296 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

Yes seem leli and tallis meet before.. gosh why can Myhawke ever meet the warden arg.. lol.
I like that end kiss, but I felt bad cheating on Fenris.. poor guy lol!.. Going to make a chart that is single..Oh maker! 10 years without.. My hawke can get the once every 3 years but 10 years is gonna be hard. ROFL.

[TEWR]

Arquen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

how does she say the bolded? Because tone is everything.

She says it wistfully, matter of fact like. Like she didn't even hear Anders say "unless your a mage." Like she is just continuing on her speech.

The Qunari treatment of mages is more brutal and horrid than the circle. The Saarebas have no chance at all. As soon as they are found mages they are bound, muted, chained, and assigned to an Arvaarad ("one who holds back evil") Ketojan kills himself because he fears without an Arvaarad the evil inside him will cause harm. Completely, and utterly brainwashed. LOL, since Rei fixed their post -- I meant this in terms of how she can just ignore this fact. It's very frustrating.

They're actually only muted if they practice forbidden magic. Unless you don't mean losing their tongues and actually mean they can't speak at all because of the control device. In which case yes they are muted.

I'm not saying that the Qunari way to treat mages isn't abhorrent. It is. I just don't see the Circle Mages as having that much of a better life.

They're caged, feared, and watched by Templars who are recruited primarily for their religious zeal and not for their morality. At least with the Qunari they do it out of a sense of caring for everyone -- the mage included -- even if it's in their own weird way.

The Qunari way of life and how they define things is very odd. They both pity and honor Saarebas because of the threat of demons, which says a lot about how they actually do view them. They do care. Again, it's in their own weird way, but they do care because when you're a Saarebas you're a living embodiment of everything the Qun is about.

Also, my aggro mage hawke laid into her when in the cell:
Hawke: your talking about butchers, out to destroy any sense of free will!

Tallis: I'm talking about fighting to make things better

Hawke: by slaughtering anyone who disagrees with you?

Tallis: Because your people are so much better, I suppose? No one oppressed, no one left starving? Being a Qunari doesn't automatically mean you're a zealot. Most Qunari don't even understand humans, why you act like you do.

Hawke: Wait... aren't you here to kill someone for the Qunari?
-------------------

Also, my Hawke totally said this: "Give you an option to make up your own mind? Who does that?" to Tallis after she asks if I'd let her "take her chances."

I must admit I didn't quite understand that last line from Hawke in regards to the whole discussion, mainly because when I heard it I was running on 3 hours of sleep. I still am actually.

Perhaps if I wasn't so tired something that is incredibly clear to a non-tired person would be to me.

Sten was the perfect example of that Qunari who didn't understand why humans do what they do. The Warden to him was some mythical beast. He didn't get it. I don't think it was about gender, but more about the Warden's behavior and choices in general.

Sten was a great Qunari. He was devout to the Qun, but couldn't understand the society of the "bas". But it's my belief (and various comments by Sten support my theory) that he'll be the Hugh of the Qunari (Star Trek Hugh). I think he'll become the new Arishok because he admits that his views have changed from his time with the Warden and his/her company.

But now that we have Tallis, I wonder if she'll become the next Ariqun. She expressed doubt in the Qunari lifestyle and was trying to convince herself of the things she was taught. So if she were to become the next Ariqun and Sten were to become the next Arishok, then I truly think the Qun will change for the better.

[Pris81]

Tallis' character model is the best elf one in DA2, and it's not that I don't like the usual one.
And sorry if I never stop with the silliness, but the "mimicking a couple of pairing wyverns" part got me rofl, specially because I couldn't help picturing both her and Hawke doing the whole performance. Once again, I miss the time when I always had my sketchbook and scanner ready...

[Pris81]

It's taking me ages to edit the... ***DOUBLE POST*** ...and this time it's not me being goofy, for a change.

Modifié par Pris81, 12 octobre 2011 - 06:20 .

[Mr.House]

Qunari respect Saarabas, I doubt Templars respect mages.

[Mr.House]

Qunari respect Saarabas. I doubt Templars respect mages.

[Mr.House]

double post

Modifié par Mr.House, 12 octobre 2011 - 06:28 .

[Pris81]

BTW, I know this is the Tallis topic, not the MotA topic but...

What the ?=%($ have they done to Teagan's face?

[caradoc2000]

Pris81 wrote...

Anyway... I understood that she ends up going Tal-Vasoth because she never found
the "peace" she was looking for when she joined the Qun.

Has it been stated somewhere for how long has she been a Qunari? A recent convert, since childhood, something else? i didn't explore all her conversation trees and haven't really followed the webseries.

[Pris81]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Pris81 wrote...

Anyway... I understood that she ends up going Tal-Vasoth because she never found
the "peace" she was looking for when she joined the Qun.

Has it been stated somewhere for how long has she been a Qunari? A recent convert, since childhood, something else? i didn't explore all her conversation trees and haven't really followed the webseries.

I don't remember that much. I just had one playthrough and somehow I supposed her to be a recent convert just because she's an elf... but that's too much a fast thought, specially recalling what Fenris says about his days with the qunari.

[Arquen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They're actually only muted if they practice forbidden magic. Unless you don't mean losing their tongues and actually mean they can't speak at all because of the control device. In which case yes they are muted.

I'm not saying that the Qunari way to treat mages isn't abhorrent. It is. I just don't see the Circle Mages as having that much of a better life.

They're caged, feared, and watched by Templars who are recruited primarily for their religious zeal and not for their morality. At least with the Qunari they do it out of a sense of caring for everyone -- the mage included -- even if it's in their own weird way.

The Qunari way of life and how they define things is very odd. They both pity and honor Saarebas because of the threat of demons, which says a lot about how they actually do view them. They do care. Again, it's in their own weird way, but they do care because when you're a Saarebas you're a living embodiment of everything the Qun is about.

I don't know if I can agree with this. The Saarebas have an Arvaarad that pretty much controls them with a rod, a collar, and a leash. And yes my muted comment was in regards to the fact that Saarebas cannot speak, and their mouths are sewn and they are silenced by their control rods. Of course in addition to that they can also get their tongues cut out so yeah.. muted in all respects.

Also, I thought if they were practicing "forbidden magic" they would simply be killed. I must admit I am not as knowledgeable about the Qunari customs/cultures as others probably are. I just don't see a life in the circle where you have a chance at some autonomy and can at least speak and not spend your life tortured physically and mentally abused every second of every day as better. I definitely didn't see any pity in the Ketojan incident. That Arvaarad was going to slaughter the Saarebas because he survived without an Arvaarad for a time. Even though he was still muted, caged, and chained.

I also don't understand the idea of Saarebas embodying the Qun. They seem to be used by the Qun, feared by the Qun, and short of being butchered at birth are forced to live a torturous existence within the Qun. They are taught from day one that they are evil, and house evil, and are defilers of all things good because of their evil magic inside them.

Mages in the circle are taught that some magic is evil, but they are free to develop their talents in the controlled environment with Templars who don't hold control rods or fear even hearing the voices of their charges.

I don't see the equation here -- there is significantly more wrong with the way Saarebas are treated than circle mages. Not to say that circle mages have it all rainbows and sunshine, but Tallis' point about "Your people are so much better?" is invalid because yeah.. the cirlcle is better than being led around by a collar, having your mouth sewn shut, unable to talk, and forced to pretty much be an automaton to an Arvaarad. Constantly believing that is the best thing for them because they are evil, and house evil, and should have no freedom lest their evil become infectious. Absolute ridiculousness IMHO.

 I must admit I didn't quite understand that last line from Hawke in regards to the whole discussion, mainly because when I heard it I was running on 3 hours of sleep. I still am actually.

Perhaps if I wasn't so tired something that is incredibly clear to a non-tired person would be to me.

She's talking about how the Qunari are farmers and innocents, and that there is an alternate path that doesn't have to lead to killing. She also talks about how the Qunari aren't killers.. not just zealots who murder those that disagree with them. Yet, her whole purpose for involving Hawke was to.. murder someone whom she opposes and doesn't agree with her? Contradiction much...? -- Hence Hawke says "wait.. you were sent here to kill for the Qunari." Basically saying -- Your an assasin who is trying to convince me that the Qunari do not kill people who don't agree with them, and yet that is precisely what YOU are doing.

