Mark of the Assassin feedback
#476
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 04:34
A big negative, however, was the lack of an end decision. Namely, not being able to take away a certain item from someone was frankly unacceptable.
#477
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:03
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
3)the new maps -- specifically the forest locales. They look like an actual forest using DAII's engine. However there were some downsides, which I'll address in the Cons section. That's not to say though that the Chateau wasn't amazing. It was. But the forest really got me.
The forest had its moments definitely and its definitely better than anything in DA2. But, compared to other games from DA's competition, its still pretty basic looking. It just dawned on me what it reminded me of- at least the early hunting grounds part- its a golf course. The grass and ground is completely level and flat with basically linear paths and trees flanking you. Why can't BioWare make more wide open levels instead of linear paths?
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Though Bioware, you really do need to do some work on Bann Teagan and Isolde. Isolde's face is a bit too chubby and Bann Teagan looks nothing like his Origins self. His hair is too bright when it was originally darker and his stubble is almost nonexistent as well as being a different color. His skin should also be tan a bit more and his nose seems to be different from his Origins nose.
They truly need to completely abandon whatever face morph system they have for DA2. I cannot stress how much I hate it. Especially with the Origins companions though, they all look terrible and even ones that look "ok" like Leliana, still have significantly different facial structures.
With Isolde, if she didn't give her trademark line, I don't know that I'd have recognized her without Teagan saying who it was Her face really doesn't look anything like it did in Origins if you took away the hair and fact that she's in the same dress. Her face just looks like almost every other generic DA2 female- same bloated chubby jaw, same rounded nose, same eyes and lips.
Compare:


to


I think the odd way the lighting works on characters in DA2 has something to do with it, but just structurally, Isolde's face is significantly different- from the jaw, chin, smaller nose and Botoxed forehead.
#478
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:08
#479
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:13
#480
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:22
TheGunslinger wrote...
I loved the DLC! Especially the sneaking around and all. Tallis was an awesome character and it's nice to see Qunari in other races. I just wish she was permanent.
Yeah.
I was pained when I saw her in the character select screen. A cruel tease. D:
#481
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:31
Zjarcal wrote...
The lighting definitely plays a role as that has been pretty established how the lighting in DA2 can have extremely odd results, but I do agree that her facial structure is indeed slightly different. Honestly though, I don't mind seeing that it's mostly just her looking a bit chubbier than in DAO. Makes sense that she looks a bit different after a few years, and even so, she is still perfectly recognizable to me.
EVERYONE is chubbier then because everyone has that exact same chubby undefined jawline. And her nose is significantly smaller too. The character creator for the faces in DA2 just is not that good at providing diverse looking faces- either that or they just didn't put much work into most of the faces. Gah- you know I played the DLC and it wasn't half bad, but just as I'd be getting into it thinking its ok, something like Obese Isolde and Monster Nose Teagan would pop up and remind me why I disliked DA2 as much as I did and made me glad I only played this at a friend's.
Modifié par Brockololly, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:32 .
#482
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:38
Brockololly wrote...
...Monster Nose Teagan...
Come on man, he was always monster nose Teagan. The dude is just plain ugly in both games.
Ahem, getting rather off topic here, so I will mention something that was addressed recently, the forest. I do agree with Brock about the terrain itself looking too flat, that was probably the first thing I noticed, especially since I had just been playing The Witcher 2 for the past few days, so that was a rather jarring contrast. It's something I wish they worked on. I still loved the forest overall though, mostly due to the presence of the clueless Orlesians in it as well as the structure of it. It was a fun place to wander on.
Modifié par Zjarcal, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:43 .
