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[TobiTobsen]

ReiSilver wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I am confused as to how Tallis can be Qunari. I thought Qunari women aren't allowed to fight? Or... does Tallis not count as a woman to them because she's not a kossith?

There is a codex entry about the Ben-Hassrath. They recruit both men and women of all races in the Qun, because people seem to trust their own gender/race more and therefore react better on indoctrination efforts.

See that would imply to me that they Ben-Hassrath aren't really a combat role and I think 'Tallis' itself is a title for an assassin, at least it seemed that way from the first episode of the live action drama series...

I have no problem fitting Assassins/Tallis in the ranks of the Ben-Hassrath. Somebody has to find and punish those who "dare" to turn their back on the Qun.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 octobre 2011 - 11:58 .

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

You'd have thought Sten would have realised that Leliana was effectively a Tallis rather than going on about how women don't fight.

I got the impression that the Qunari define "fight" to mean "fighting in a war", and that they don't consider the Ben-Hassrath to actually fight by their definition when they do fight.

They have.... odd definitions for various things. Why should this be any different?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Arquen]

For the lulz....



Are we sure she's an assassin? Hawke's face... priceless.

From what she made it sound like she was recruited into this Ben-hassrath by Salit. Before that it sounds like she was just an average member of the Qun. Her talents for fighting no doubt were taught to her by the Ben-Hassrath and not within the confines of the Qun itself.

She describes them as enforcers, and so of course they would have people in their ranks who could actually "enforce" things.

I like her seeming reluctance to kill guards and such, but then she is an assassin whose whole mission was to kill someone to get a list. I like the conflicting belief in her. She is one step from turning from the Qun, but it's been her whole world and she doesn't know how to leave those ideals behind.

[leggywillow]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I got the impression that the Qunari define "fight" to mean "fighting in a war", and that they don't consider the Ben-Hassrath to actually fight.

They have.... odd definitions for various things. Why should this be any different?

I found some old Gaider quotes about this topic:

David Gaider wrote...
What Sten meant was that qunari females don't become soldiers-- they don't live by their blade or get trained in combat. This doesn't mean that they are incapable of fighting when the situation calls for it. That would be a very
un-feminine thing to do. If a female qunari persisted down such a path, however, that would call into question their gender-- socially (not biologically, which is something that really only concerns the Tamassrans) qunari are identified by their role. A qunari that fights is a male, for all intents and purposes. Every other qunari would simply refuse to see it otherwise.

::snip::

There is some grey area, mind you. There are female Ben-Hassrath, and they do learn how to fight-- but in a different manner from a soldier. They don't live by their blade. And Tal'Vashoth, of course, break all rules of
qunari culture by their very nature. A female qunari who had abandoned the Qun could do as she wished.

David Gaider wrote...
Right-- as I mentioned, a female qunari would not be trained in combat (unless they were Ben-Hassrath, I suppose, but that is a very separate role from a soldier and a qunari would not consider them the same thing -- a Ben-Hassrath does not fight, they enforce religious law).

Modifié par leggywillow, 12 octobre 2011 - 01:19 .

[TobiTobsen]

Okay... so that would mean the the Ben-Hassrath don't actually fight. Well... at least not in a "manly" Qunari way.

[ReiSilver]

@leggywillow ah very interesting, thank you for the quotes

[Arquen]

That's pretty much what I figured, but good find willow!

Also, I got this banter:

Anders: You just... woke up one day and decided "what I really need in life is someone telling me everything I should think?"

Tallis: It wasn't that easy. Haven't you ever looked at the world and wondered where the justice is? the equality? (to which I went ARE YOU JOKING? do you even KNOW who you are talking to?)

Tallis: In the Qun, everyone is welcome. Elves, humans. It doesn't matter what you look like, where you come from, there's a place for you.

Anders: Unless your a mage.

Tallis: You won't find that anywhere else in Thedas. (completely IGNORING the mage thing. I literally facepalmed.)

I am finding the more I try to listen to Tallis' take on the Qun the harder it is to swallow. She downright ignores the atrocities the Qunari do to indoctrinate and not to mention mages. Her only rebuttal is "well is here so much better? Is human culture so much better?" -- For a mage?? Hell yeah it is. You is crazy, woman!

[TEWR]

Arquen wrote...

That's pretty much what I figured, but good find willow!

Also, I got this banter:

Anders: You just... woke up one day and decided "what I really need in life is someone telling me everything I should think?"

Tallis: It wasn't that easy. Haven't you ever looked at the world and wondered where the justice is? the equality? (to which I went ARE YOU JOKING? do you even KNOW who you are talking to?)

Tallis: In the Qun, everyone is welcome. Elves, humans. It doesn't matter what you look like, where you come from, there's a place for you.

