245 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

Not really Mass Effect 3 related. Moving to our Off-Topic forum.

[Teredan]

Phaelducan wrote...

It is unfounded, though. If ME3 could add a TON of increased market desirability and profits by adding Ham to the menu. Nothing else has changed, they just added Ham (multiplayer) by hiring a second cook (dev team). It's 100% additive, nothing was removed from the original menu. How is that not a good thing when TONS of people like Ham (cooperative MP).

"If". But the thing is we know about how this strategy panned out in games like Dead Space 2 which didn't increase its fanbase just for having a MP but rather for being a stellar SP game. So it's pretty reasonable to have doubts and being negative about it given such precedence

[billy the squid]

*shrugs* maybe, insufficient data.

[Captain_Obvious]

Teredan wrote...

It's still wrong.

I make it right. You visit this one restaurant that serves your favourite food. Now the cook thinks to get more guest he has to upgrade his dishes including your favourite food. As it turns out he makes it "better" with an ingredient that you don't like and he refuses to make it without it because this restaurant doesn't have the compacity to accomodate for everyones little changes. Now this makes you sad rightly so and the only thing you can do is find a new restaurant. 

And here it is. What if you had the chance to voice your opinion before this change occured? Wouldn't you do so?
That's all that's there to this. I mean if I don't like ME3 direction I'll take it like a normal person and probably won't buy Bioware games anymore. It's not that unreasonable?

PS: Of course there are some part even in this analogy that are pretty shabby (I mean could bring in an example where there's a second dish that had to be cut because of the expenses of that new special ingredient but that's going to far) but I hope you get the argument I try to make which is that the MP negative stance isn't that unfounded as some people try to make it out to be.

And lastly only because I'm against MP doesn't mean I can't be happy for everyone else who loves it.
I am. But at the same time I'm sad knowing that my SP could maybe have been even better and I just think that there will be more people thinking that way when the game releases. It may be petty but it's also human.

I have no problem with your example.  I would certainly voice my opinion, but I would realize that there may be a multitude of reasons, none of which concern me, that my opinion may not be taken into account.  What I do have a problem with is people arguing that it's the end the gaming world as we know it, that things will never be the same, that Bioware some how sold me out personally as a gamer, et cetera.  Sure, it makes you kinda sad that you have to find a new restaurant.  Does it make you sad enough that you spew vitriol and hyperbole to the restaurant owers, staff, and other customers because you were not part of the group that was specifically catered to?  Of course not, you just go find another restaurant.  Just go find another game or developer if it makes you that angry.  Save the vitriol for something that affects more than a hobby.     

*Please understand I use the term "you" to refer to people who have this view, and not you specifically.  I understand you were just trying to answer my analogy. 

[Teredan]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I have no problem with your example.  I would certainly voice my opinion, but I would realize that there may be a multitude of reasons, none of which concern me, that my opinion may not be taken into account.  What I do have a problem with is people arguing that it's the end the gaming world as we know it, that things will never be the same, that Bioware some how sold me out personally as a gamer, et cetera.  Sure, it makes you kinda sad that you have to find a new restaurant.  Does it make you sad enough that you spew vitriol and hyperbole to the restaurant owers, staff, and other customers because you were not part of the group that was specifically catered to?  Of course not, you just go find another restaurant.  Just go find another game or developer if it makes you that angry.  Save the vitriol for something that affects more than a hobby.     

*Please understand I use the term "you" to refer to people who have this view, and not you specifically.  I understand you were just trying to answer my analogy. 

Well, I think were seeing eye to eye then. I pretty much agree with you about how some people blow things out of proportion without sense for reason. So it's always nice to have arguments with reasonable people like you, so thank you

[Captain_Obvious]

Teredan wrote...

Well, I think were seeing eye to eye then. I pretty much agree with you about how some people blow things out of proportion without sense for reason. So it's always nice to have arguments with reasonable people like you, so thank you

I thought it was more of a polite discussion than an argument.



And you're welcome. 

[Phaelducan]

Teredan wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

It is unfounded, though. If ME3 could add a TON of increased market desirability and profits by adding Ham to the menu. Nothing else has changed, they just added Ham (multiplayer) by hiring a second cook (dev team). It's 100% additive, nothing was removed from the original menu. How is that not a good thing when TONS of people like Ham (cooperative MP).

"If". But the thing is we know about how this strategy panned out in games like Dead Space 2 which didn't increase its fanbase just for having a MP but rather for being a stellar SP game. So it's pretty reasonable to have doubts and being negative about it given such precedence

You think it's reasonable, I do not. Again, purely additive. Nothing was removed from the SP development process, and no resources were allocated from SP. Targetting the risk to the SP game is a straw man in this case, as it's a completely separate entity.

[Ryzaki]

Heather Cline wrote...

I disagree about CD Projekt and Bethesda. Never liked any of those companies games.

I am however upset that Casey Hudson stated officially on Bioware Pulse at one of the conventions that there was to be no Multi-player/Co-op for ME3. Then Bioware turns around and tells us different. I hate being lied to. Instead of lying to people just come out and state what you are going to do and do it. Don't say one thing and turn around and become liars by doing something completely the opposite of what you stated.

I guess I'm old school and believe that when you say something like Hudson did in public at a game convention that was recorded and that almost everyone on BSN saw, that they should stick to it. I believe a promise is a promise and unless there are mitigating circumstance in which this case there are none, you should never break a promise or turn back on what you've told someone.

This is what irks me the most. I'm no fan of multiplayer and no fan of co-op games this is true. I could overlook the fact that it's in the game if not for the fact that I've had bad experiences with multi-player and co-op and that we were lied to again. Like ME2 were we were promised s/s romances for both genders then it was all cut out cause Hudson decided to do so.

I'm tired of being lied to by Bioware. This is what gets me the most, being lied to.

This. 

I'm sick of the lying. So sick of it. 

[Teredan]

Phaelducan wrote...

You think it's reasonable, I do not.

Well if that's what it boils down to now sense continuing this right?

Modifié par Teredan, 11 octobre 2011 - 05:28 .

[IronSabbath88]

Why? Because multiplayer is in ME3? Because he told us a little white lie (which is debatable, what he's truly said has never been confirmed nor denied)

Pfft, have some faith in BioWare for once. Everytime they try to do something new, people go bat**** crazy claiming they're losing it. If game developers didn't take risks, gaming would be long dead by now.

[Teredan]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Why? Because multiplayer is in ME3? Because he told us a little white lie (which is debatable, what he's truly said has never been confirmed nor denied)

Pfft, have some faith in BioWare for once. Everytime they try to do something new, people go bat**** crazy claiming they're losing it. If game developers didn't take risks, gaming would be long dead by now.

But they already screwed me over with DA2. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me so no thank you.
No faith until I played ME3 and confirm for myself that it's as great as I hope it to be

[IronSabbath88]

*sigh* For the last time...

Not. The. Same. Development. Team.

[Teredan]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

*sigh* For the last time...

Not. The. Same. Development. Team.

True but it was Bioware as a whole that decided the direction DA2 took.
Even if the development teams are different big decision are still made from Bioware as a whole.
Not from EA (as they recently stated again).

Given that early statements were that ME3 wouldn't have MP it's pretty logical to assume that this was a decision made not from the ME team alone but Bioware in general.

[mauro2222]

Raanz wrote...

B.) feel tacked on, and turn into a bunch of Garrus' fighting each other in an abandoned warehouse somewhere.

Turians, Turians everywhere!!!

Modifié par mauro2222, 11 octobre 2011 - 05:42 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Phaelducan wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I have always been a fan of Bioware's games and Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favourite story driven games of all time, Dragon Age: Origins is not far behind.
With the extreme disappointment which was Dragon Age 2 (to completely change and redesign the game, combat, graphics, story i.e nothing to do with wardens) i was left disappointed by the game and did not expect such a mediocre game from Bioware, I put it down to a hiccup.
Now with the news of kinect and multiplayer in Mass Effect 3 i believe my fears are being confirmed that Bioware has stopped being the story driven RPG developers i use to love. I do not believe it is EA that has turned Bioware into this, i believe Bioware have just become greedy and want a larger slice of the market and a wider audience (they were quoted on saying they want the COD audience) but by doing this they seem to be completely alienating and betraying the fans that made them what they are today and the fans who have followed them for years.
I now believe Bioware is a good developer, not a godlike developer who make games they believe in and love. They are now making games for money and profit like many other good developers do. Bioware seem to no longer be in the elite of development studios.
I am sure Mass Effect 3 will be a good game as was Dragon Age 2, but by standards Bioware set, good is a severe disappointment from this once great studio. Thank god we still have Bethesda.

No. They are on the rise in terms of profitability, market share, critical acclaim, and new forms of games and game modes.

If you don't like it, your gig, but the other 10 million or so of us who are going to play and like ME3 are a little tired of the whining.

10 million ?  I don't think so.

Multi-platform? I bet it's pretty close. It will be more than 7.

Lower.

[Phaelducan]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I have always been a fan of Bioware's games and Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favourite story driven games of all time, Dragon Age: Origins is not far behind.
With the extreme disappointment which was Dragon Age 2 (to completely change and redesign the game, combat, graphics, story i.e nothing to do with wardens) i was left disappointed by the game and did not expect such a mediocre game from Bioware, I put it down to a hiccup.
Now with the news of kinect and multiplayer in Mass Effect 3 i believe my fears are being confirmed that Bioware has stopped being the story driven RPG developers i use to love. I do not believe it is EA that has turned Bioware into this, i believe Bioware have just become greedy and want a larger slice of the market and a wider audience (they were quoted on saying they want the COD audience) but by doing this they seem to be completely alienating and betraying the fans that made them what they are today and the fans who have followed them for years.
I now believe Bioware is a good developer, not a godlike developer who make games they believe in and love. They are now making games for money and profit like many other good developers do. Bioware seem to no longer be in the elite of development studios.
I am sure Mass Effect 3 will be a good game as was Dragon Age 2, but by standards Bioware set, good is a severe disappointment from this once great studio. Thank god we still have Bethesda.

No. They are on the rise in terms of profitability, market share, critical acclaim, and new forms of games and game modes.

If you don't like it, your gig, but the other 10 million or so of us who are going to play and like ME3 are a little tired of the whining.

10 million ?  I don't think so.

Multi-platform? I bet it's pretty close. It will be more than 7.

Lower.

Go play Baldur's Gate II and stop trolling the internet.

[Addai]

It's certainly true that almost nothing that's come out of the DA universe since Origins has interested me, especially the latest stuff with the anime, Facebook game and web series. Kinect and MMO is also the anti-fun as far as I'm concerned. I just ignore such things, but I think it's true that it could end up being distractions that take away from the quality of the singler-player RPGs. It's great to draw in new audiences, but then those audiences expect something different than the things I value in a RPG, and the devs are creating for them, so the cycle continues.

This is evident to me in DA's writing which since Origins has a tone that seems much different to me than the original game, and is making me start to think my liking of that game was a fluke and more to do with the books it drew inspiration from (Song of Ice and Fire) than the actual writing team. Which is fine- different strokes etc. I just need to adjust my expectations that I'm going to consume them more like a throwaway movie than a literary experience that really captures me- which is how I found DAO.

[mousestalker]

I've heard the new chairs at the Bioware headquarters in Edmonton are really comfortable. From all accounts the OP missed the actual state of Bioware by one small letter.

Bioware is a developer in recline.

[whywhywhywhy]

Phaelducan wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I have always been a fan of Bioware's games and Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favourite story driven games of all time, Dragon Age: Origins is not far behind.
With the extreme disappointment which was Dragon Age 2 (to completely change and redesign the game, combat, graphics, story i.e nothing to do with wardens) i was left disappointed by the game and did not expect such a mediocre game from Bioware, I put it down to a hiccup.
Now with the news of kinect and multiplayer in Mass Effect 3 i believe my fears are being confirmed that Bioware has stopped being the story driven RPG developers i use to love. I do not believe it is EA that has turned Bioware into this, i believe Bioware have just become greedy and want a larger slice of the market and a wider audience (they were quoted on saying they want the COD audience) but by doing this they seem to be completely alienating and betraying the fans that made them what they are today and the fans who have followed them for years.
I now believe Bioware is a good developer, not a godlike developer who make games they believe in and love. They are now making games for money and profit like many other good developers do. Bioware seem to no longer be in the elite of development studios.
I am sure Mass Effect 3 will be a good game as was Dragon Age 2, but by standards Bioware set, good is a severe disappointment from this once great studio. Thank god we still have Bethesda.

No. They are on the rise in terms of profitability, market share, critical acclaim, and new forms of games and game modes.

If you don't like it, your gig, but the other 10 million or so of us who are going to play and like ME3 are a little tired of the whining.

10 million ?  I don't think so.

Multi-platform? I bet it's pretty close. It will be more than 7.

Lower.

Go play Baldur's Gate II and stop trolling the internet.

I'm a troll because I think it'll sell less ?  Your just immature.  Oh and if you have a legal copy of baldur's gate II send it to me and I'll check it out.  Thanks.

[happy_daiz]

mousestalker wrote...

I've heard the new chairs at the Bioware headquarters in Edmonton are really comfortable. From all accounts the OP missed the actual state of Bioware by one small letter.

Bioware is a developer in recline.

 If the chairs are that great, can you blame them? 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 11 octobre 2011 - 09:16 .

[Chromie]

[quote]whywhywhywhy wrote...
[/quote]I'm a troll because I think it'll sell less ?  Your just immature.  Oh and if you have a legal copy of baldur's gate II send it to me and I'll check it out.  Thanks.
[/quote]

Here download it now.

Here I sent it it just happens to have a $10 COD

[whywhywhywhy]

I'm afraid your recommendation isn't enough for me to purchase the game, if you want me to play it feel free to buy me a copy. Thanks

[marshalleck]

Bioware has been in decline ever since they shifted focus to shoehorning romances into their games.

[Stanley Woo]

We have, actually. Or wait, since we stopped making adventure games. Or wait, since we started making RPGs. Or wait, since we started doing more action RPGs. Or wait, since we started doing premium modules. Or wait, since we stopped doing D&D games. Or wait, since we decided to start making sci-fi games. Or wait, since we got bought by EA.

If you really think about it, according to the internet, we've been "declining" since the first Baldur's Gate.