#483
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:46
Loved:
Multi-tiered Puzzles (Still have not solved that portrait tile flipping puzzle)
Orlais and the Orlesians (The A-hole with the Temper tantrum plus the Shenanigans from the party, so good)
Stealth section (I want more of this in future DA games/DLC)
Qunari and Tal-Vashoth (Tallis' perspective on the Qun and its people is much appreciated since Act II of DA2 was one of the major highlights of the main game)
The Fights (OMG... OMG... the Sky Horror was a badass motherf*cker even on Casual, I was getting one-shotted as a Mage Hawke and Rogue Hawke)
Ghasts and Wyverns (I enjoyed these battles and that one fight where you fought them together towards the end of the DLC, was a test of my party setup and skill/spell choices)
The Olive Duty Elf Servant (Soooooooooooo sexy, dat voice... dat skin... dem eyes *swoon*)
Chasind Bodyguard/Mage Fight (I was wondering why Tallis had so many Anti-Magic abilities and how they were not very useful... until this fight. Then I appreciated her skill tree.)
Serendipity's Cameo (The "Honey Badger" nickname had me rolling, glad to see her outside of the Rose)
Harlequin Equipment Vendor (Tallis needed equipment since I didn't bring her any rings or belts or amulets with me from storage)
NPC Animations/Cutscenes (The Orlesians were very animated and organic in their movements, The Duke and that whiny Noble from the Wyvern Hunt were especially emotive with their bodies, keep this up for future installments; The Wyvern leaping into the next area of the hunting ground scared the Dung out of me.)
Tallis: Last but not least, this elven Assassin very much snuck her way into my heart and I defintely want to see her again in Dragon Age 3.
Disliked:
Would've enjoyed some more regional gear/weaponry (despite the fact I purchased awesome gear from the two Item Packs already)
Leliana Cameo (Why was she there?!?! I WANT TO KNOW! She keeps popping up and my Warden misses her. DON'T LEAVE ME HANGING!)
Bosses that toss about Fire all willy-nilly (We need more Ice/lightning attack based bosses, ya know, variety)
Not having access to the Party attire of Hawke and Tallis outside of the DLC (I'd like to hang onto those garments for my Hawke's to strut around Kirkwall/Estate in)
Overall, it was a blast. And while slightly reminiscent of ME2's Stolen Memory, was actually ALOT more fun, as after completing my first MotA run IMMEDIATELY loaded up another Hawke and did it again! So good.
#484
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:49
Cassandra tells Varric in the intro, "we had someone there," obviously she meant Leliana.
Modifié par Lenimph, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:49 .
#485
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:03
Yes, I am aware of that. But why is the Chantry/Seekers involved in rumored Qunari/Orlesian activities?Lenimph wrote...
@Esbatty
Cassandra tells Varric in the intro, "we had someone there," obviously she meant Leliana.
#486
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:09
Esbatty wrote...
Yes, I am aware of that. But why is the Chantry/Seekers involved in rumored Qunari/Orlesian activities?
Because religious people are snoops obviously
Why wouldn't they be interested in Qunari/Orlesian activities? They're a powerful institution; hardly anything from being a harmless and modest chapel.
#487
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:10
Indoctrination wrote...
Raycer X wrote...
is it just me, or does Tallis die a lot during the DLC on hard mode and nightmare?
I had her die a lot in the sections where a constitution bug seemed to be present and all of my party members seem to have less HP than they were supposed to.
Tallis died a lot for me on Hard. Next time I'm going to make sure I have a Maker's Sigh on me so I can give her more con points.
#488
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:19
Lenimph wrote...
Esbatty wrote...
Yes, I am aware of that. But why is the Chantry/Seekers involved in rumored Qunari/Orlesian activities?
Because religious people are snoops obviously
Why wouldn't they be interested in Qunari/Orlesian activities? They're a powerful institution; hardly anything from being a harmless and modest chapel.
I'm gonna ignore your response and simply picture Tallis wearing nothing but a helmet and breastplate waving a heated prybar at my Hawke.
#489
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:24
David Gaider wrote...
Siduri wrote...
But yeah, I think most of us would have liked to have seen our female characters get at least the same kind of attention from the art department that the NPC got.
Is that really out of line? Really?
I imagine that, short of putting femHawke in a walk-in closet with a selection of outfits to choose from, there's probably nothing we could have put her in that wouldn't have been considered ugly to someone. And even then, probably.
And I thought the suit looked pretty good on a female PC, anyhow. The taffeta would've been better, of course, especially if we could add a rustle-rustle noise whenever she walked around.
