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Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War and 4 player co-op multiplayer announced


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#2701
BeefoTheBold

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Il Divo wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Not sure how to explain this any better. There's nothing wrong with choosing that Shepard decides NOT to get laid.

There's something wrong with not writing in that choice, even if it is a line or two of Shepard saying, "There's no time to get laid now. I'll pursue that after this is over."

I can't put it any better than that. Ignoring romance completely is unrealistic. The issue can certainly be disposed of quickly, but the CONCEPT is an essential part of the human condition and therefore having the player make the choice for their Shepard is essential.


I'll do it for you. The issue is choice. My character is defined just as much by what he chooses to do as by what he chooses not to do. Because I chose to romance or not romance Liara, the action has meaning. Even if it results in content that I will never see, that's precisely why it's a choice and why there is meaning behind it. Even if I replayed a Bioware game the same way ten times, making all the same decisions, there is value in knowing that I chose x but ignored y because the option was available. The same cannot be said for multiplayer, which is separate from Shepard's identity. Choosing to engage in (or not engage in) multiplayer content, does nothing for my character as a meaningful decision.


That said, I'm not a fan of romances in Bioware games, and would prefer to see them removed (or expanded) into other character interactions.


Thank you. That's a great way to explain it.

#2702
Il Divo

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iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
I agree that multiplayer might alienate some players, but that is the result of any business decision. We don't have enough statistical evidence to start the "Do people feel alienated by multiplayer"?


108 pages (not including threads that have since been locked) and counting seems like a pretty good start ;)


Which has resulted in a million back and forths, often with the same people. I also believe a statistic was released which indicates that we represent less than 1% of Bioware fans. All decisions lead to endorsement or alienation. That can include a game's setting, voice-acting, or simply shooter-gameplay. If the argument is to have merit, we need to demonstrate that multiplayer has/will alienate fans significantly more than any other feature, to date.

#2703
ratzerman

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So still no word on whether 4 players is the maximum or required number of players?

#2704
JeffZero

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ratzerman wrote...

So still no word on whether 4 players is the maximum or required number of players?


No, we will find out much more tomorrow.

#2705
NOD-INFORMER37

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Zakatak757 wrote...

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

Who else will be checking out Bioware TV at 10 am tommorow? :]


No, I will be at school.

Is it showing off co-op?

Rage and joy will collide and create the perfect storm.


Yeah they're supposed to be releasing more info on this whole thing.

I expect it will either be the most amazing beautiful thing since sliced bread or it'll be utter chaos. xP

#2706
Zanallen

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that not having Shepard address that choice for himself in the writing of the game would be ****y writing.

I'm talking about SHEPARD'S choice, not the PLAYER'S choice. If the issue never was addressed at all in a game that purports to be a well written, character driven, story then that's a MAJOR story/plot blind spot.

What I'm shocked people can't wrap their heads around is the difference between a storyline blind spot and an EXTRA MODE OF PLAY.


And without the DLC, Shepard's choice would be no romances. That is what he will decide in the story. If you buy the DLC, more choices would open up. No crappy writing involved. There will be a point where Shep will make a choice on romance and, if no DLC is installed, that choice defaults to no. There is no need for a blindspot. Your Shep would just choose to not partake in romances just as if you as the player chose for him to not romance anyone.

#2707
DravenShep

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JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

It's like a soap opera isn't it.
The point is you can argue about pros vs cons till your blue in the face. Both sides here are acting like spoiled kids. It may add to the game or it may take away from it.
Live with it, I will.


You can "Live with it." But, Me, I will not stand by and not let my voice be heard about a product that I may or may not be satisfied with. You can remain silent and just take it up the tailpipe without a peep, but that also means you won't have any room to complain because something is not to your liking. EXAMPLE: Order a steak medium well, and get it rare. Would you send it back, or keep quite about it? Same concept. My money goes to a product I want, and if I don't like it, it gets sent back.


Well scream it off the rooftops if it makes you feel better but there not going to change their minds and think ah well we'll let this several month project and large expense go to waste because one group of people decide that they don't want something the don't need to use in the first place.


