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Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War and 4 player co-op multiplayer announced


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#2976
Taciter

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JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


It doesn't have to... it obvious!

The MP content is just that - content!

#2977
Darkeus

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gamer_girl wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...



-My point was that if multiplayer is removed, then it is denying the people that wanted multiplayer. The people that want a single player game aren't being denied a single player game. Why does the single-player-can't-even-be-in-this-game-even-if-I-don't-have-to-play-it audience hold precedence over the I-want-single-player audience?


Why do you need multiplayer in a traditionally single player RPG?  Why must the "We need multiplayer because it has to have it" crowd get their crappy feature in my Single Player Rpg?




Again you're making it all about you. This is (and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this) an optional feature, and many people seem to want to play with their friends, myself included. "Your" single player RPG isn't going away, correct?


I only asked the same question back to you.  You said why should MP fans lose the feature.  I ask why was it included at all.  Fair question and not about me.  Just because I use my does not mean I am talking about me....  Sigh...


Your question wasn't even valid seeing as single player still exists in ME3. Nobody is taking "Your single player" away. They are adding an option that you don't even need to pursue, for people who enjoy multiplayer.


By why is it there in the first place when not needed which does and may more than you think? It can affect the SIngle player by the devs own admission.  It can add to the Single Player and it may go deeper than that and may influence it more than they are admitting.  Something I don't think you are thinking about.  You just believe the PR faq like gospel.

#2978
Il Divo

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For people who are forgetful: 


Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War

As a bonus to the campaign, BioWare is introducing the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, a new way for players to manage and experience the galactic war from multiple fronts, including a new 4-player co-op mode. The key to saving the galaxy is the “Galactic Readiness” level, measured by Commander Shepard’s ability to apply every possible asset – people, weapons, resources, armies, fleets – in the final battle against the Reapers. Players can impact their game’s Galactic Readiness level in multiple ways via the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, including multiplayer. Other platforms and interfaces will be announced in the coming months. It is important to note that the system is entirely optional and just another way players can have control over your game experience – it is still possible to achieve the optimal, complete ending of the game in Mass Effect 3 through single-player alone.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 octobre 2011 - 12:53 .


#2979
JD196

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shep82 wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?

It doesn't.


Exactly

#2980
Alenkosexualtendencies

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JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


Ok, where is the direct quote from any Bioware representative that states: "mp will affect sp", and will do so in a way which does not give a SP gamer a complete experience? Please give us all the direct and succinct quote regarding this feature which has yet to be shown to the public in a flushed out ready to play manner. 

#2981
Darkeus

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shep82 wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?

It doesn't.


How do we know that past a PR faq rushed to allay fears?  What if it does in the end.

The other side has no real clue either.

#2982
Iakus

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mopotter wrote...

DLC I would not have cared. I would not have purchased it and it would not have effected anything I do. As part of the actually game, I do care. .


Very much this

#2983
shep82

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Taciter wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


It doesn't have to... it obvious!

The MP content is just that - content!

I wish I knew how to post a photo I have a perfect facepalm pic that fits this.

#2984
Darkeus

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You can quote the PR faq but come on. It was put out to deflect anger about the multiplayer.

#2985
didymos1120

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BTW, I'm still waiting for whywhywhywhy to provide a link to this mysterious "leaked MP video" he claims to have seen.

#2986
Zhijn

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Well it was bound to happen. Oh well, if coop is what people want then who am i to judge!.

Question tho.
Is Origin required for multiplayer, or just running Mass Effect 3 in general?.

#2987
Gatt9

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@gamer_girl,  because they're interesting questions...

-Why is it that your opinion on quality is the only opinion on quality? I know many people who think the quality of BW's games has improved, so you can't say that the quality has decreased as if it is a fact.


But not only can I say that,  I can also quantify it.

-First,  we need only look at DA2's scores and user scores.
-Second,  we can venture over to Gamespot and read the comments in response to ME3's MP,  which mirror the comments here.
-Further,  we can definitively show that they're just rehashing what they've done before.  Talk to a person X times and they'll madly fall in love with you.  Talk to them Y times and they'll give you a personal quest.  Heck,  Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 are essentially just the plotline of DAO with different graphics and dialogue.
-We could then compare and contrast ME2's AI to other modern shooters,  until we find an equivalent,  which to be honest is going to be somewhere around the year 2000 in terms of how advanced it is.  Or to put it another way,  it's braindead AI that doesn't actually make any effort to kill you.

So if anyone is making the claim that Bioware quality has improved,  they're either very young and have played few games,  or they're just blindly defending Bioware.  If anything,  the only viable case to be made is that they've remained static,  because there's literally flow charts out there that demonstrate how they're games are all nearly identical in function.

-If you believe the quality of BW's games has decreased, why do you assume it is because of EA? Could it not merely be a coincidence?


