103 réponses à ce sujet

[Arius23]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Chimpanzees can be trained to wear clothes and star in low-budget Hollywood films. Doesn't make them sentient.

Yes but those chimps were trained to do those things. The Ghasts are doing these things with no aid from society at all. That points to a primitive level of sentience I would think.

Maybe someone taught the Ghasts to fight so they could have their own personal army of fighting monkeys?  Then they got loose, taught other Ghasts to fight and are now rampaging through Thedas.

[BigBad]

There are a large number of animals that, while nonsentient, can learn surprisingly sophisticated tricks (including advanced tool usage and applied psychology) from just observing humans. Corvids, in particular, are frighteningly intelligent.

[Quething]

Addai67 wrote...
I think the point is rather that they said the devs previously said they didn't want to do goblins, that they were sticking to a more natural vs. spiritual bestiary.  But, it is obviously their prerogative to change their minds, so I imagine the wtf'ery will continue.

Heh. All the ghasts' new abilities in the game files are prefixed as "GOBLIN." (GOBLIN_MONSTER_SIMPLE_RANGED_EXTREME, etc).

Anyway I'm going to say that designing and effectively using a blowgun and rudimentary armor with stitching requires sentience. There's tool-using like monkeys poking straws into anthills, and then there's tool-using like "I built a mage staff guys, let's see what we can channel through it."

[Dave of Canada]

As a fan of goblins and dwarves, I'd like to see them approved and possibly becoming a sort of pseudo-icon for the Dragon Age series.

*runs away from booing crowd*

[Zanallen]

They could have stolen the clothes and the tools.

[Sepewrath]

Well don't forget that humans didn't just pop out with iphones, automobiles and indoor plumbing. It was a slog through evolution and growth as a species. You could look at the Ghast as a species making its way towards true sentience, but they are in the tools phase.

Regardless, all I know is they are annoying as hell, with those blow darts.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Quething wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I think the point is rather that they said the devs previously said they didn't want to do goblins, that they were sticking to a more natural vs. spiritual bestiary.  But, it is obviously their prerogative to change their minds, so I imagine the wtf'ery will continue.

Heh. All the ghasts' new abilities in the game files are prefixed as "GOBLIN." (GOBLIN_MONSTER_SIMPLE_RANGED_EXTREME, etc).

XD Oh, the irony.

[Complistic]

They had armor and blow darts or something so they were obviously intelligent. I thought they were a very odd enemy to kill.

[Kwanzaabot]

Quething wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I think the point is rather that they said the devs previously said they didn't want to do goblins, that they were sticking to a more natural vs. spiritual bestiary.  But, it is obviously their prerogative to change their minds, so I imagine the wtf'ery will continue.

Heh. All the ghasts' new abilities in the game files are prefixed as "GOBLIN." (GOBLIN_MONSTER_SIMPLE_RANGED_EXTREME, etc).

Anyway I'm going to say that designing and effectively using a blowgun and rudimentary armor with stitching requires sentience. There's tool-using like monkeys poking straws into anthills, and then there's tool-using like "I built a mage staff guys, let's see what we can channel through it."

lol, what was Bioware thinking?

Maybe they regretted turning Genlocks from goblins into those awesome gorilla Darkspawn?

Either way, I like Ghasts, I just wish they'd make some sense.

[Kwanzaabot]

EDIT: Arg, double post.

Modifié par Kwanzaabot, 13 octobre 2011 - 03:02 .

[Nashiktal]

The word is sapient, not sentient. Monkeys are absolutely sentient, as are lots of animals.

[Addai]

Dave of Canada wrote...

As a fan of goblins and dwarves, I'd like to see them approved and possibly becoming a sort of pseudo-icon for the Dragon Age series.

*runs away from booing crowd*

I thought goblins were pretty creepy in Oblivion, and they had an actual society and stuff.  Creepy would be fine.  These chattering lizard monkeys, I'm not so sure about.  I was thinking this was supposed to be a dark, mature type of fantasy. (*ba dump bump*)

[Brockololly]

Quething wrote...
Heh. All the ghasts' new abilities in the game files are prefixed as "GOBLIN." (GOBLIN_MONSTER_SIMPLE_RANGED_EXTREME, etc).

Anyway I'm going to say that designing and effectively using a blowgun and rudimentary armor with stitching requires sentience. There's tool-using like monkeys poking straws into anthills, and then there's tool-using like "I built a mage staff guys, let's see what we can channel through it."

Ha- yeah, this just seems like yet another instance of the written lore of the world contradicting what you're actually seeing in terms of gameplay and visuals. The codex is telling us these goblins can't speak and aren't intelligent, yet they seem to have the ability to fashion clothing, tools and weaponry.

I don't get it.

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 octobre 2011 - 03:43 .

[TEWR]

Nashiktal wrote...