As Tallis says "I know.. and that makes it a Hard sell." -- In which I want to say "your damn right. no sale."

[Wulfram]

Mr.House wrote...

Qunari respect Saarabas. I doubt Templars respect mages.

"I misspoke.  They are not beasts.  Beasts learn, eventually"
Sten, on mages

[Sifr]

Which begs a question...

When Mage Hawke identified themself as such, the Arvaraad was enraged that they were speaking to a bas-Saarebas, due to the Qun teaching that any uncontrolled Mage is open to being corrupted by a demon. The Arvaraad even accuses you of being a demon trying to poison his mind.

Tallis, the Arishok, and various other Qunari have no problem speaking with Mage Hawke however... neither did Sten towards Morrigan, Wynne or the Mage Warden. Does this imply that because it is Arvaraad's role to deal with Mages, other Qunari are effectively neutral, thus can interact with Mages, because it is not their role?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 12 octobre 2011 - 07:26 .

[TEWR]

I don't know if I can agree with this. The Saarebas have an Arvaarad that pretty much controls them with a rod, a collar, and a leash. And yes my muted comment was in regards to the fact that Saarebas cannot speak, and their mouths are sewn and they are silenced by their control rods. Of course in addition to that they can also get their tongues cut out so yeah.. muted in all respects.

We actually don't know that much about what the Saarebas do within their Kerataam. They might have normal lives for all we know.

And they probably do speak, since in order to practice magic one must recite words. Wynne says this is what she made sure Aneirin did perfectly and Avernus had to recite words when he unraveled the summoning circles. There's a lot of mysteries surrounding the Qunari culture, and especially how their mages live. We only know a small piece of it. A sliver.

Also, I thought if they were practicing "forbidden magic" they would simply be killed. I must admit I am not as knowledgeable about the Qunari customs/cultures as others probably are. I just don't see a life in the circle where you have a chance at some autonomy and can at least speak and not spend your life tortured physically and mentally abused every second of every day as better. I definitely didn't see any pity in the Ketojan incident. That Arvaarad was going to slaughter the Saarebas because he survived without an Arvaarad for a time. Even though he was still muted, caged, and chained.

I'm pretty sure they lose their tongues if they're caught performing forbidden magic, since Sten said they do that and Ketojan -- who had his tongue -- was well alive.

I also think Ketojan was secretly a blood mage since his secret thing enhances blood magic abilities.

I also don't understand the idea of Saarebas embodying the Qun. They seem to be used by the Qun, feared by the Qun, and short of being butchered at birth are forced to live a torturous existence within the Qun. They are taught from day one that they are evil, and house evil, and are defilers of all things good because of their evil magic inside them.

They're not feared by the Qun. Magic is feared by the Qun, but that's not the same thing as mages being feared by the Qun.

the DAII codex entry on Saarebas tells the player that the Qunari pity and honor the Saarebas for being what they are since they are a living embodiment of the Qun.

They're not taught that they are evil nor that they house evil nor that they are defilers of all things good. That's the Chantry

Mages in the circle are taught that some magic is evil, but they are free to develop their talents in the controlled environment with Templars who don't hold control rods or fear even hearing the voices of their charges.

They're also taught that their magic is a sin and a curse and a mark upon their souls, and are abused by the people who are supposed to be protecting them.

I don't see the equation here -- there is significantly more wrong with the way Saarebas are treated than circle mages. Not to say that circle mages have it all rainbows and sunshine, but Tallis' point about "Your people are so much better?" is invalid because yeah.. the cirlcle is better than being led around by a collar, having your mouth sewn shut, unable to talk, and forced to pretty much be an automaton to an Arvaarad. Constantly believing that is the best thing for them because they are evil, and house evil, and should have no freedom lest their evil become infectious. Absolute ridiculousness IMHO.