That's an easy one.

EA's employees have sued them,  and described the working environment as "An assembly line",  mind you,  that was a current employee at the time,  not a bitter fired one.  EA's driven many big named studios into the ground,  consistently doing nothing other than churning out steadily worsening sequels to something that was once great.  Origin,  Bullfrog,  Westwood,  and many others. 

This is how EA works.

So no,  there's no coincedence here.  EA bought Bioware,  ME2 is suddenly full-on TPS,  DA2 was drastically altered before DAO even released and EA could know how it was received.  EA doesn't make games that Bioware used to make.  EA makes games they think they can sell to the LCD,  quality be damned.

Case-in-point,  EA wants Online Passes so people who buy used games have to pay them,  and they wanted to scan your computer for pirated software reserving the right to sue you for it.  None of this is about making a better game,  all of it is about EA trying to squeeze out money from the Used Game market.

-Explain how it takes away from single player by existing? You don't have to use it and an entirely different team separate from the single player team worked on it. Your logic seems to have some flaws there.


Actually,  the logic flaws are yours.  You're assuming that EA,  out of the kindness of their hearts,  gave Bioware extra money to implement the Online Pass they decreed all their games would have.  I will guarantee you they did not.

EA Budgeted ME3 at X,  some amount of that money was given to the other team to implement Online Pass.  The rest was given to the ME3 team to build what they could.

If EA hadn't commanded Online Pass in everything,  ME3 would've gotten all of X.

Plus,  to make matters worse,  having a whole other team is extremely inefficient.  Because now,  on top of everything else,  you've duplicated administrative positions that also take money out of that budget.  Two lead programmers,  two lead designers,  two project managers,  etc. 

So not only did the money come out of the SP game,  more money came out through duplication of resources.

All to implement Used Game DRM.

-Sure the game doesn't need an alternate way, but then what are BioWare games all about? They give you choices. It's a choose your own adventure, not a take-away-the-alternatives-that-others-may-enjoy-just-because-Darkeus-had-a-minor-embolism adventure.


You keep talking like some massive amount of people are craving multiplayer in their narrative driven single player game.  I'm pretty confident this is not the case,  because otherwise they would've bought the dozen multiplayer games out there already.

Plus,  Bioware games don't give you choices,  they give you illusions today.  Play ME2 as a Paragon and a Renegade,  the entire game is the same,  you just hear different sounds while you get the exact same outcomes.

-This is a major point I have here "that happens to be personal for every person who plays it". If it is personal for each different person, why should something many people (not necessarily you) will enjoy and that could ADD to THEIR personal experience be taken away?


Ok,  first,  we're right back to "How many people are craving a multiplayer component to a single player narrative driven game?".  You really should avoid that whole "Many" people thing,  because even Gamespot's comments are decidedly negative,  and that place was the first on the Fallout 3 fanboat.  If Gamespot's negative on it,  you can be certain this is not going to end well.

Second,  your arguement is flawed.  Someone here was asking for non-sex related relationships where Shepherd "Cuddles",  it would increase his enjoyment,  but is there value in it?  No.  What about the Furries?  No value there either.

So what value is in the MP in ME3?

Nothing.  It doesn't add anything to the game.  It just is EA's attempt at forcing Used Game purchasers to pay them.

-Explain how co-op takes anything at all away from single player. You sure like spamming that statement without any direct proof that it does so.


1.  Where'd the money for it come from?  ME3's budget. 
2.  EA's goal is to force people who buy used games to pay them for it,  so the component will be invasive,  it will require you to participate so that EA gets paid.  You keep assuming this was done for a reason that improves the game,  completely missing EA's Online Pass program.  The fact that there's a "Galaxy Readiness" variable and a bar to show it demonstrates how shoehorned in,  and out of place,  the whole feature is.  We're right back to "Things that should never appear in an RPG".

You're welcome to prove me wrong by linking to evidence that EA decided to spend extra money on a handful of cooperative missions out of the kindness of their hearts.

-Key word think. Yes you THINK the devs are spinning the effect it will have on single player. Do you KNOW that? Nope. Why should we assume that your judgement is accurate?


I do know that.

EA.  Online Pass.  Used Game DRM.  Origins,  scan your computer for pirated software.  There's a pretty clear trend here.  As such,  it's clear what the motivation is,  and from that motivation we can easily make a number of key inferences...

-EA wants Used Game buyers to pay them.
-Used game buyers won't pay them unless they're forced to.
-Easily bypassed restrictions won't make them pay.
-So the restrictions must be integral to completing the game.
-So the MP component must be invasive in order to achieve EA's goal of getting Used Game buyers to pay them.

Why do you think that the CE comes with a "Free Online Pass"?  Heck,  odds are good at this point that not only will it be invasive,  but that regular edition purchasers will have to cough up extra money to get the optimal ending.