David, I'm really sorry. But...
Those pants make her ass look like an 18-wheeler. Fem!Hawke has way too much back to be wearing striped pants.
#490
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:28
darkrose wrote...
Tallis died a lot for me on Hard. Next time I'm going to make sure I have a Maker's Sigh on me so I can give her more con points.
Yep, respeccing her is an absolute must. Bring also a few rings, belts, and amulets with health bonus attributes. Also give her some rock armor potions, they help a lot too.
#491
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 06:34
#492
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 07:27
Master Shiori wrote...
I always took that as meaning that only men are suitable to serve on the front lines, while women can still serve in other roles that aren't related to warfare. So spies and assassins should be open to everyone, regardless of gender.
That makes sense, but then I wonder why Sten insisted on telling my elven female rogue Warden that "women can't fight". She had the same skill set as Tallis, and she wasn't really fighting on the front lines until the Battle of Denerim; usually she let her big, heavily-armored boyfriend take aggro while she snuck up and stabbed someone in the back.
#493
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 07:53
+ Nice to have Carver back
+ Fenris dialogue wasn't broken!
+ Liked the outdoor maps
++ Loved the party (though I wish I could have taken Fenris). I enjoyed giving my Snarky Good Hawke a chance to chew on the scenery and to have fun.
+/- Tallis was kind of an interesting character, but I was always aware that THIS IS FELICIA DAY, DUDES! I found her face to be out of proportion and...weird looking, even for a DA2 elf. Not attractive.
- I frequently felt like Hawke was an afterthought, and that the game was all about
- Part of it was due to what I felt was an overuse of cutscenes. Hawke kind of felt like a spectator in his own story
- The Duke seemed to go from zero to crazy in a matter of seconds. Too many antagonists in DA2 are motivated by being nuts.
- Nice as it was to have Carver, I felt like there should have been more banter with Hawke.
- Also, do I want to know what Carver did to get leave from the Templars to go to a party? This was especially jarring after having done Legacy in Act 2, and hearing him say that he normally wouldn't get leave for that quest.
- I found the stealth thing to be incredibly frustrating, but the "Let's go in and kill everyone!" seemed excessive. It would have been nice to have an option to bull**** your way into the castle.
- Most of the Orlesian accents were like nails on a chalkboard. Like, Marjolaine in Origins levels of bad.
- "Turnip" as the go-to Orlesian insult was immersion-breaking. Why not go all the way and have them tell me that my mother smells of elderberries?
-- I understand why, in many cases, there's no dialogue specific to a mage Hawke. However, there were places where it should have at least been mentioned at wasn't; namely in one conversation with Tallis where I really should have had the option to point out that the Qun is all well and good if you're cool with having your eyes and mouth sewn shut for being a mage.
-- The ending was a big ball of WTF? No matter what choices I make, the end result is always going to be the same.
--- What's my motivation? I never felt like there was any reason for Hawke to agree to the quest in the first place. Tallis didn't offer me any kind of reward, and yet I take off for some party that's clearly not my thing, while Kirkwall is on the brink of war between mages and Templars?
My overall grade would be a B-, as compared to a B+ for Legacy (which I marked down because of the Fenris dialogue bug).
Modifié par darkrose, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:39 .
#494
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 08:16
#495
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 08:19
I wasn't intending to buy MotA, since I don't really go for DLCs in general. I only made an exception here because I wanted to see if a rumour about the DLC being (accidentally) available before release was true.
It was, at least for the people who managed to get their hands on it before the window closed.
So, here's my comprehensive non-spoiler review.
I should begin by saying it took me roughly six hours to finish this DLC the first time, and this was not only solving all the quests and puzzles I could find, talking to absolutely everyone multiple times and doing both branches of a section where the story splits, but taking lots and lots of screenshots. So unless some of the fights or puzzles stump you for longer than they did me, you're probably going to finish one playthrough in less than that.
I played on normal difficulty as I usually do, and there is only one compulsary (and fairly basic) logic puzzle to progress the story in the DLC. Other logic puzzles exist, but they are optional and grant loot only (be warned, warriors...if you want a full suit of new armour, you'll want to put those thinking caps on.
