and apologizing for the issue. That was an honorable thing for you to do.

However, I'm still wondering what your original intent was, since that joke was so obvious that anyone with eyes and ears can tell that it's making fun of Serendipity for being a lady boy. They don't even need to know anything about transgenderism to get that punchline.

What other meaning is there, if it has nothing to do with transgenderism or Serendipity being an unconventional person?

[Sylvianus]

...you do know the snowball effect is a logical fallacy, don't you?

Elaborate.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Siona]

Mary Kirby wrote...

To the OP and others offended by this scene:

I am deeply sorry. It wasn't my intent to make Serendipity the punchline of that conversation or to depict her in a negative light. But my intent as the writer doesn't matter. What I was trying to do failed, and ultimately, what came across to you was hurtful, and that does matter. And for that, I cannot apologize enough. Again, I'm very sorry.

This was a good apology. Thanks for being able to accept the whole thing graciously.

[mauledbyswans]

Teddie Sage wrote...

@Mary Kirby: There is still a lot of time to remove this scene from the official download.

This.

Though the apology is appreciated, I have no intention of buying this DLC anymore.

[slimgrin]

Ferris95 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

All fine and well for you then, other people would prefer a product that doesn't relegate their existence to shock humor.

God forbid they create their own universe, where prejiduces don't conveniently mirror our own.

Answer me this then, what purpose does a bad joke about transgendered people serve in Dragon Age?

EDIT: Or any game for that matter.

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Blastback]

slimgrin wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

All fine and well for you then, other people would prefer a product that doesn't relegate their existence to shock humor.

God forbid they create their own universe, where prejiduces don't conveniently mirror our own.

Answer me this then, what purpose does a bad joke about transgendered people serve in Dragon Age?

EDIT: Or any game for that matter.

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Are they allowed to?  Yes.  That doesn't make it a good idea or the right thing to do.

[payroo]

Thanks to Mary Kirby for apologizing. I hope that at the very least BioWare will acknowledge this issue, even if it's too much to hope for an actual change to the DLC now.

slimgrin wrote...

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Are you beaten to the point of hospitalization or death for being tall? Do police fail to protect you because you like venison?

[tmp7704]

Moussey wrote...

What other meaning is there, if it has nothing to do with transgenderism or Serendipity being an unconventional person?

Would guess it may have something to do with a prostitute being a guest. Given trollHawke joke about everyone present being upper class.

[naledgeborn]

slimgrin wrote...

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

No! Never that! I'll be right there with you starting 17 topics about how BW is discriminating against tall, venison eaters.

[slimgrin]

Blastback wrote...

Are they allowed to?  Yes.  That doesn't make it a good idea or the right thing to do.

.....this is art we are talking about. Just what is right, what is appropriate? Isn't that up to them?

[llandwynwyn]

Did people miss her in the base game or something? She was portrayed the same way, as a popular and flirty prostitute. We knew Bran was her client then, too.

[Gvaz]

slimgrin wrote...

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Okay, see how many people buy the game when they start making jokes about asian people or black people.

[Xilizhra]

slimgrin wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Are they allowed to?  Yes.  That doesn't make it a good idea or the right thing to do.

.....this is art we are talking about. Just what is right, what is appropriate? Isn't that up to them?

I could go into that in more detail (it involves avoiding that which plays into cultural anti-egalitarianism trends), but that would take too long, so I'll just simply be glad that, today, our side has won.

[Seagloom]

slimgrin wrote...

No, they don't have to do anything of the sort. It's their creation and it doesn't have to conform to modern societal conventions. Kirby actually apologizing? Weak. There is no faster way to neuter artistic experssion than this nonsense.

Quite the opposite of weak. Weak would be hiding behind the invisible wall of the web or defending it to her dying breath. Her apology was empathetic. It reminded me why I still follow this company, and return to these forums despite the overflowing bile it is regularly drowning in.