Because EA's not worried about quality,  just cash flow.

#2988
Novate

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Il Divo wrote...

For people who are forgetful: 


Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War

As a bonus to the campaign, BioWare is introducing the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, a new way for players to manage and experience the galactic war from multiple fronts, including a new 4-player co-op mode. The key to saving the galaxy is the “Galactic Readiness” level, measured by Commander Shepard’s ability to apply every possible asset – people, weapons, resources, armies, fleets – in the final battle against the Reapers. Players can impact their game’s Galactic Readiness level in multiple ways via the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, including multiplayer. Other platforms and interfaces will be announced in the coming months. It is important to note that the system is entirely optional and just another way players can have control over your game experience – it is still possible to achieve the optimal, complete ending of the game in Mass Effect 3 through single-player alone.



I am just wondering what are they gonna do about DLC's , Will DLC's be an extension of the SP , or will it be the extension of the MP. If its the MP then I am very disappointed, because all the fears of the masses will be coming true where the funds and time are spent on MP and not the SP aspects of the Game.

#2989
JD196

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Taciter wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


It doesn't have to... it obvious!

The MP content is just that - content!


So, all of the exploration missions in ME2 were content and they had no bearing on the main single player story.
If you play MP, single player will be affected. If you don't then it won't.
The end.  

#2990
TheGreenAlloy

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didymos1120 wrote...

*ahem*

didymos1120 wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

The leaked video of MP didn't look so good.



What leaked video of MP?



#2991
gamer_girl

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Darkeus wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...



-My point was that if multiplayer is removed, then it is denying the people that wanted multiplayer. The people that want a single player game aren't being denied a single player game. Why does the single-player-can't-even-be-in-this-game-even-if-I-don't-have-to-play-it audience hold precedence over the I-want-single-player audience?


Why do you need multiplayer in a traditionally single player RPG?  Why must the "We need multiplayer because it has to have it" crowd get their crappy feature in my Single Player Rpg?




Again you're making it all about you. This is (and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this) an optional feature, and many people seem to want to play with their friends, myself included. "Your" single player RPG isn't going away, correct?


I only asked the same question back to you.  You said why should MP fans lose the feature.  I ask why was it included at all.  Fair question and not about me.  Just because I use my does not mean I am talking about me....  Sigh...


Your question wasn't even valid seeing as single player still exists in ME3. Nobody is taking "Your single player" away. They are adding an option that you don't even need to pursue, for people who enjoy multiplayer.


By why is it there in the first place when not needed which does and may more than you think? It can affect the SIngle player by the devs own admission.  It can add to the Single Player and it may go deeper than that and may influence it more than they are admitting.  Something I don't think you are thinking about.  You just believe the PR faq like gospel.


You make far too many assumptions. Might doesn't mean it will be more of an effect than the devs are saying. The best conclusion to draw right now is that at the very least what the devs say is true, because why would they say something that was a total fabrication? To assume that there MUST be more to it than what they say is ridiculous, and until more features are revealed, I'll believe that at the bare minimum, what that faq says is true.

#2992
tishyw

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gamer_girl wrote...

-My point was that if multiplayer is removed, then it is denying the people that wanted multiplayer. The people that want a single player game aren't being denied a single player game. Why does the single-player-can't-even-be-in-this-game-even-if-I-don't-have-to-play-it audience hold precedence over the I-want-single-player audience?

The simple answer to this is because that's how it was originally planned, as a single player trilogy.
No I know that things change, but for many of us who've played since ME1 the addition of multi-player to the final part feels like Bioware are selling out (note I said many, not all).

You also need to keep in mind that a lot of Biowares long time fans are starting to feel rejected by a lot of the decisions they've been making lately, the crapfest that was DA2 being a big part of that.  The devs trying to defend DA2 by saying that there was nothing wrong with the game, it's just that the fans don't like change being another.  To many this is just another example of how Bioware appear to be trying to get rid of their old fans and capture the Call of Duty ones.

#2993
TheRealJayDee

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Novate wrote...

You do realize that is just PR right.
Because once the game goes live, and people are angry on the lacking of Single Player experiences, immediately there will be Fans defending that its because you didn't experience the MP. And the reasoning behind that argument is because MP was build into the SP, so even thought you might feel that the SP is lacking, its a complete experience with the MP. So MP is no longer an OPTION, its part of the game.

There are just too many posts of people saying they will wait and see, and that is just like Dejavu, when the first rumor of Multiplayer mode was introduced. Immediately there was tons of fans defending Bioware on that they will never ruin the final Chapter in their Epic Trilogy. And that just wait and you will see that the secret they were building on was for the Single Player Experiences and not some Co-op.