Anders: Unless your a mage.

Tallis: You won't find that anywhere else in Thedas. (completely IGNORING the mage thing. I literally facepalmed.)

I am finding the more I try to listen to Tallis' take on the Qun the harder it is to swallow. She downright ignores the atrocities the Qunari do to indoctrinate and not to mention mages. Her only rebuttal is "well is here so much better? Is human culture so much better?" -- For a mage?? Hell yeah it is. You is crazy, woman!

how does she say the bolded? Because tone is everything.

and imo, culture outside of the Qun is only reasonably better, and that's for non-mages and non-Circle mages. I don't see their lives as that much better. It's better, but barely.

I'm wondering why she has no qualms about speaking with mages. Maybe it has something to do with her struggle to find her place in the Qun.

[TobiTobsen]

She actually sounds like someone that could turn her back on the Qun, if somebody would hold the injustice of the system right under her nose so she can't ignore it anymore. She doesn't sound as if she would convince herself when she talks about how awesome the Qun is and has no problem talking with mages.Varric also told Cassandra that it probably wasn't the last time we saw her.
Maybe all the people who want her back in DA3 or another DLC will get their wish.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 octobre 2011 - 01:37 .

[Miss Greyjoy]

While I found her reasons for her mission to be a little weak, I found her to a be a charming addition to the party. I would love to see more of her in the future, and learn more about her history. How does she know that other redhead, and why do I get a bad feeling about it?

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I got the impression that the Qunari define "fight" to mean "fighting in a war", and that they don't consider the Ben-Hassrath to actually fight.

So if the Darkspawn invaded, a Tallis wouldn't fight them?

[TobiTobsen]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I got the impression that the Qunari define "fight" to mean "fighting in a war", and that they don't consider the Ben-Hassrath to actually fight.

So if the Darkspawn invaded, a Tallis wouldn't fight them?

I remember that Sten said in Redcliff that if somebody would invade the Qunari homeland everybody would fight. They seem to seperate between war in a different country and defense of the own home.

[Wulfram]

TobiTobsen wrote...

I remember that Sten said in Redcliff that if somebody would invade the Qunari homeland everybody would fight. They seem to seperate between war in a different country and defense of the own home.

Except, he's very confused by Leliana/F!Warden fighting to defend their home.

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 octobre 2011 - 01:52 .

[TobiTobsen]

Wulfram wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I remember that Sten said in Redcliff that if somebody would invade the Qunari homeland everybody would fight. They seem to seperate between war in a different country and defense of the own home.

Except, he's very confused by Leliana/F!Warden fighting to defend their home.

I think he sees Leliana and the female warden more as actively engaging the enemy, instead of just defending themselves when the enemy comes to them.

*shrug* The Qunari have a weird worldview.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I got the impression that the Qunari define "fight" to mean "fighting in a war", and that they don't consider the Ben-Hassrath to actually fight.

So if the Darkspawn invaded, a Tallis wouldn't fight them?

They'd probably use the skills of a Tallis (if that's a Qunari title like Sten) against the Darkspawn, but they probably wouldn't consider the Tallis to be fighting like a Sten would.

[ReiSilver]

*edit snip*
reading comprehension past midnight not my strong suit apparently

Modifié par ReiSilver, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:09 .

[Arquen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

how does she say the bolded? Because tone is everything.

She says it wistfully, matter of fact like. Like she didn't even hear Anders say "unless your a mage." Like she is just continuing on her speech.

The Qunari treatment of mages is more brutal and horrid than the circle. The Saarebas have no chance at all. As soon as they are found mages they are bound, muted, chained, and assigned to an Arvaarad ("one who holds back evil") Ketojan kills himself because he fears without an Arvaarad the evil inside him will cause harm. Completely, and utterly brainwashed. LOL, since Rei fixed their post -- I meant this in terms of how she can just ignore this fact. It's very frustrating.

Also, my aggro mage hawke laid into her when in the cell:
Hawke: your talking about butchers, out to destroy any sense of free will!

Tallis: I'm talking about fighting to make things better

Hawke: by slaughtering anyone who disagrees with you?

Tallis: Because your people are so much better, I suppose? No one oppressed, no one left starving? Being a Qunari doesn't automatically mean you're a zealot. Most Qunari don't even understand humans, why you act like you do.

Hawke: Wait... aren't you here to kill someone for the Qunari?
-------------------

Also, my Hawke totally said this: "Give you an option to make up your own mind? Who does that?" to Tallis after she asks if I'd let her "take her chances."

Sten was the perfect example of that Qunari who didn't understand why humans do what they do. The Warden to him was some mythical beast. He didn't get it. I don't think it was about gender, but more about the Warden's behavior and choices in general.

