13 réponses à ce sujet

[Indoctrination]

I just want to say, thank you BioWare for making such a great quest. Everything about it was satisfying, especially the length. I think MOTA lasted like four and a half hours for me, which is great value for my money. There was ots of sidequests, challenging fights, puzzles, loot, great dialogue, an awesome plot twist, and just plenty of fun in general.

The stealth sections felt a little slow at somepoints due to Hawke's slow creeping walk, but that was to be expected. I wouldn't mind seeing more stuff like this in future content. I also really enjoyed all of the cameos at the party. It was nice seeing some old faces from Origins (even some of the ones that I didn't like; I won't spoil anything but anyone who has played through the quest can guess which loud whiner I may be referring to, ahem).

A suggestion for future quests: A lot of us have a large pile of cash that we'll never spend in the post game. In future quests, why not add ways to let us spend all of that gold? You could add in stuff like bribing guards, expensive new super items to buy, etc, etc.

Thanks again to everyone at BioWare who was involved in the development of this great DLC.

[John Epler]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Keep it coming!

Making this a sticky.

[John Epler]

TeenZombie wrote...

nikkylee wrote...

Not to go all fangirl, but I'm curious about the Fenris romance with this. Most of his dialog in act 3 refers to him having left and that's it, even if you've completed the final Questioning Beliefs and are "back together". If it was a year prior, does that mean you're still going to be in "exclusive but not actually a couple" limbo? I don't mind it, really. Just curious and fishing for goodies cause I'm stuck at work until tonight. *grump*

I only got one banter that could be classified as "romantic" for a post-game Fenris as LI, but it could also be interpreted as just caring during that three year hiatus.  It was enough to go D'AWW, but that might just be me.  With Fenris, he's so emotionally closed, even a seemingly minor comment of concern is nice.

On the topic of feedback:  I really enjoyed this DLC.  I loved the new areas, the story and banter was fun, and YAY PUZZLES.  The boss fight was the right balance when it came to needing strategy vs. frustration.  

My only two quibbles were:  the cameos at the party were pointless (and, as seen elsewhere, there's one that people are actively avoiding), and F!Hawke's party shirt could have been fitted to a female body better.  I really, really don't like it when it feels like playing a female character was an afterthought.  Yeah, it's just party clothes that we'll never use again, but I can predict that other femHawke players will notice and either wish that she got a dress, or wish that her shirt didn't look so ill-fitted.  

I didn't feel like the stealth portion was too slow (if it's not your style, you can always go back and fight your way through), and I'd really like to see a mechanic like this for rogues in DA3.

I'll take full responsibility for femHawke not having a skirt or a dress. The problem with that sort of clothing is that it requires a rather different set of animations to look A) good and not too Basic Instinct'ish. Given the animation budget we had for the DLC, I requested that we just give her the same sort of clothes as Male Hawke to sidestep that problem, as I felt the time would be better spent elsewhere. It's a fair point, though, and as with all things there were definite sacrifices made as a result of the decision.

[David Gaider]

Siduri wrote...
Prediction? SUSTAINED.

This DLC makes it painfully (and I mean PAINFULLY) clear that nobody involved cared about those playing female characters. Yeah. I don't like feeling like an afterthought either.

It's awfully ironic that I was fully on-board for DA2, and it's *this* DLC that's making consider bailing out on the franchise. So, thanks for that, John Epler! GOOD CALL.

You know, I can certainly get why you might have wanted a pretty dress. But to extrapolate from this that all female gamers would have wanted said pretty dress (which simply isn't true) and that the lack of that dress constitutes a lack of caring for female gamers is taking it a bit far.

Be angry about it for your own sake, if you wish, but insofar as how much we care about our female gaming audience I think we can stand by our track record.

And sorry you didn't get your dress. I would have put you in taffeta.

[David Gaider]

Siduri wrote...
But yeah, I think most of us would have liked to have seen our female characters get at least the same kind of attention from the art department that the NPC got.

Is that really out of line? Really?

I imagine that, short of putting femHawke in a walk-in closet with a selection of outfits to choose from, there's probably nothing we could have put her in that wouldn't have been considered ugly to someone. And even then, probably.