I have seen tons and tons of posts before the announcement that people was calling those that post negative comments on getting Multiplayer Mode in ME3 stupid, and should just wait and see. Now we have waited , and we have seen what they are doing. Are you still gonna wait and see?? Wait till ME3 gets a bad review , wait till its too late to make any final adjustments?? Be vocal , let Bioware know what fans are thinking, don't be silent and wait for your game to fall.

PS: i do think Co-op would be fun, I just wished they would have waited till ME3 was released and then Release a Mass Effect 4 CO-OP: aftermath of the Wa, now that would have been Epic in Scale



I can't help but agree very much with this statement.

#2994
TheGreenAlloy

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Taciter wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


It doesn't have to... it obvious!

The MP content is just that - content!

Yep. MP content. Not SP content. MP.

#2995
didymos1120

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Darkeus wrote...

You can quote the PR faq but come on. It was put out to deflect anger about the multiplayer.


OK, fine.  Let's throw that out.  Problem is, excluding that from evidence doesn't exactly help the "WE MUST PLAY THE MP! IT'S NECESSARY!" side.  It leaves them in exactly the same place: entirely lacking any evidence for their claim.

#2996
shep82

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Novate wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

For people who are forgetful: 


Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War

As a bonus to the campaign, BioWare is introducing the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, a new way for players to manage and experience the galactic war from multiple fronts, including a new 4-player co-op mode. The key to saving the galaxy is the “Galactic Readiness” level, measured by Commander Shepard’s ability to apply every possible asset – people, weapons, resources, armies, fleets – in the final battle against the Reapers. Players can impact their game’s Galactic Readiness level in multiple ways via the Mass Effect 3: Galaxy at War system, including multiplayer. Other platforms and interfaces will be announced in the coming months. It is important to note that the system is entirely optional and just another way players can have control over your game experience – it is still possible to achieve the optimal, complete ending of the game in Mass Effect 3 through single-player alone.



I am just wondering what are they gonna do about DLC's , Will DLC's be an extension of the SP , or will it be the extension of the MP. If its the MP then I am very disappointed, because all the fears of the masses will be coming true where the funds and time are spent on MP and not the SP aspects of the Game.

That is my only fear but I doubt that would happen.

#2997
Il Divo

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Novate wrote...

I am just wondering what are they gonna do about DLC's , Will DLC's be an extension of the SP , or will it be the extension of the MP. If its the MP then I am very disappointed, because all the fears of the masses will be coming true where the funds and time are spent on MP and not the SP aspects of the Game.


Fair point, but this is actually one installment where I was hoping there wouldn't be any significant quest/story-based dlc to deal with. With ME3, I actually want Bioware to cut back on the "side quests" similar to Overlord and Bringing Down the Sky. So I understand your concern and it makes sense, but I think I would be more worried if this were DA2 or Origins, for example.

#2998
Brownfinger

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I don't envy the people who have to trudge through this muck of misguided angst and have to moderate it.

I'm excited for this. Bioware has earned enough good will from me through their products that they wouldn't be doing this if they weren't being true to the franchise and maintaining the crux of what makes Mass Effect so good.

#2999
Taciter

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shep82 wrote...

Taciter wrote...

JD196 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

They've already admitted that MP will affect SP experience. What the MP supporters don't seem to be able to get is that people like me on this board don't care that it's optional. What bothers us is that in order to experience everything there is to experience in SP, we MUST engage in MP, which we have no interest in doing. Add to that the recent string of disappointments (DA2, Witch Hunt, MMO KOTOR) and these are troubling times for some of us who love many BioWare games and previously couldn't wait to play the end of the ME saga. I don't think these are unrealistic concerns.


Where does it say that to experience all of SP you have to play MP?


It doesn't have to... it obvious!

The MP content is just that - content!

I wish I knew how to post a photo I have a perfect facepalm pic that fits this.


I wish I had a photo of a baboon with a blank expression... you'd could revel in solidarity!

#3000
JD196

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tishyw wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

-My point was that if multiplayer is removed, then it is denying the people that wanted multiplayer. The people that want a single player game aren't being denied a single player game. Why does the single-player-can't-even-be-in-this-game-even-if-I-don't-have-to-play-it audience hold precedence over the I-want-single-player audience?

The simple answer to this is because that's how it was originally planned, as a single player trilogy.
No I know that things change, but for many of us who've played since ME1 the addition of multi-player to the final part feels like Bioware are selling out (note I said many, not all).

You also need to keep in mind that a lot of Biowares long time fans are starting to feel rejected by a lot of the decisions they've been making lately, the crapfest that was DA2 being a big part of that.  The devs trying to defend DA2 by saying that there was nothing wrong with the game, it's just that the fans don't like change being another.  To many this is just another example of how Bioware appear to be trying to get rid of their old fans and capture the Call of Duty ones.



I liked DA2 as a game but as a sequal tto DAO it failed,