Instead of using the money for a MP add in for ME3, they could use the money to start developing a SEPERATE MP game BASED on someone else other than Shepard, Oh! Wait! That just sounds too damn easy.


I agree they could have. But they didn't so make the bast of it. If it makes you feel better make a new SP save game for MP and that way you don't have to affect your actual SP games. You can even restart the game if it makes you feel better.



Ya know, I tire of reading and arguing about this BS called MPCO-OP. When and if we get a hands on demo of the SP and the MP, then I will decide whether to keep it or not. If not, it's just 30 seconds to cancel a pre-order.

#2708
Il Divo

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Lard wrote...

Yes you are. And Neverwinter Nights was released in 2002.

Are you seriously dimissing every RPG before that just to make your argument?


You made the claim that RPGs should only be single-player. I provided the quintessential example of RPGs (pen and paper) as an illustration of how this is not true. Unless you don't consider pen and paper to be a representation of RPGs? 

#2709
N7Infernox

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Darkeus wrote...

You really can't compare the romances to tacked on multiplayer. The romances are part of the Single Player whole. Multiplayer is something better suited for another game.


Italicized= objective
Bold= wholly subjective

#2710
fl0wers

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It's weird to me that anyone can complain about something completely optional that is being developed by a separate team so it won't take away from the main single player experience.

If you don't like the idea of co-op in ME3, don't play it. It's optional.

#2711
TheGreenAlloy

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Ancient Metal wrote...

Multiplayer.

Optional to play it.

Mandatory to pay for it.

ME3 would be a full-price game regardless of how many modes it had.

Haven't seen you around. Good to know that you're here.

#2712
Darkeus

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N7Infernox wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

You really can't compare the romances to tacked on multiplayer. The romances are part of the Single Player whole. Multiplayer is something better suited for another game.


Italicized= objective
Bold= wholly subjective


And that is your opinion.

Can you tell me why Mass Effect needs co-op??

#2713
Lard

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Il Divo wrote...

Lard wrote...

Yes you are. And Neverwinter Nights was released in 2002.

Are you seriously dimissing every RPG before that just to make your argument?


You made the claim that RPGs should only be single-player. I provided the quintessential example of RPGs (pen and paper) as an illustration of how this is not true. Unless you don't consider pen and paper to be a representation of RPGs? 


You've provided a single example against how many dozens of single player RPGs?

It is the quintessential example, because up until that point, it was the only one. An exception to the rule doesn't make it the rule.

#2714
Pride Demon

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Lard wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Right, but I wasn't referring to the original CRPG genre. So where does the argument that all RPGs should primarily be single-player come from? That was primarily Neverwinter Night's appeal; that it simulated the role-playing experience of actual DnD.


Il Divo wrote...Re-read my
statement. The basis for CRPGs was in pen and paper. How many
single-player pen and paper games are you aware of?


Yes you are. And Neverwinter Nights was released in 2002.

Are you seriously dimissing every RPG before that just to make your argument?

I may be wrong, and if that's the case correct me, but didn't Icewind Dale (2000) and Baldur's Gate (1998) also have co-op modes? :/

#2715
NOD-INFORMER37

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DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

It's like a soap opera isn't it.
The point is you can argue about pros vs cons till your blue in the face. Both sides here are acting like spoiled kids. It may add to the game or it may take away from it.
Live with it, I will.


You can "Live with it." But, Me, I will not stand by and not let my voice be heard about a product that I may or may not be satisfied with. You can remain silent and just take it up the tailpipe without a peep, but that also means you won't have any room to complain because something is not to your liking. EXAMPLE: Order a steak medium well, and get it rare. Would you send it back, or keep quite about it? Same concept. My money goes to a product I want, and if I don't like it, it gets sent back.


Well scream it off the rooftops if it makes you feel better but there not going to change their minds and think ah well we'll let this several month project and large expense go to waste because one group of people decide that they don't want something the don't need to use in the first place.


Instead of using the money for a MP add in for ME3, they could use the money to start developing a SEPERATE MP game BASED on someone else other than Shepard, Oh! Wait! That just sounds too damn easy.


I agree they could have. But they didn't so make the bast of it. If it makes you feel better make a new SP save game for MP and that way you don't have to affect your actual SP games. You can even restart the game if it makes you feel better.



Ya know, I tire of reading and arguing about this BS called MPCO-OP. When and if we get a hands on demo of the SP and the MP, then I will decide whether to keep it or not. If not, it's just 30 seconds to cancel a pre-order.

You've got somı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨ethin­g on your screen.....

#2716
Lard

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fl0wers wrote...

It's weird to me that anyone can complain about something completely optional that is being developed by a separate team so it won't take away from the main single player experience.

If you don't like the idea of co-op in ME3, don't play it. It's optional.


Why do people continue to repeat this outright lie?

#2717
JD196

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DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

DravenShep wrote...

JD196 wrote...

It's like a soap opera isn't it.
The point is you can argue about pros vs cons till your blue in the face. Both sides here are acting like spoiled kids. It may add to the game or it may take away from it.
Live with it, I will.


You can "Live with it." But, Me, I will not stand by and not let my voice be heard about a product that I may or may not be satisfied with. You can remain silent and just take it up the tailpipe without a peep, but that also means you won't have any room to complain because something is not to your liking. EXAMPLE: Order a steak medium well, and get it rare. Would you send it back, or keep quite about it? Same concept. My money goes to a product I want, and if I don't like it, it gets sent back.


Well scream it off the rooftops if it makes you feel better but there not going to change their minds and think ah well we'll let this several month project and large expense go to waste because one group of people decide that they don't want something the don't need to use in the first place.


Instead of using the money for a MP add in for ME3, they could use the money to start developing a SEPERATE MP game BASED on someone else other than Shepard, Oh! Wait! That just sounds too damn easy.


I agree they could have. But they didn't so make the bast of it. If it makes you feel better make a new SP save game for MP and that way you don't have to affect your actual SP games. You can even restart the game if it makes you feel better.



Ya know, I tire of reading and arguing about this BS called MPCO-OP. When and if we get a hands on demo of the SP and the MP, then I will decide whether to keep it or not. If not, it's just 30 seconds to cancel a pre-order.


Amen to that

#2718
Taciter

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Il Divo wrote...
Which has resulted in a million back and forths, often with the same people. I also believe a statistic was released which indicates that we represent less than 1% of Bioware fans. All decisions lead to endorsement or alienation. That can include a game's setting, voice-acting, or simply shooter-gameplay. If the argument is to have merit, we need to demonstrate that multiplayer has/will alienate fans significantly more than any other feature, to date.


And when better to try it than during the final episode of a traditionally single player saga!

#2719
The Interloper

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75% of this debate is based on people putting forth subjective opinion and speculation passing itself off as objective opinion and confirmed fact.

I am hardly surprised.

#2720
Zanallen

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Il Divo wrote...

I'll do it for you. The issue is choice. My character is defined just as much by what he chooses to do as by what he chooses not to do. Because I chose to romance or not romance Liara, the action has meaning. Even if it results in content that I will never see, that's precisely why it's a choice and why there is meaning behind it. Even if I replayed a Bioware game the same way ten times, making all the same decisions, there is value in knowing that I chose x but ignored y because the option was available. The same cannot be said for multiplayer, which is separate from Shepard's identity. Choosing to engage in (or not engage in) multiplayer content, does nothing for my character as a meaningful decision.


That said, I'm not a fan of romances in Bioware games, and would prefer to see them removed (or expanded) into other character interactions.


And under my proposition, you would be able to make two choices: If you as the player wanted to pay more to experience romance content and then if your Shepard wanted to romance a character or not. If I don't use a romance option and never do, why should I be forced to pay for this content. It is something my Shep will never see and something I will never experience. Why do I have to pay for it then? Just like with multiplayer.

#2721
Zakatak757

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TheGreenAlloy wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Ancient Metal wrote...

Multiplayer.

Optional to play it.

Mandatory to pay for it.

ME3 would be a full-price game regardless of how many modes it had.

Haven't seen you around. Good to know that you're here.