And I thought the suit looked pretty good on a female PC, anyhow. The taffeta would've been better, of course, especially if we could add a rustle-rustle noise whenever she walked around.

[David Gaider]

Just a reminder to keep spoilers out of this forum, please.

[David Gaider]

Siduri wrote...
*faints from happiness*

But you're being disingenuous, surely that's obvious? Nobody is asking for "a walk-in closet with a selection of outfits to choose from." We're asking for a similar proportion of resources that are spent on NPCs. I don't think any girl gamer is unaware of the fact that we're always going in second place. Because of our market share, obviously male Hawke will get the art resources first.

What I object to is being in third place, behind an NPC. I object to the fact that the art resources were spent on a non player character before they were spent on girl gamers. Tallis got a whole new outfit customized to her figure. Fem!Hawke had to make do with the male Hawke's leftovers, awkwardly fitted to her. That's not right. It does basically tell female gamers (and those male gamers who like to pilot female PCs) that we rank behind the AI in terms of priority.

Uh-huh. I wasn't suggesting you were asking for a walk-in closet, but rather that even if we did put Tallis' outfit on the player instead, there would still be people like yourself complaining about it. And if we did do that, then what would Tallis wear? We had limited resources and needed to make sure both Tallis and the PC had something that wasn't armor to wear to the party.

You thought it wasn't pretty enough. Got it. Trying to make this about "girl gamers being put third" is silly, however. You're not all girl gamers-- there were, in fact, women on our staff who weren't at all on holiday nor stricken by a terrible fever and thought the outfit looked just fine. Frankly, it's a little insulting to suggest otherwise.

And, to be non-disingenuous, if that's your biggest complaint, I think we'll be able to sleep at night.

Modifié par David Gaider, 12 octobre 2011 - 01:02 .

[David Gaider]

Siduri wrote...
-- for me to say, in what I thought was a pretty sane and respectful way, "hey, actually, this one thing seriously ticked me off," and to be answered with "well you guys would've been pissed about something anyway, there's no making you people happy" --

Now who's being disingenuous?

That's neither what I said nor what I meant. If you wish to take it that way, I suppose that's your call, but all I said was that while I understand your desire for clothing you personally found more appealing that's not going to be true for everyone... and certainly it's not true for all female gamers, which you attempted to speak on behalf of.

Indeed, you implied that any girl who does (such as those who might work at BioWare) must have been absent or ill to think such a thing. That's a little insulting, as I said, and I'm calling you on it.

I think we'd have been more than happy to have had the resources to give femHawke a unique outfit (we'll ignore just which unique outfit that would have been, and whether or not that would actually make anyone happier). Settling for having an outfit that works for both genders is not indicative of a lower priority towards female gamers in general... and I'd really hope the majority of female gamers don't place such a high priority on their clothing that the lack of an outfit pretty enough to please everyone overrides everything else we do to be inclusive.

I can say that without claiming your personal opinion is invalid, or suggesting anything about your character or current state of being. Thanks and good day-- I think I'm done talking about this particular topic now.

Modifié par David Gaider, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[David Gaider]

nikkylee wrote...
Never mind that the whole "female, Qunari, but also a fighter" kind of annoyed me. Why is she the exception to the rule, if not just because she's super special Tallis? Sten grows to respect the Warden yes, but he's still pretty lost at the start of Origins. The Arishok basically says, "I'm not fighting a woman." when Fenris first suggests a duel. 

There seems to be an assumption here that female Qunari are incapable of fighting.

They do not become part of the warriors that serve under the Arishok, the purpose for whom is to do battle. A Ben'Hassreth is not a warrior. Doing battle is not their purpose. Their purpose is as watchdogs, spies and enforcers... and when it comes to the part about spies, the Qunari are not above recognizing that other races serve far better in certain roles when it comes to operating in foreign lands. They do not waste resources, but instead put the person best suited to their role in the correct place.

Had I realized people had made this particular leap, I might have added a "I thought Qunari women didn't fight?" question to Hawke (even though Tallis mentions she didn't begin her life as Qunari). I guess I assumed that people would see this as something new we've revealed about the Ben-Hassreth, which we haven't discussed much previously, rather than jumping to the conclusion that this is a contradiction. But there you go.