Modifié par Arquen, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Teddie Sage]

The only thing I disliked about Tallis was her neck... Other than that, she was a decent character.

[Sifr]

Arquen wrote...

Sten was the perfect example of that Qunari who didn't understand why humans do what they do. The Warden to him was some mythical beast. He didn't get it. I don't think it was about gender, but more about the Warden's behavior and choices in general.

Exactly, Sten's challenge to the Warden in Haven was this confusion that he simply didn't understand why the Warden was wasting time with healing one man when the Archdemon was threatening to destroy all of Thedas? Sten didn't see how saving the life of one man was worth going backwards in their mission.

It seems that the Qunari do see the Big Picture when it comes to the common good, but they don't understand why the Warden and Hawke would fight through hordes of enemies just to save a single person's life.

Tallis also seems to be this way from her reaction when she asks Hawke if they know what it is to have a purpose in life, saying that Hawke's reply that "I protect Kirkwall" meant that Hawke didn't understand.

From her party banter where she asks if its true that Hawke is really a Ferelden and an outsider to Kirkwall, it seems like Sten, she doesn't understand why Hawke does what Hawke does. Why would Hawke continue to risk everything to protect a place that cannot even protect itself from its own people? Hawke is a stranger to Kirkwall, they owed the city nothing, yet chose to stand as its protector.

Like the Warden, one gets the impression that Hawke is a true unquantifiable to the Qunari, something they cannot sort, file, label or rationalise to any degree into their philosophy.

[Mr.House]

Modifié par Mr.House, 12 octobre 2011 - 04:43 .

[Pris81]

[...]

The Qunari treatment of mages is more brutal and horrid than the circle. The Saarebas have no chance at all. As soon as they are found mages they are bound, muted, chained, and assigned to an Arvaarad ("one who holds back evil") Ketojan kills himself because he fears without an Arvaarad the evil inside him will cause harm. Completely, and utterly brainwashed. LOL, since Rei fixed their post -- I meant this in terms of how she can just ignore this fact. It's very frustrating.

Also, my aggro mage hawke laid into her when in the cell:
Hawke: your talking about butchers, out to destroy any sense of free will!

Tallis: I'm talking about fighting to make things better

Hawke: by slaughtering anyone who disagrees with you?

Tallis: Because your people are so much better, I suppose? No one oppressed, no one left starving? Being a Qunari doesn't automatically mean you're a zealot. Most Qunari don't even understand humans, why you act like you do.

Hawke: Wait... aren't you here to kill someone for the Qunari?
-------------------

Also, my Hawke totally said this: "Give you an option to make up your own mind? Who does that?" to Tallis after she asks if I'd let her "take her chances."

Sten was the perfect example of that Qunari who didn't understand why humans do what they do. The Warden to him was some mythical beast. He didn't get it. I don't think it was about gender, but more about the Warden's behavior and choices in general.

Hmm...
That's an interesting point of view.

Anyway... I understood that she ends up going Tal-Vasoth because she never found
the "peace" she was looking for when she joined the Qun. That suggests
she just doesn't want to admit qunari are as wrong as humans or even
worse. She's not able to understand that people can often do what they decide to do and not what they are meant to -quite like Sten. But Sten has no doubt of it, as he would never go Tal-Vasoth...

A couple of hours is too little time to make an elaborate oppinion about a character, so I still don't have one. I just liked her, but maybe that's because... well, I'm used to other DLC Dragon Age II characters.

[Mr.House]

Ok I'll stop.

[Arquen]

I definitely agree -- I can't do a full analysis of her character unless I know more. The webseries should shed more light on it no doubt.

The journal entry on Tallis after you complete the DLC is interesting too.. "I thought I saw her in the marketplace..." My entry read suspicious if nothing else. Cautious at the very least, which is how I pretty much view Tallis.

She uses her charm and snark like a bard, as I said. Made me also wonder what her connection to Lelianna was. I'm sure it was something bardy/assassiny. Wonder if she has ever met Zev, LOL.

I like her character well enough. I was pretty surprised actually how much I was hooked and wanted to know more about her and this Ben-Hassrath and the Qunari involvement. Ultimately, though I think I would want her to find her own place in the world, and not be a part of the Qun. She can't find the "peace" because it seems Qunari alone are capable of completely handing over all that makes them individuals to a "greater purpose" moreso than elves and humans are.

pic for good measure


I really do love her character model if nothing else, and that is not just because it was modeled after Felicia Day.

[Mr.House]

Most likely Tallis and Leli worked together a bit when Leli was a bard.

[jamesp81]

Sabariel wrote...

I...... like her outfit.

Once you go elf, you'll put the others on the shelf:wub: