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So they wanted people to side with the templars more often?


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#251
Killjoy Cutter

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What dismal track record? They kept order for almost a millinium without any major incidence. Of course if you want a single incidence (Kirkwall) be the poster issue for all Templars everywhere, then the rest of us should be free to judge all mages for their bad apples.


No, I'm not judging the entire system based only on what happened at Kirkwall.  Don't forget what happened at the circle in Ferelden.  And there are other examples shown in the game and mentioned in the lore. 

Never mind that "order" isn't a virtue, it's just a means to an end. 

#252
TheJediSaint

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What dismal track record? They kept order for almost a millinium without any major incidence. Of course if you want a single incidence (Kirkwall) be the poster issue for all Templars everywhere, then the rest of us should be free to judge all mages for their bad apples.


No, I'm not judging the entire system based only on what happened at Kirkwall.  Don't forget what happened at the circle in Ferelden.  And there are other examples shown in the game and mentioned in the lore. 

Never mind that "order" isn't a virtue, it's just a means to an end. 



To be fair, Thedas in general seems to be a pretty disfuctional place, and I dont know if the Circles and Templars are more unstable than anything else in this setting.  Orlais has been gradually losing lands, Tevinter broke heaven at the height of its power, the Dwarves value tradition more than survival, the Dalish always seem to be fiddling with dangerous magic, and Fereleden thought that a blight was a smashing time for a civil war.  So my point is that as a rule, if it's in Thedas, it probably barely functional if at all.

#253
Killjoy Cutter

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TheJediSaint wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What dismal track record? They kept order for almost a millinium without any major incidence. Of course if you want a single incidence (Kirkwall) be the poster issue for all Templars everywhere, then the rest of us should be free to judge all mages for their bad apples.


No, I'm not judging the entire system based only on what happened at Kirkwall.  Don't forget what happened at the circle in Ferelden.  And there are other examples shown in the game and mentioned in the lore. 

Never mind that "order" isn't a virtue, it's just a means to an end. 


To be fair, Thedas in general seems to be a pretty disfuctional place, and I dont know if the Circles and Templars are more unstable than anything else in this setting.  Orlais has been gradually losing lands, Tevinter broke heaven at the height of its power, the Dwarves value tradition more than survival, the Dalish always seem to be fiddling with dangerous magic, and Fereleden thought that a blight was a smashing time for a civil war.  So my point is that as a rule, if it's in Thedas, it probably barely functional if at all.


Fair point, I suppose.  Thedas does seem to be a land of broken cultures.  There are rarely good choices when it comes to the big decisions.  Mages or Templars, Behlen or Harrowmont, Andraste-fanatics or Qun-fanatics, die killing the Archdemon and leave behind a mess or risk trusting Morrigan and her ritual.  Etc.

#254
xiiFezz

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My first playthrough was with a rouge so Bethany went to the Circle and i didn't want to betray her but this playthrough im on now im playing as a mage and i dont want to betray the mages when im a mage. I have a warrior also so im most likely going to do pro-templar. Plus i just straight up don't like Carver.. At all

#255
atheelogos

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xiiFezz wrote...
Plus i just straight up don't like Carver.. At all

He grows on you lol

#256
TheCreeper

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atheelogos wrote...

xiiFezz wrote...
Plus i just straight up don't like Carver.. At all

He grows on you lol

Legacy honestly cause me to like Carver a bit more than bethany. He is much more annoying in Act 1 but after that he has better character development than bethany (espically in Legacy)

#257
LobselVith8

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TheCreeper wrote...

Legacy honestly cause me to like Carver a bit more than bethany. He is much more annoying in Act 1 but after that he has better character development than bethany (espically in Legacy)


I think Carver goes through more development as a character in general. Warden Carver takes issue with Hawke if he sides with the templars - which shows that he's a very different person than Templar Carver, who capitulates to Knight-Commander Meredith's edict.

#258
Jedi Master of Orion

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Auridesion wrote...


TL;DR -- or, to sum it all up
:
I think the problem is less about Meredith and Orsino, and more about PC Hawke's class and suriving sibling.  A mage Hawke is more likely to side with the mages, because they are a mage; regardless of Carver's influence who antagonizes you despite being family.  And on the other side of the coin, a non-mage Hawke is still more likely to side with the mages, because their sweet and innocent little sister is a mage, not to mention that their father was a mage.  So, short of giving you the option of keeping both of them, or allowing a decision in game to dictate which sibling survives in the prolouge, I think the only way to make the endgame decision more "grey" is to allow the option to not pick sides before facing the final boss fights.



I did actually unfortunately forget about Bethany in the OP and that was wrong because she was a major factor in my choice.

But Bethany isn't a factor in every game. The impact will be less if she's a  Grey Warden or dead, which is the case in many games.

I think the problem with Meredith's decision is that the game was asking players to make a mostly ethical decision, so if the Right can be justified by some other value it won't won't hold as much weight with the player. Besides, Meredith's reasons also ring hollow to me because one of the purposes of the Templar Order is obstinately to protect innocent mages from bloodthirsty mobs. So if they demand blood from an innocenet party, then the Templars Duty is to protect them, not cave in. Meredith never seemed concerned about the mob when it was against her policies.