[David Gaider]

Melca36 wrote...
I watched Redemption and perhaps I got the wrong impression but it made me assume Tallis is not her name but a rank...the way Sten is.  

Was I right? Or Wrong?

Not a rank per se, but certainly a description of her position within the Ben-Hassreth-- who, by the way, fall under the Ariqun. Thus a soldier within the Qunari would consider them as priests.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
When I first heard that
Tallis was Ben-Hassrath in the DLC, I figured that the Qunari did in
fact define "fight" and "do battle" differently and very oddly. Like
they apply fighting only to their soldiers, but when Ben-Hassrath fight
they don't see it as wartime fighting, so the Ben-Hassrath doesn't
become a male in the eyes of the Qunari if she's a female.

That's correct. It says more about the strict definitions that the Qunari apply to everything, I'm sure, and that applies to splitting hairs between warriors (the "real' fighters) and others who might need to fight even if that's not their purpose.

And, to be clear, Sten would have seen the Grey Wardens as an army-- thus anyone who was a Grey Warden was clearly a warrior, meant to do battle against the darkspawn.

Modifié par David Gaider, 12 octobre 2011 - 09:56 .

[David Gaider]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
question: Do male Ben-Hassrath and female Ben-Hassrath have different methods of "fighting", as it were? Like would a male resort to outright attacking someone for their goal or intimidating them, while a female would use persuasion, cunning, stealth, and rogue-like arts for their goal?

No-- like with the other roles in Qunari society, you're defined by it rather than defined by your gender. You're gender can limit which role you can assume

The oddity, honestly, is that male Qunari can join the Ben-Hassrath, considering that they fall under the priesthood... not that a female Qunari can fight when called on to do so.

I'm actually surprised that the Ben-Hassrath -- who from Sten's own words at the time sounded pretty violent by nature (though I know that's only how they sounded, not how they actually act) -- have a name that translates to something.... serene and beautiful even.

The Qunari don't consider the Ben-Hassrath violent by nature. They consider them a necessary part of maintaining unity... which they consider to be a strength. If anything, they're leaders. How close Tallis is to the Ben-Hassrath hierarchy, however, is something you'll have to figure out for yourselves.

[David Gaider]

nikkylee wrote...
Thank you, Mr. Gaider, for clarifying. I don't think it was a giant leap to jump to the conclusion that I did, though. I don't have the codex memorized, so what I remember is Sten saying "You cannot be a woman and a Grey Warden. Women are priests, merchants, etc..." and the Arishok saying, "I won't fight a woman." I would assume (based on friends who mentioned the same conversations and who spend less time on the forums/codex than I do) that most people don't just figure out right away that Oh, warrior is one thing. Assassin is TOTALLY different.

I don't begrudge you the interpretation-- I would just hope that, when we reveal new information on things we haven't discussed much previously-- you take it as new information and not a contradiction because it doesn't match your interpretation... or assume that it was done just so Felicia Day could be an ass-kicking Qunari.

[David Gaider]

tmp7704 wrote...
But isn't then rather odd the job of assassin is included in this particular subset of the qunari society, rather than assigning it to violence oriented group? What reasoning do they use for that?

To the Qunari, the purpose is everything. What we would call an assassin is someone who's sent out to kill people... the killing is the purpose. A Ben-Hassrath might be an assassin, but the killing would only be incidental to their purpose. The Ben-Hassrath exist to defend the faith, nothing more.

At any rate, this isn't the thread to get into a discussion about the Qunari. The quest and story forum is best for that. I just wanted to clear up the idea that this was a contradiction.

Modifié par David Gaider, 12 octobre 2011 - 10:22 .

[David Gaider]

nikkylee wrote...
I don't know Felicia Day beyond her Buffy persona, so hearing the DLC was based off of a character she created I assumed she created this aspect as well, just to be extra special. Self-inserts tend to do that.

Granted. When the idea was first floated, we sent Felicia several basic concepts of characters we thought could work, and which would add something to the world-- a female, elven Ben-Hassrath was one of them. She liked that and developed Tallis from that point.

Anyway, overall I did like the DLC at least as much as I liked DA2 (12 Hawkes later, I pretty much like it a lot), and I really appreciate that everyone at Bioware generally tries to answer what they are able to.

I don't see every post, but I'll answer when I can. Glad you liked the DLC.