You start off with Varric as a requisite party member, going to meet some contact in Hightown at night. Tallis, a dagger-wielding elf who makes her appearance in so much bloodshed you'd think she's an assassin of some sort, is the result of this encounter. As Hawke has an invitation to the chateau of an Orlesian duke she professes an interest in (or, rather, in one of his *significant dialogue pause indicating deception* possessions), she wants to piggyback on your ride to get in. You agree to help her steal it, because hey, otherwise you're not going to be playing this DLC.
Yeah, so the story has a couple of flaws and Hawke can look like a gullible idiot (more on that later). But it's still fun.
What I Liked
New areas, very little to no repeating (unless you choose to backtrack as I did).
New art. Walk across daisies. See a bubbling stream. Look at how the Orlesians dress.
New monster types, and new human foes.
A fair bit of dialogue to keep you going.
Good believable reason for sibling to be present.
Interesting story and focus character.
Mini sidequests. I counted at least three (not including the logic puzzles), as well as an additional miniquest for both my core companions Varric and Fenris. I assume there are different quests for other companions. Mine yielded items only they could use as rewards.
Lots of new lore, including Orlesian, Avvar, Qunari and a bit of Grey Warden.
Collectable items for Hawke only.
New items for all classes.
New banters.
Some familiar NPCs return for cameos.
Optional logic puzzles, if you like logic puzzles.
Stealth section, if you like evasion games.
Option to skip the stealth section and just fight your way through.
Some challenging combats that not only have tough enemies, but battlegrounds that require a bit of thinking.
Music was suitable for the DLC. Thought I heard some Leliana's Song stuff in there?
More than one way to get through, or bypass, a number of main plot areas (as noted with stealth).
Qunari. Language. Lore. Philosophy. Culture.
LI banter (at least for Fenris. Although I only counted one and haven't heard everything, I think).
Trademark Bioware humour. (Well, I think it's a pro.)
Fenris and Varric attempting to mount a rescue (Bwahaha.)
Things I Thought Could Have Been Better
A few small bugs, but nothing game-breaking or major.
Overlong intro cinematic for Tallis. It was visually well done, but compared to the intros of all the other companions in the game it felt like it was trying too hard to impress. It didn't have to. There was the rest of the DLC for that. I kinda feel sorry for Sebastian, his one arrow, and not even being included in his first quest (even if he becomes a joinable NPC later on).
One divergent point in the story which felt quite major at the time led me to pretty much exactly the same end.
A few dialogue points are stupidly off.
If you don't like dialogue being put in your PC's mouth, there's a lot of it here. Hawke gets quite a bit of say in ambient banter, and the player gets no say in it (not that the banter isn't well-written or anything, it just breaks immersion for me from an RP perspective).
There is a transition from day to night which felt very abrupt, at least to me.
If you choose Fight instead of Stealth, for some reason you have time to go back, get your gear and put on a full set of plate armour, but no time to find your other companions.
Mabari. I love mabari, but are they the only hunting dog in Thedas? When Orlesians scorn Fereldan 'Dog Lords' you don't expect them to have their own mabari hounds (or hounds that look like them, anyway).
Crows. For the best, most expensive assassin guild in the known world, they really get their asses handed to them on a regular basis. They have ceased being a fearsome foe (Taliesen's scene in DA:O was extremely challenging) and have become cannon fodder whenever there is a need for assassin enemies. Can't we use some other assassin guild, guys?
Still a distinct lack of wildlife, ghasts notwithstanding.
As predicted, despite dealing with qunari in Kirkwall, Hawke does not recognise the symbol on Tallis' armour and can never bring it up. Ever.
Neither can you ask if she happens to be an assassin, because her intro scene totally doesn't make her look like one. "I knew you were an assassin!" indeed...
There's a big opportunity for Hawke to cause some major damage at the end of this DLC, especially if they don't like the qunari and don't care about collateral damage. It wouldn't let me do this when I tried, for curiosity's sake. When I tried harder with an aggressive Hawke, the result was about the same. Sadly, no matter the PC's stance towards qunari or Tallis herself, Hawke is all talk for the outro. :/ Trying and failing would have been something.
