78 réponses à ce sujet

[CrippleFox]

 Commander Shepard has been in more than a few battles in and around Reapers and Reaper artifacts but she/he still hasn't been indoctrinated. 

Commander Shepard made contact with Sovereign on the coloney Eden Prime and was in it's vicinity on Virmire. Later, she/he came into direct contact with Sovereign during the battle of the Citadel.

Commander Shepard 2 years after his contact with Sovereign, makes contact with a direclict Reaper where it is aparent that the indoctrination fields are still up because of the recordings of Cerberus Research crew. In the DLC leading up to Mass Effect 3, Arrival has you walking straight into a Reaper trap set by indoctinated scientists. The Reaper artifact even responds to Commander Shepards presence.

So after all of these encounters, why hasn't Commander Shepard been inoctrinated? If it's just because he's the hero of the story, then why hasn't the rest of his team been indoctrinated?

Suggestions? Thoughts?

[Xilizhra]

Shepard's never been around them for more than an hour. Sovereign flew away on Eden Prime rather quickly, was never physically near Shepard on Virmire, and only manifested through Sovereign on the Citadel.
In 2, I see your point, but she wasn't inside the Reaper long enough for indoctrination to take hold, especially when there's no active mind guiding it; that can take days or weeks. And for Object Rho, Shepard was only near it for one battle (of course, Kenson could have imprisoned Shepard in the room with the object so that she would be more likely to be indoctrinated, but then again, indoctrination makes you stupid; I'm guessing that's why she revealed all the details about how the Project worked even though she wanted to stop it).

[CrippleFox]

I still feel as if she/he should have been indoctrinated by now. In my opinion, that'd be a nice tragic twist. After all, a hero has to make some kind of self sacrifice in order to be a hero, right? Imagine if all of Mass Effect 3 was about Commander Shepard fighting indoctrination and winning, but losing her/his life in the end. I don't know, something to think about.

Also, My guess on Illusive Man being indoctrinated seems to be true in Mass Effect 3, but how he got there is somewhat of a mystery. He did get those glowing eyes and an understanding of all languages from the Reaper artefact on Palevan, the Turian homeworld, and it only took one blast from the artefact to do that. This brings me back to my Commander Shepard question. Why wasn't he indoctrinated by object Rho?

[Sylvanpyxie]

Dead for two years.

Cerberus tech.

(Yes i'm being lazy, just like the Bioware writers were when they KILLED SHEPARD to pass the time. )

Also, to be less lazy, we have no idea what Shepard's contact with the beacons actually did to him/her. Could be it somehow altered brain patterns, making Shepard resistant to indoctrination. Intentionally or not.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:14 .

[Xilizhra]

Because Rho wasn't the same thing as the Palaven artifact, and because Shepard wasn't near it for long enough.

[Inutaisho7996]

Proper indoctrination takes time. If it's rushed, the victim's intellectual capacity is severely diminished. If the reapers want an effective slave, the subject needs to be exposed for days if not weeks.

[PauseforEffect]

Shiala gives a personal account that it takes days, weeks maybe for indoctrination to take hold. Difficult to tell as there's no exact amount of time until side effects are noticeable and even then, it's too late. It also depends upon the strength of an individual's will. Saren, for example, was exposed and it took him longer than the others to be affected. Same with Benezia. Different times vary for each person. With Shepard having a stubborn, indomitable will, indoctrination would be difficult to detect in Shepard.
At least until ME3. Interesting how that will turn out. You are right; Shepard has been exposed to a lot of Reaper indoctrination tech. So has the teammates. All in small doses.

[FoxHound109]

Because he/she has a love shield around his/her mind like Bella Swan.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Who says he isn't already?

[capn233]

That's why Shepard will be inadvertently working for the Reapers in ME3 and why Cerberus has to stop him...

[SandTrout]

Timeframes don't match for known indoctrination patterns.

Even Grayson, who was directly injected with Reaper nanobots, resisted Indoctrination for several days, pushing a week, I think, before he was broken out.

Shepard never spent a significant amount of time continuously near indoctrinating technology until Arrival, and then it was, at most, about 2 days, which isn't enough to indoctrinate most people properly.

We are seriously talking about a cumulative total of maybe 3 days (outside estimate) of non-continuous exposure to a process that can take weeks to have a noticeable effect. No excuse is needed to explain why Shepard is not indoctrinated. They would need some sort of extra explanation if Shepard was indoctrinated (IE: Sovereign pieces used in Lazarus).

[Ryzaki]

There's this thing called plot shield.

It explains why Shep came back from the dead too.

[MACharlie1]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Who says he isn't already?

Quoted for emphasis.

And remember - he spends a lot of time aboard the Normandy - a ship which is utilizying Reaper tech. i.e. blackbox material. 

[Dirgegun]

This could be a little out there, but remember the cipher? It ‘taught’ Shepard to think like a Prothian... later we find out that the Prothians weren’t susceptible to indoctrination which was why they were re-formed into the collectors so that the Reapers could use them. Perhaps the cipher gave Shepard the same kind of resistance?