Also, let us be serious here: labelling something art does not give someone carte blanche to do whatever they want. To date, BioWare's portrayals of trans women are the worst kind of stereotypes. Stereotypes that few would stand for if they were representative of a more visible minority.

Art is not sacrosanct. It can both influence and reflect our culture, and that should be considered. Doubly so in a medium that has not found its identity as art.

Modifié par Seagloom, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:35 .

[slimgrin]

GvazElite wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Okay, see how many people buy the game when they start making jokes about asian people or black people.

Yeah, I'm sure they're gonna start doing that...

The problerm here is everyone has their own definition of what is right. And in a fictional universe, created by artists, this becomes a moot point. If I were gay, or transgender, I would champion a creator's right to do this, unhampered by modern bias.

Where the hell is Seagloom? Has she commented on this?

~edit~ there she is..

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:38 .

[Blastback]

Seagloom wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

No, they don't have to do anything of the sort. It's their creation and it doesn't have to conform to modern societal conventions. Kirby actually apologizing? Weak. There is no faster way to neuter artistic experssion than this nonsense.

Quite the opposite of weak. Weak would be hiding behind the invisible wall of the web or defending it to her dying breath. Her apology was empathetic. It reminded me why I still follow this company, and return to these forums despite the overflowing bile it is regularly drowning in.

Also, let us be serious here: labelling something art does not give someone carte blanche to do whatever they want. To date, BioWare's portrayals of trans women are the worst kind of stereotypes. Stereotypes that few would stand for if they were representative of a more visible minority.

Art is not sacrosanct. It can both influence and reflect our culture, and that should be considered. Doubly so in a medium that has not found its identity as art.

Well said.

[casamar]

Cleaned up some fighting. If you don't like the subject matter or have nothing substantive to contribute, please find another thread/forum/site to frequent.

Please keep the discussion civil, without resorting fighting or veiled personal attacks.

Thank you

[esper]

slimgrin wrote...

GvazElite wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I don't care. They're allowed to make any joke they want, as it's their game. No subject is inherently sacred  in my eyes, and those that can't handle it, well, that's their problem. But Bioware is fast losing their spine...

I'm 6' 5" and love venison...but by god they better not joke about that!

Okay, see how many people buy the game when they start making jokes about asian people or black people.

Yeah, I'm sure thier gonna start doing that...

The problerm here is everyone has their own definition of what is right. And in a fictional universe, created by artists, this becomes a moot point. If I were gay, or Tansgender, I would champion a creator's right to do this, unhampered by modern bias.

Where the hell is Seagloom? Has she commented on this?

~edit~ there she is..

You are allowed to say everything you want, but you better be prepared to apologize if you step over the line or accept the fact that you made enemies because not everyone has to accept you as funny.

From Kirby's reply it seemed that the transexual, were never the intended pun, so it is right of her to apologize.

[Blastback]

llandwynwyn wrote...

Did people miss her in the base game or something? She was portrayed the same way, as a popular and flirty prostitute. We knew Bran was her client then, too.

Don't remeber her at all.  But I never really spent much time in the Rose.

[ObserverStatus]

casamar wrote...
Cleaned up some fighting. If you don't like the subject matter or have nothing substantive to contribute, please find another thread/forum/site to frequent.
Please keep the discussion civil, without resorting fighting or veiled personal attacks.
Thank you

Forgive me for saying, but on these forums, whenever someone starts a "I don't support X" thread, the mods usually close the thread saying "There is already a thread about X, please use the I support X" thread, and than ban the people who voice their dislike of X on the "I support X" thread as they were instructed to. Can you guarantee that this "other thread" won't be closed within 10 minutes and stickied back to this one?

Modifié par bobobo878, 09 octobre 2011 - 09:45 .

[autumnyte]

llandwynwyn wrote...

Did people miss her in the base game or something? She was portrayed the same way, as a popular and flirty prostitute. We knew Bran was her client then, too.

Part of the big issue, for me, had to do with Hawke's reaction. Having the game impose a transphobic response onto Sarcastic Hawke, the character I play, without any sort of warning, was a slap to the face.