78 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Shepard is immune to indoctrination because of what the Prothean beacon did to him.

Well, isn't that a daisy. I feel sorry for Shepard's squadmates who accompany him on any missions that involve being w/in close proximity of Reapers or Reaper artifacts.

Modifié par Ravensword, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:48 .

[lovgreno]

The effects of indoctrination seems like it's a very individual thing, wich makes sense considering how complicated and diverse the psyche of a sentient creature seems to be. So perhaps Shepards mind is a ticking indoctrination bomb. All the weird and horrible things Shepars has seen will probably drive him/her nuts anyway a few years from after the reapers are beaten.

[Tyrsah]

Obviously the biggest issue we all seem to have is that Shepard seems to be too omnipotent. I personally would love to see my femshep begin to crumble at the seemingly hopeless task ahead of her. Saving the galaxy from sentient starships that want to harvest all developed life in the galaxy is no small feat and I desperately want my Shepard to buckle from the gravity of the situation. One of the many ways to do this could be little whispers of doubt from potential indoctrination. But as many people have said thus far, Shepard really hasn't been around Reaper technology for a substantial amount of time to warrant full on 'brainwash' in my opinion. However, I think it's believable that he/she has some conflicts buzzing around in his/her head. Pile on top of that Shepard's past (whatever you chose it to be), countless battles, and so much blood on her hands...she's bound to reach a breaking point. Being human may be her greatest strength with all their diversity and variability but it's a weakness too. After all she is only human and I want her to struggle with that reality.

Modifié par Tyrsah, 16 octobre 2011 - 05:30 .

[Zakatak757]

Would have something to do with the Cipher?

Just spitballing here.

[Tyrsah]

As I understand it, the cipher only granted Shepard the ability to understand the visions he/she acquired from the beacons. Sure, the writers could say that it carried along with it the ability to to resist indoctrination but I wouldn't buy it simply because both Seran and Shiala acquired it as well. Both of which succumbed to one sort of indoctrination or another. Just my opinion though.

[BobZilla84]

I think that Shepard is more Machine than man now so maybe thats why he hasn't fallen victim to Indoctrination I mean come on he drank poison and lived not to mention hey can safely drink Ryncol no human can drink it like Grunt said it's like Glass so maybe thats the trick he is really not a human anymore he is a Machine which would be very interesting I have said that this is the most likely Scenario to me at least because the Beacons,Cypher,Shepards Will and Thorian Spores are potental excuses for him not falling victim to Indoctrination but I still think that it is probably Shepard being a Machine a Cyborg as mentioned.

[Jessihatt]

Ravensword wrote...

Since it's stated that indoctrination is irreversible, wouldn't it be cumulative as well like being exposed to radiation?

I'd have thought it was cumulative too really and as for Object Rho, I don't think you'd necessarily have to be in the same room as it for it to have an effect. I mean, all of Kenson's crew were indoctrinated and surely they'd need some clearance to even get in that room - not everyone will have been special enough.

I don't really think it'd be a kick in the teeth for BioWare to turn around and say "Oh yeah, Shepard's finally hearing some little Reaper whispers in his/her head."
It's a good twist!
I'm pretty sure out of all the people who enjoy the series, someone's guessed correctly by now as to what's up with Shepard.

Anywho. Shepard has Reaper tech inside of 'em don't they? Or am I making this up..?
Maybe that's just holding off the indoctrination for now and Shepard will have a Saren (or Anders/Justice) moment later on and wrestle with inner demons.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Is there really no counter/treatment for indoctrination? Because, to me, sounds like a oft abused trope for how characters go bad.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Tyrsah wrote...

Obviously the biggest issue we all seem to have is that Shepard seems to be too omnipotent. I personally would love to see my femshep begin to crumble at the seemingly hopeless task ahead of her. Saving the galaxy from sentient starships that want to harvest all developed life in the galaxy is no small feat and I desperately want my Shepard to buckle from the gravity of the situation. One of the many ways to do this could be little whispers of doubt from potential indoctrination. But as many people have said thus far, Shepard really hasn't been around Reaper technology for a substantial amount of time to warrant full on 'brainwash' in my opinion. However, I think it's believable that he/she has some conflicts buzzing around in his/her head. Pile on top of that Shepard's past (whatever you chose it to be), countless battles, and so much blood on her hands...she's bound to reach a breaking point. Being human may be her greatest strength with all their diversity and variability but it's a weakness too. After all she is only human and I want her to struggle with that reality.

Well said! I so vote yes to this! But don't forget about Rho and the 2 day sedation near it. We know the workers who were living in that portion near the medbay were still getting the signals because of their tapes so shep would still get those signals and the brain soaks up info faster unconscious then it does while its awake and alert so shep could've actually had up to 3 - 4 days worth of info, waves, and programing placed into him/her in just those two days.

Some players have expressed that their shep's are superheroes and therefore can't be bothered with breakdowns, hallucinations, emotions, or anything other then brick syndrome I'm starting to think that through SB like convos at select times during the game along with button mental preservation games we can shape shep to become unhinged or to be superhero deals like a brick with everything.

What I mean by mental preservation is situations are set up where shep is hacked or placed into contact with things that will really test your mental fortitude. One thing I came up with was we get to the geth sphere and Legion says in order to facilitate trust and give an olive branch to the geth so that they will participate in the negotiations with the Quarians they ask shep sense he is now cyborg to exchange data with them and they want to do so by hooking shep into the hub world via his cybornetics they want to get at not only his life experiences but they can finally have the experience of true organics in every facet that they've been trying so hard to study rooting through your emotions, how nerves work ect they'll be able to experience all of that sense all of that is hooked up to your cybernetics or will be triggered as a result them testing those things.

The player can use buttons press enough right shep will be able to cope press to many wrong and this will become a defining point in shep's mental state after this point shep will have difficulties dealing with things, hear voices, feel overall wrong, ect. Shep should also get character development after these mental fortitude tests. BW should come up with more mini games then button pressing but that's all I've got for now.

[Landline]

Because as Liara said, Shepard has an unusually strong mind.

[SandTrout]

A point: There is no known treatment for Indoctrination once it has established itself. However, do not know if the nervous system is able to recover if exposure is for a limited time with significant periods in between. The brain is capable of self-correction after trauma, so it's perfectly reasonable to me that Indoctrination must reach a metaphorical 'event horizon' before the effects are truly irreversible and beyond the ability of the nervous system to heal itself.

[FoxHound109]

Zakatak757 wrote...

Tinfoil cap.

Best answer.

[Rameyuk]

Shepard has always been indoctrinated ever since Mass Effect 1. By us players. All his/her actions and decisions are all based on the indoctrination process by the players influencing Shepard's decisions. Different players give different indoctrination orders to Shepard. Shepard cannot be indoctrinated by the Reapers because he/she has already been indoctrinated by us.

There's this one character in Dragon Age 2 inside the tavern who said that he feels that he's been watched and being a part of a greater story that someone is controlling. That person refers to us being the indoctrinators of Shepard and Hawke.

[AdmiralCheez]

Why not?

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Prothens couldn't stop indoctrination.

What makes anyone think a prothean beacon - which is a communication device - would render Shep immune to indoctrination?

[Landline]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Prothens couldn't stop indoctrination.

What makes anyone think a prothean beacon - which is a communication device - would render Shep immune to indoctrination?

The beacon wasn't designed to interface with humans.

It may have altered his brain in unexpected ways by pure chance.

[SandTrout]

Can anyone make a valid argument as to why Shepard should be indoctrinated? The OP's claim that Shepard has had adequate exposure to the Reapers has already been debunked.

[alperez]

As others have put it there are many reasons why Shepard hasn't been indoctrinated by now, simply put though imo its a combination of all of these elements.

Indoctrination works differently based on the indvidual, some people fall quicker than others, Both Tim and his friend got hit by pretty much the same wave yet it affected them quite differently, TIM survived his friend did not, so this shows that even in the extremes it affects people differently.

Shepard's unique, simply because of the events he's gone through, his contact with the beacons, his death and resurrection, the time he's spent around reaper tech, his contact with the thorian, his taking down of Sovereign when it controlled Saren, all of these things plus his own will are unique aspects that prevent Indoctrination imo.

Which is why the reapers are interested in him and why killing him is something they will do only as a last resort, Harbinger continually says he wants him alive, they tried to get his body from the SB, which shows they are aware that for whatever reason something is different with Shepard, something marks him out from everyone else.

[DiebytheSword]

To those saying that the beacon and cypher protected Shep, why would they not also protect Saren?

I am of the mind that Saren, like Shep was extremely strong willed, so much so that Sovereign had a hard time getting consistent results. I imagine the same would happen for Shep. Hard to break, hard to control, and even harded to get started.

[Ghost-621]

DiebytheSword wrote...