Well, she asks is it "so much better". The Circle is -- depending on the person you ask -- a marginal improvement. But that's probably going too far into... semantics I guess? I dunno

But the question isn't just about the mages. It's about the society as a whole. Sure the mages have a slight improvement in how they live, but what about the commoners? What about the farmers who experience bandit attacks, the elves who are treated like **** by everyone, the merchants, or even those poor people who turn to crime? And so on and so forth.

The point isn't invalid because it's not talking about just the mages. It's talking about everyone. The Qunari way of life, while it has obvious flaws, is one where everyone is happy with their lives and no one does anything that harms the society as a whole. The only criminals the Qunari have are those who have abandoned the Qun. The Tal-Vashoth.

[Pr0pheze1ung]

Interesting, that you can get a kiss at the end of the final fight if you chose to flirt with her in every possible way ^^ I'm staying true to Merrill, I can't abandonen that cute little demon lover :3

[TEWR]

She's talking about how the Qunari are farmers and innocents, and that there is an alternate path that doesn't have to lead to killing. She also talks about how the Qunari aren't killers.. not just zealots who murder those that disagree with them. Yet, her whole purpose for involving Hawke was to.. murder someone whom she opposes and doesn't agree with her? Contradiction much...? -- Hence Hawke says "wait.. you were sent here to kill for the Qunari." Basically saying -- Your an assasin who is trying to convince me that the Qunari do not kill people who don't agree with them, and yet that is precisely what YOU are doing.

As Tallis says "I know.. and that makes it a Hard sell." -- In which I want to say "your damn right. no sale."

Ah. That makes a good deal of sense.

I don't see it as a contradiction. Tallis is basically going rogue for a personal mission that has nothing to do with ideologies, but of innocence and many people getting hurt.

Yes Salit (is that his name?) is a Tal-Vashoth, but that's not why she's going to kill him. She's going to kill him because of the weapon he has. Names to the Qunari -- and some Qunari-turned-Tal-Vashoth -- agents scattered throughout Thedas.

If the Chantry got their hands on that, many people would die. The Qunari would die. The Tal-Vashoth would die. Their families would die. Their friends would die.

Tallis isn't killing Salit because they disagree on ideologies. It's because what he's doing threatens many lives. She didn't tell Hawke at the time what the weapon was when Hawke says "Wait... you're going to kill someone for the Qunari".

Also, IIRC she said it was for herself.

[TobiTobsen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't see it as a contradiction. Tallis is basically going rogue for a personal mission that has nothing to do with ideologies, but of innocence and many people getting hurt.

Yes Salit (is that his name?) is a Tal-Vashoth, but that's not why she's going to kill him. She's going to kill him because of the weapon he has. Names to the Qunari -- and some Qunari-turned-Tal-Vashoth -- agents scattered throughout Thedas.

If the Chantry got their hands on that, many people would die. The Qunari would die. The Tal-Vashoth would die. Their families would die. Their friends would die.

Tallis isn't killing Salit because they disagree on ideologies. It's because what he's doing threatens many lives. She didn't tell Hawke at the time what the weapon was when Hawke says "Wait... you're going to kill someone for the Qunari".

Also, IIRC she said it was for herself.

If I understood Tallis right she will also win the favor of the other Qunari back, after she practicly deserted and disobeyed an order, if she kills Salit and protects the spies of the Qunari. So you could say that she is killing him for her own conscience and at the same time also protects her own ideology against the "barbaric" humans and their chantry. Two birds with one stone.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 octobre 2011 - 08:01 .

[TEWR]

Pr0pheze1ung wrote...

Interesting, that you can get a kiss at the end of the final fight if you chose to flirt with her in every possible way ^^ I'm staying true to Merrill, I can't abandonen that cute little demon lover :3

I was actually hoping this would happen:

• Hawke: Hey Merrill, do you want to have 3 people in a bed?
  
• Merrill: But your bed's not big enough for 3 people is it? We had to send Daemon to sleep with Sandal.
  
• Tallis: I think he means a menage a trois.
  
• Merrill: Oh? What's that? Is that some sort of big bed?
  
• Isabela: *whispers to Merrill*
  
• Merrill: Oh.... oh! Mythal'enaste!
  
• Hawke: Well, what do you think?
  
• Merrill: Okay sure, it could be fun! Just.... make sure Sandal's not in the room this time when we.... you know.
  
• Isabela: I wish I could join in.
  
• Hawke: The more the merrier!
  
• Tallis: This should be interesting.
• Hawke: That's an understatement
• Tallis: Okay, so it'll be amazingly interesting
• *cuts out to Cassandra and Varric*
  
• Cassandra: Really? The Champion took Tallis to his bed alongside his Elven lover and the Raider Isabela?
  
• Varric: Trust me, I can't make this **** up. I walked into Hawke's house to talk with him and saw them all leaving his bedroom, and Hawke had the biggest grin on his face.
  
• Cassandra: I.... see.
  
• Varric: Isabela said it was something glorious. The Qunari know some things and apparently like to nuzzle.
  
• Cassandra: Please stop.
  
• Varric: You said you wanted to know everything about the Champion.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 octobre 2011 - 08:27 .

[Sir Edric]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
*snip*

+1

Considering how interested Casandra becomes to the Champion in the ending of DA2, I think she will wanna know more about him (hehe)

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The point isn't invalid because it's not talking about just the mages. It's talking about everyone. The Qunari way of life, while it has obvious flaws, is one where everyone is happy with their lives and no one does anything that harms the society as a whole. The only criminals the Qunari have are those who have abandoned the Qun. The Tal-Vashoth.

Butchering everyone who is unhappy is an interesting way of achieving happiness.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The point isn't invalid because it's not talking about just the mages. It's talking about everyone. The Qunari way of life, while it has obvious flaws, is one where everyone is happy with their lives and no one does anything that harms the society as a whole. The only criminals the Qunari have are those who have abandoned the Qun. The Tal-Vashoth.

Butchering everyone who is unhappy is an interesting way of achieving happiness.

I don't defend how the Qunari convert people. The only time I will defend them on that issue is when it comes to willing converts. True willing converts, like Saemus and the Elves.

But I do wonder what Qunari cities and villages operate like. I think everyone has it in their heads "They're monstrous people!", but Sten's comments and Tallis' seem to point to their lives being nice.

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But I do wonder what Qunari cities and villages operate like. I think everyone has it in their heads "They're monstrous people!", but Sten's comments and Tallis' seem to point to their lives being nice.

To loyalists, it might not be too bad.  Particularly if you don't know what you're missing.

But unless people on Thedas are totally different from people on earth, I can't see it being anything except monstrous.  People don't just all turn into happy slaves of the state because of a few bits of bogus philosophy.

Otherwise, communism would have worked.

[Bigdoser]

Whenever Tallis talked about the qunari I always wanted to remind her of the viscount who lost his head to them, the poor guy can never catch a break in the game. I personally don't agree with some parts of the Qun but I agree with the Arishok when he said almost everyone in kirkwal is ****ed or insane or are in positions of power and are bloody corrupt bastards and are casuing innocent people to suffer.

edit:I wish we had a qunari party member or a tal-varshoth party member in DA2 i hear that mage qunari was going to be a party member but it got cut. Oh well we can always hope for DA3 oh and bioware you better make sure that if we are going to get a qunari party member in DA3 IT HAS TO BE FEMALE.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 12 octobre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Master Shiori]

Nice to see a Tallis thread. Here's to hoping we get to see her again in the future.

[Mr.House]

If you watch Redemption, Tallis does seem to get in trouble with the Qunari. She was demoted once from Tallis and given back that title at the start of the series. Tallis is not doing this just for the Qunari, she is doing it fort he innocents. Sure they innocents might be Qunari but why should a farmer be punished for say a group of Qunari warriors going to a village to convert Chantry people?

Also not all Qunari will kill a Bas. Hawke and the Warden proved them self to two Qunari, Sten andt he Arishok. Only reason why the Arishok fights Hawke is if Hawke refuses to let Izzy go or the Qun demands he must do so, but she still respects Hawke and considers her Basalit-an. Sten considers the Warden Kadan. I don't always agree with the Qunari, but I agree with Tallis mission and have no issue helping her. Innocents should not die because of the actions of others and a zealot religion.