Relating to the previous Dislike, once again giving dialogue choices where Hawke is prevented from following through. It's this scene all over again:
Meredith: Chase down these three mages!
Hawke: No.
Hawke: ...
Hawke: Oh, alright.
Extra Credit:
You can flirt with Tallis.
IMO Felicia Day did well with her VOs. No complaints from me.
In summary, if you like qunari stuff you will most likely appreciate this DLC. There's some heavy dialogue regarding it; it's not all in codices and the occasional language lesson. The plot was half what I expected but the rest managed to spring some surprises.
All in all, not perfect but still pretty polished and well worth $10. Bringing different companions and a different Hawke will probably net you some good replay value too.
#496
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 08:33
I think it shows a clear disrespect for the lore and the world, when the player gets the distinct feeling of being introduced to new types of beast simply for the vulgar purposes of marketting, making a flashy boss battles, introducing 'new' gameplay elements etc.
Why did we have to have those burrower things in this particular DLC? Why not have some especially feral wolf pack roaming the forests, for instance? I will argue that Dragon Age is not a franchise that benefits from these witless additions of new supernatural creatures. The more you add the more you dilute.
I guess because new fantastical creatures (whatever they are, alluded to previously or not) are more flashy, markettable and 'excting'? None of those factors guarantee intriguing and believable lore, in this case I'd say they corrode it.
#497
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 08:55
Wyndham711 wrote...
Why did we have to have those burrowerthings in this particular DLC? Why not have some especially feral wolf
pack roaming the forests, for instance? I will argue that Dragon Age is not a franchise that benefits from these witless additions of new supernatural creatures. The more you add the more you dilute.
That's one area where I definitely disagree. DA2 was in sore need of new monsters; in the transition from DA: Origins to DA2, the bestiary of monsters in Thedas actually shrunk. Though they may still be part of the setting, we no longer got to fight werewolves or sylvans, and the only new creatures DA2 actually added to the world were the rock wraiths. They're by and large limited to the Primeval Thaig. I like variety in my enemies, and while the ghasts are a bit of an odd fit for Dragon Age, I'll gladly take 'em.
Really, the ghasts should have been in the main game. I can think of a few quests where they would have been welcome.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:03 .
#498
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 09:32
While I might agree with you on the point of having her be like similar NPCs of the past (ie DAO Isabela sexy time), you should remember that Tallis is a digital representation of Felicia Day, physically - her face is actually on the character, along with the voice. If I were her, I wouldn't want myself to be in a scene of that nature. You might respond with that fact that she is an actor and they appear in sex scenes all the time. That's true, however video games are active entertainment, not passive. There is a difference when a person feels involved and is living vicariously through their character, rather than just watching a film.The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
3) No option to have sex with Tallis, or better yet a menage a trois with Tallis and the LI. Or better yet, an option to have a foursome with Isabela.
Also (this is a more plot oriented comment), it's one thing to go to the Pearl in DAO and have that dialogue option, or during some other set point like in DA2's various love scenes, but MotA involves a specific mission with immediate/timely goals to aim for, I'm not quite sure how that would have been worked in there.
Well it is their lore and their world... but I won't argue that sometimes things are added or subtracted for the sake of profit.Wyndham711 wrote...
I strongly dislike the way how new, never before seen of mentioned monsters/creatures just keep popping up for the pragmatic purposes of a DLC quest. In some ways I find this even more distasteful than the wanton, direct retconning that has taken place with other DA2 monsters that had precursors in DA:O.
I think it shows a clear disrespect for the lore and the world, when the player gets the distinct feeling of being introduced to new types of beast simply for the vulgar purposes of marketting, making a flashy boss battles, introducing 'new' gameplay elements etc.
Why did we have to have those burrower things in this particular DLC? Why not have some especially feral wolf pack roaming the forests, for instance? I will argue that Dragon Age is not a franchise that benefits from these witless additions of new supernatural creatures. The more you add the more you dilute.