60$ with optional co-op.
60$ with no co-op.

I'll take my chances with the first.

Play 10 playthroughs with a 30 hour campaign.
Play 10 playthroughs with a 30 hour campaign followed by some fun splitscreen.

I'll take chances again. The fact we got a second department of Bioware working on it is a blessing to start with. I can bet taking out multiplayer would not "add resources", because then only Edmonton would be working on it.

Modifié par Zakatak757, 11 octobre 2011 - 10:53 .


#2722
Someone With Mass

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The Interloper wrote...

75% of this debate is based on people putting forth subjective opinion and speculation passing itself off as objective opinion and confirmed fact.

I am hardly surprised.


Duh. It's BSN.

#2723
NOD-INFORMER37

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Now I'm stuck here while my xbox is doing an update

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#2724
Novate

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Ancient Metal wrote...

Spartanburger wrote...

stysiaq wrote...
Also:
If BioWare spent $50 000 000 more on the SP, it would improve it.
However, some argue, that the SP would be about twice as improved with additional $100M.

Seriously, am I the only one who has any kind of remote clue as to how the productivity of staff works?

Once again, I will say it:
TEAM PRODUCTIVITY IS NOT A CAUSATION OF THE AMOUNT OF CASH THE TEAM HAS

If the teams productivity is already at a max, or near max level, throwing more money at it will not increase the productivity of the team. It doesn't matter if I was being paid $10 and hour or $1,000. If I am already working as hard as I can, no amount of money will change how hard I can work.
In creasing staff could work, but that's really something that has to be done before production has started AND takes a while for the new team members levels of productivity to reach their highs.

You want to increase the quality of the SP? Have more people working on it for longer amounts of time. As long as the staff is happy and productive, then they will do good job and no amount of money stupidly thrown at them will do any good. Yes, having more time would cost more, but throwing the money spent on MP at the SP team will not do any real good to improve the SP.

If they did not do multiplayer in the first place, the money spent on MP would still not have gone to the SP team as it is likely that a portion came from EA for the MP component and the SP team already has their budget layed out for them.

The ONLY way that SP could be improved is if, before major production began, BioWare expanded their crew (which they did) and their workspace (which they probably did) and their funding (being one of, if not the, best EA developer have earned them far more funding from them. Having maultiple blockbuster games also helps) and getting other teams to help (DICE is helping out with audio).


Part of your entire premise is false at its core. In your argument you assert money isn't a factor, claiming that if you work hard, you work hard. In essence. However, you then give the assertion that having devs work longer would create a beneficial result.

The problem with this claim is that more hours = higher labor costs. That is money. Unless someone is salary. But will a dev be happy and inspired working on a game 80 hours a week instead of 40 and getting paid the same? Fatigue sets in and its human nature to lag a tad with no incentive. Not discredited devs....btw: I'm certain almost all devs everywhere are dedicated and have inspiration.



I understand that you are saying that without MP the SP is already as good as it is, but how could it be, if it was ready shouldn't the game already be released. Then this MP would be an DLC that those that wanted it could buy it and those that didn't would avoid it. NO HARM DONE, But what their current strategy is to ****** off the Fan base and said that all these extra time spend on Mass Effect 3 has no effect at all on SP, its all because of the MP.
All these months of waiting for something that is entirely OPTIONAL, no extra SP campaigns was added.

Is that what you are trying to say, all the extra funds was spend on something entirely OPTIONAL, instead of puring it into something more Concrete like the Single Player Experiences.
Apparently I don't know much about business because it doesn't sound too good to me.

#2725
Il Divo

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Taciter wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
Which has resulted in a million back and forths, often with the same people. I also believe a statistic was released which indicates that we represent less than 1% of Bioware fans. All decisions lead to endorsement or alienation. That can include a game's setting, voice-acting, or simply shooter-gameplay. If the argument is to have merit, we need to demonstrate that multiplayer has/will alienate fans significantly more than any other feature, to date.


And when better to try it than during the final episode of a traditionally single player saga!


Hey, I never said I liked that they're instituting multiplayer. I would prefer those resources to go to single-player, but that's life. Posted Image