The word is sapient, not sentient. Monkeys are absolutely sentient, as are lots of animals.

 well I feel like a fool

[Nauks]

I gotta go with "they are Murlocks" too.
My first thought when seeing them

[TheGunslinger]

The goblins in Oblivion freaked me out. And did anyone think of the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask when they first saw the Ghasts?

[Zanallen]

Hm, I have yet to find a good picture of one. Going by the few videos I have seen online, their armor is the very definition of random scrap. I believe on is using a gauntlet as a helmet. They definitely aren't making their own clothes or armor. I think they are just stealing what they can or looting corpses and putting it on to mimic people or because its shiny or who knows really.

[Salaya]

Yeah..., ghasts. I think they are the worst addittion to bestiary since "new" hurlocks. It seems bioware forgot about making things with identity ^_^u They resemble many monsters from other games, like Warcraft and D&D.

I liked the detail, though, that groups of ghasts fled from battle when the velghastrial dies

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Zanallen wrote...

Hm, I have yet to find a good picture of one. Going by the few videos I have seen online, their armor is the very definition of random scrap. I believe on is using a gauntlet as a helmet. They definitely aren't making their own clothes or armor. I think they are just stealing what they can or looting corpses and putting it on to mimic people or because its shiny or who knows really.

Here you go:













That last one's a velghastrial.





They definitely don't seem to be making their own armour, save out of what they've scavenged off other people. Note the shield one of them is using looks like the pieces of a saarebas mask. And as you noted, another is using a gauntlet tied to his head as a helmet. Another one seems to be wearing a burlap hat with a skull painted on it. Not sure about the velghastrial's mask though, and it's staff looks like a skull + voodoo doll up close.

Edit: they also seem to be wearing face/body paints (one of the things I miss from the DA:O hurlocks).

Edit 2: The people who think they are murlocs must be blind

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 13 octobre 2011 - 01:27 .

[Zanallen]

Thanks for the pics.

And yeah, they are just wearing whatever the hell they can find. It is all random scrap. This leads me to believe that, since they are clever, they are just mimicking what they see people doing. I kind of like that giggling sound they make. That being said, they certainly are ugly little buggers.

[Foolsfolly]

Can I say something really snarky for a moment?

I can? Ok...

Two, sentient humanoid "monsters" were to be avoided... meaning we didn't want to rely on tribes of orcs, goblins and bugbears populating every remote area that were okay to kill because they're hostile. Darkspawn are humanoid, yes, but they have a specific purpose and the design goal is to avoid a reliance on sentient cultures that are okay to kill.

They broke that with sentient ninja bandit tribes which are okay to kill just because they're hostile.

[Quething]

Successfully mimicing representative war paint is a pretty neat trick for a creature of below-human intelligence. Find me the chimpanzee who, of her own accord, paints an accurate handprint on her hat.

And who exactly are they getting the blowguns from, if they're stealing them? Not a common tool of the Orlesian hunting noble, I have to assume, particularly in the quantity (obscene, obscene quantity, bloody ranged dodge bug) that the ghasts use them.

I think the murloc thing is less about the appearance (though they do share the bright colors and stooped posture, which at the speed they're moving is about as close a similarity as the human brain needs, we're very good at pattern recognition), and more about the "popping up out of nowhere with a weird sound in large packs." Though I can't imagine any sound the DA team's ever come up with that I could grow more wary of than that gargle.

Brockololly wrote...
yeah, this just seems like yet another instance of the written lore of the world contradicting what you're actually seeing in terms of gameplay and visuals.

Well, it could be an inside joke. It strikes me as likely that the dev team had some variation on the discussion we're having now. ("But didn't we say no goblins?" "They're not goblins." "They look like goblins." "They're not." "Fine, but just try and stop me calling them that around the office anyway.")

[Foolsfolly]

Also I just want to say, ghasts are a welcome addition in my opinion. We need more monsters to fight. There's way too many bandits and spiders in DA2. I'd much rather have had these guys on the Wounded Coast instead of dozens of more bandits.

That said, I don't see murlocs when I look at Ghasts. I see goblins and gremlins. Which can't possibly be too high fantasy for a world with talking werewolves. (And I like werewolves.)

[Foolsfolly]

Successfully mimicing representative war paint is a pretty neat trick for a creature of below-human intelligence. Find me the chimpanzee who, of her own accord, paints an accurate handprint on her hat.

There's an elephant that paints elephants.

Not saying Ghasts are simple creatures. They're not. They've very clearly tribal based and some what intelligent.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Addai]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Also I just want to say, ghasts are a welcome addition in my opinion. We need more monsters to fight. There's way too many bandits and spiders in DA2. I'd much rather have had these guys on the Wounded Coast instead of dozens of more bandits.

I saw a screenshot of a sabre tooth tiger from Skyrim the other day.  And then I played MoTA...

There is a LOT you can do with a natural bestiary and demons.  If you're going to make goblins, though, at least... make them look like they're not some ten year old's art project.  Oh, and as far as technology- I'd say the shield thing was pretty advanced.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:29 .