I guess because new fantastical creatures (whatever they are, alluded to previously or not) are more flashy, markettable and 'excting'? None of those factors guarantee intriguing and believable lore, in this case I'd say they corrode it.
However, here is an alternative way of thinking about it regarding DA2: Throughout DA2 and Legacy were are shown a few types of outside environments: rocky coastal area, mountain paths and caves, rocky desolate mining areas, and sandy wasteland (Legacy). These are not only different from the various DAO environments in content (enchanted forest, farmland, snowy mountain peaks, swamp/marshy areas) but in regional differences as well, since Ferelden is further south (of the equator) and has a colder climate than the Free Marches (in The Calling, young Duncan complains frequently of being too cold in Ferelden).
It is not unreasonable to assume that there are different types of creatures living in other areas that we haven't encountered yet. Just because we were in the Brecillian Forest in DAO does not mean there has to be the same creatures in this more northern forest in DA2. As has been shown in both games the type of history a given area has affects its future inhabitants.
Modifié par nightscrawl, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:51 .
#499
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 09:36
Pros:
- Humor: Damn, Tallis and Sarcastic Hamke make such a great team on the party, I almost fell off my chair laughing, when Hawke went all "Tell them, I died at Chateau Haaaiiineee!", simply brilliant, and of course "ungodly cacophony" was just hillarious. Great Writing on that part, guys.
- Political Plot: That's rather my personal taste since I prefer political over ancient-evil plots.
- Endfight: Hard, but with the right strategy it was no problem (even on Nightmare) and that is something I like. I don't know how it plays without a Spirit Healer, but actually after dying once from the chained explosions I managed to keep everyone alive for the whole duration, so no reviving necessary. I actually redid the whole fight once, just to be able to use the romance-option on Tallis (totally worth it^^)
- New Enemies: I especially liked the Harlequin, because I already tried a Sabotage-Rogue myself^^
Cons:
- a little to much riddles, just a little. I like riddles (been a big fan of the Resident Evil-Series until it degenerated to a simple shooter), but I had to give up on the tile-picture. Reminded me a bit of building IKEA furniture: There's always one piece left.
- The Sky Horror: Maybe it was my Level (13-14) or party, but that guy seemed impossible to beat, much harder then even Malvernis. You could hardly evade his to attacks and they kill the squishier party-members almost instantly. At some point I gave up, I will retry it on a higher Lvl with a load of Spirt-Runes in my armor, maybe that'll help.
Overall a great DLC, I hope there will be much more of that quality^^
#500
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 09:50
thats1evildude wrote...
Wyndham711 wrote...
Why did we have to have those burrowerthings in this particular DLC? Why not have some especially feral wolf
pack roaming the forests, for instance? I will argue that Dragon Age is not a franchise that benefits from these witless additions of new supernatural creatures. The more you add the more you dilute.
That's one area where I definitely disagree. DA2 was in sore need of new monsters; in the transition from DA: Origins to DA2, the bestiary of monsters in Thedas actually shrunk. Though they may still be part of the setting, we no longer got to fight werewolves or sylvans, and the only new creatures DA2 actually added to the world were the rock wraiths. They're by and large limited to the Primeval Thaig. I like variety in my enemies, and while the ghasts are a bit of an odd fit for Dragon Age, I'll gladly take 'em.
Really, the ghasts should have been in the main game. I can think of a few quests where they would have been welcome.
I understand your point. However, first and foremost I would like more diversity within the enemy types we already have. Different human factions/groups having different fighting styles and apporaches, for instance. Also, have different sized and shaped human body models. That would push BioWare to add in more weapon types in the gameplay, such as spears/halberds etc, in effective ways. We would gain both more enemy types, AND more options in terms of character creation/development. Effective and immersive.
Also, I'm not against new monsters on principle, just that when a new one is introduced I'd want good reasons as to why it hasn't been seen before or at least alluded to. The trick is to introduce new creatures organically. The way the DLC has been handling new enemy types has been, in my opinion, disgraceful, heavy handed, and ultimately corrosive to the general verisimilitude of the setting.
Modifié par Wyndham711, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:56 .





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