To those saying that the beacon and cypher protected Shep, why would they not also protect Saren?

I am of the mind that Saren, like Shep was extremely strong willed, so much so that Sovereign had a hard time getting consistent results. I imagine the same would happen for Shep. Hard to break, hard to control, and even harded to get started.

Saren was already lost before he found the beacon.

[DiebytheSword]

Ghost-621 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

To those saying that the beacon and cypher protected Shep, why would they not also protect Saren?

I am of the mind that Saren, like Shep was extremely strong willed, so much so that Sovereign had a hard time getting consistent results. I imagine the same would happen for Shep. Hard to break, hard to control, and even harded to get started.

Saren was already lost before he found the beacon.

Never completely, even after his upgrades, he had moments of resistance.  Those places would be a foothold for him to regain control if the cypher served as a block.

[Tonymac]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard's never been around them for more than an hour. Sovereign flew away on Eden Prime rather quickly, was never physically near Shepard on Virmire, and only manifested through Sovereign on the Citadel.
In 2, I see your point, but she wasn't inside the Reaper long enough for indoctrination to take hold, especially when there's no active mind guiding it; that can take days or weeks. And for Object Rho, Shepard was only near it for one battle (of course, Kenson could have imprisoned Shepard in the room with the object so that she would be more likely to be indoctrinated, but then again, indoctrination makes you stupid; I'm guessing that's why she revealed all the details about how the Project worked even though she wanted to stop it).

I would say that this is a highly intelligent argument, and makes sense on every point.

  On Eden Prime he was near Sovereign/Nazarra for less than one minute - and that was from a heck of a distance.

  On Virmire he was never even in sight the whole time -  it was just a hologram.

  On the Citadel Shep was in vacuum - which means that all of the sound portions of Indoctrination were removed (according to the Codex).  Also, Nazarra/Sovereign was likely working on the battle rather than indoctrinating as his servant  Saren was implanted.

  The IFF mission was fast paced, hard hitting, and overwith all too quickly in my opinion.  It seemed that the Reaper was using the lowest level of indoctrination as part of its defense mechanisms, and likely did not need the indoctrination field on at all out in the middle of space when it got spanked and killed.   It took the cerberus team a long time to become indoctrinated - the monitord even mention days with headaches.

For object Rho in Arrival he was in the room with it for a very short time.  After the object knocked him out he was removed to a supposedly distant location from it.  Indoctrination may also work more slowly on unconscious victims.    Amanda Kenson did give Shepard all of the info to stop the Arrival and may have subconsciously protected him with what little of her mind was left, much like Liarra's mother Benezia did..

  We also do not know for sure if some of Shepards 'rebuilding' from the Lazarus Project included any prototype upgrades designed to fight or cancel Indoctrination. 

[Xeranx]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Because he/she has a love shield around his/her mind like Bella Swan.

Kill it with napalm.

[Scourge king]

Shepards not indoctrinated is because of magic fairies and pixies in the land of fardineed but to be real shepard isnt indoctrinated because he hasnt been in the process long enough sure he was in the derelict Reaper but he killed that he was near sovereign but not physically and he was near the reaper larvae but that thing probably wasnt big enough to ever use indoctrination yet.

[Twistedfaith]

As someone previously said; the Normandy does consist partly of Reaper Tech.

However, there will be many possible endings to the game, being indoctrinated could well be one of them, who know's.

It's not impossible, the Prothean -COMMUNICATION- device, won't make him/her immune. Vigil mentioned, on Ilos, indoctrinated Proth's sold out the remaining location of the rest; thus Protheans' themselves are not immune. So yes, that point is rendered useless.
I wouldn't be suprised if TiM pumped Reaper tech into Shepard either, when Cerberus rebuilt him/her, that hasn't been mentioned and -IF- they are working alongside the Reapers, that itself could work to their advantage.
Then again, no BW story, especially the finale is never that simple; meening I still doubt that both Cerberus -and- the Reapers are side by side on this. Question is, why do Cerberus want to stop Shepard? Perhaps TiM isn't the bad guy, afterall, Cerberus are pro-human. Yeah, wanting the greater role in the Galaxy and that? -- There is a possible link between element-zero and the Reapers. So, what happens when Shepard blows one of them sky-high with an artillery strike -on- a planet? Everything dies if it contains a substancial ammount. - I cannot recall the name of the planet that was ruined by eezo, but yes, there has been a couple...Which, my fellow BSN'rs, is what the Reapers want. Destruction.