On top of that Liara described Shepard as a very strong willed person, which could add to his/her resistance. I know some don’t like the ‘Shepard is a special example’ idea, but it’s something to consider because Shepard has been shown to be... well, special. At least in the eyes of a lot of people in the Mass Effect universe.

.....

...Or he/she could already be indoctrinated, in which case... oh damn. o_o

[capn233]

Dirgegun wrote...

This could be a little out there, but remember the cipher? It ‘taught’ Shepard to think like a Prothian... later we find out that the Prothians weren’t susceptible to indoctrination which was why they were re-formed into the collectors so that the Reapers could use them.

No, they were susceptible to indoctrination... Vigil tells you about indoctrinated agents that betrayed the locations of survivors.  The Protheans were not compatible with ascension into Reaper form (and may have been working on something akin to a Reaper to fight them) and so were repurposed into the Collectors.

[Zakatak757]

Tinfoil cap.

[Dirgegun]

capn233 wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

This could be a little out there, but remember the cipher? It ‘taught’ Shepard to think like a Prothian... later we find out that the Prothians weren’t susceptible to indoctrination which was why they were re-formed into the collectors so that the Reapers could use them.

No, they were susceptible to indoctrination... Vigil tells you about indoctrinated agents that betrayed the locations of survivors.  The Protheans were not compatible with ascension into Reaper form (and may have been working on something akin to a Reaper to fight them) and so were repurposed into the Collectors.

Ah, woops! Case of just remembering wrong. I really need to replay all the games before the third comes out. ^^;

[Cypher0020]

I don't think Shep will be indoctrinated due to incredible plot..... I mean will power...

But I do hope s(he) feels some effects... especailly with the entire galaxy swarming with Reaper tech and maybe whatever bits and pieces are in Shep in ME2

Ah wishful thinking I know

[General User]

It's difficult to believe that the Reapers are gods while simultaneously beating the crap out of them on a regular basis.

Modifié par General User, 12 octobre 2011 - 10:11 .

[CrippleFox]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Who says he isn't already?

Quoted for emphasis.

And remember - he spends a lot of time aboard the Normandy - a ship which is utilizying Reaper tech. i.e. blackbox material. 

Exactly. I missed that, thank you. Also, think of what it could mean for people who salvaged Sovereigns parts at the end of Mass Effect 1. Those people, probably people from the Terminus systems and Cerberus, have salvaged pieces of Reaper tech. Whether it was destroyed or not, I think the indoctrination field could still be in effect. So much to think about leading into Mass Effect 3 right now, it's ridiculous. Well done BioWare on the story, eh?

[jamesp81]

Shepard hasn't been exposed to Reaper tech for a long enough period of time for it to start to take hold. Even the two days he was captive in Arrival isn't sufficient.

Also, there is some evidence that Shepard is inherently resistant (if not completely immune) to Reaper indoctrination. It's been a while since I've played ME1, but Liara alludes to his unusual strong will a couple of times.

Suffice to say, a "LOL ur indoctrinated" moment would be ****ing lame and might convince me to not buy the game at all.

[Aurora313]

Shepard would probably have a tiny amount of Reaper influence within him from the time that he spent unconcious with Project Rho only a few rooms away, but I think that the Prothean beacons and cipyer have altered the workings of his brain enough so the Indoctrination only has negliable effects. Liara herself says that a lesser mind would have been destroyed by the beacons vision. His will power is almost god-like. Also - every alien that can f***s with his mind every five minutes. I'd be surprised if the Reapers could exert any influence at all.

[CrippleFox]

Okay, so even IF Commander Shepard is very resistant or even immune to Reaper indoctrination altogether, there's still the total of what... like 15 or more squad mates and 25 or something crew on the Normandy who could possibly get indoctrinated and have a very good chance of messing things up for Commander Shepard.

One very good example, is if the cook on the Normandy was indoctrinated and he poisoned everybody's meal o_o

[ADLegend21]

Cybernetic implans is my theory. Machine's can't be indoctrinated as evidence by the geth and Shepard is part machine (metal bones cybernetic organs, etc.) that's just me though. some of the others stated in here sound good too.

[Robhuzz]

SandTrout wrote...

Timeframes don't match for known indoctrination patterns.

Even Grayson, who was directly injected with Reaper nanobots, resisted Indoctrination for several days, pushing a week, I think, before he was broken out.

Shepard never spent a significant amount of time continuously near indoctrinating technology until Arrival, and then it was, at most, about 2 days, which isn't enough to indoctrinate most people properly.

We are seriously talking about a cumulative total of maybe 3 days (outside estimate) of non-continuous exposure to a process that can take weeks to have a noticeable effect. No excuse is needed to explain why Shepard is not indoctrinated. They would need some sort of extra explanation if Shepard was indoctrinated (IE: Sovereign pieces used in Lazarus).

Don't forget, Rana Thanoptis said it takes a few days, maybe even a week for indoctrination to even weaken one's will. After that, indoctrination starts to affect a person. Grayson was, of course, an exception because all the tech they put in him. I doubt the effects are even cumulative so spending 2 days near a reaper artifact, and then leaving would reset the count. So Shepard would need to spend over a week near a Reaper in ME3 to get indoctrinated.