296 réponses à ce sujet

[ladyofpayne]

And is there MOA discussion thread.

[Breaker35]

Ok, I'm going to make this short, I want Tallis back as a permanent companion and LI in, either, the next DLC, ( or future DLC's ), because, she was DAMNED GOOD TO LOOK AT, ( seriously, I mean it, and that is the way I made my female Hawke see Tallis in too ), also, I felt that both I, ( as a player, and my female Hawke as a character ), got to know her background, ( but not her whole background ), and, a few other reasons:

1. You could flirt with Tallis right from the start, ( but it was mentioned that she "had no friendship or rivalry options" ), so why have the option to flirt with Tallis if that were the case?

2. The prison scene, ( after you got captured by the duke, and after the duke told Hawke what she was ), now here it gets confusing. After the duke told Hawke that Tallis was an assassin, and a Qunari, Hawke said that she didn't care what Tallis was, now here's where the confusion, ( at least for me ), starts, after they were put behind bars, Tallis asked Hawke if what Hawke said was true, that Hawke didn't care what, ( or who ), she was, after that, Hawke replied that it was true, that she didn't care what or who Tallis was. .....Well, over to the main issue here, in that prison scene, Tallis seemed a bit confused about her role in the Qunari, like she told Hawke, that Tallis didn't know if she had the same "position", ( don't remember exactly what she said, so bare with me, lol ), after she returned from her quest, and here's where the confusion lies, ( for me anyways ), why mention that Tallis will only be a companion for the duration of the DLC, when ( though I could be wrong ), there was already then, a vague hint that she might come back as a permanent companion, and as a LI, ( or possible LI )?

3. At the end of Mark Of The Assassin, Tallis hinted that she and Hawke "MIGHT" meet again, but what as, a permanent companion, an enemy, and also, what about that kiss, ( because, ( and I might be wrong about this too ), but it seemed to me that when my female Hawke and Tallis kissed, it appeared that she had feelings for Hawke, ( but I'm not a 100% sure though ), and that she felt more about that kiss than she thought, which also makes me even more confused, why have Tallis say that she and Hawke might meet again, or having the possibility to flirt with Tallis, and finally, that kiss, why have Tallis ONLY for the duration of the DLC, when it seems to me that it is hinted that she will, ( or might ), be back as a permanent companion and as a ( possible ) LI?

Ps! It just seems like their "reasons why Tallis won't be a permanent companion and as a possible LI" doesn't hold up, like we, the players, are getting mixed answers, because it feels like, on one hand, that they are saying that Tallis ( might be back as a permanent companion and as a possible LI ), or will be back as a permanent companion and as a LI, and, on the other hand it feels like they are saying, that, Tallis will only be a companion for the duration of Mark Of The Assassin, and ONLY for that DLC, and it feels like, ( to me at least ), that it conflicts with everything that happens in Mark Of The Assassin, ( as I'm sure that, those who have played through the DLC knows, by trying different things, like diffrent dialogues, etc., ( even though the ending is, for the most part, the same ), because to me it feels like, that it isn't the last time we've seen, or heard of Tallis, that we, at least, have explored the possibility that Tallis "MIGHT" be back as a permanent companion and as a LI, ( because it would be interresting to see if they could somehow fit her into the main game/story as a permanent companion and as a LI, when you consider the confusion about Tallis having doubts about having the same role within the qunari/qun, ( not sure how to explain ), so, a definitive answer from those who made DA:O and DA2, ( and ofcourse Mark Of The Assassin ), would be appreciated, ( and since it's unsure as to when DA3 will come out, which was either 2012 or 2013 )?

Modifié par Breaker35, 17 octobre 2011 - 05:56 .

[Mr.House]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Thedas as in Andrastian Thedas. If the Qunari advance, if they become stronger, if they profit, it will be to every other nation's extreme detriment. It is a zero sum game. Every gain by the Qunari is a loss for everyone else. The only way to win is to kill every Qunari. That means every elf, human, dwarf, and kossith who believes in the philosophy. Wipe them out, wipe their children out, wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did.

The only way to deal with the Qunari is through iron and blood. Templars, blood mages, Orlais - they're small time compared to the evil of this civilization.

Going from feudalism to Orwellian communism is not a step in the right direction.

*sniffs* I smell a Chantry supporter.

[syllogi]

Mr.House wrote...

*sniffs* I smell a Chantry supporter.

If I get to smell like Leliana and Cassandra, I'm okay with that.  :innocent:

[jlb524]

Jilinna wrote...

I do believe if Tallis & Sten  became prominant leaders of the Qunari they could give the Qun a fresh perspective. They could help educate the Qunari on our culture, to help understand our motives and behavior, there could be potential understanding between the two factions of religions & ohh of course educate them about sugary baked goods, like cookies...mmm <3

This makes no sense to me given my understanding of Qunari. To be Qunari is to be absolutely certain that the Qun is right and that anyone not of the Qun is wrong.  There's no doubt in their mind.   I don't see this religion as adapting to outsider perspectives at all.

[Eudaemonium]

jlb524 wrote...

Jilinna wrote...

I do believe if Tallis & Sten  became prominant leaders of the Qunari they could give the Qun a fresh perspective. They could help educate the Qunari on our culture, to help understand our motives and behavior, there could be potential understanding between the two factions of religions & ohh of course educate them about sugary baked goods, like cookies...mmm <3

This makes no sense to me given my understanding of Qunari. To be Qunari is to be absolutely certain that the Qun is right and that anyone not of the Qun is wrong.  There's no doubt in their mind.   I don't see this religion as adapting to outsider perspectives at all.

In all honesty though, you could say the same about the majority of real world religions, but they've all been influenced (and influenced in turn) other religions and cultures. The Qunari might be extreme zealots a lot of the time, but cultural transfer tends to occur over time regardless. All converts, for example, will naturally bring their own outsider perspectives into Qunari society, even if they submit to the Qun. You saw this with Tallis in that she went against the Ariqun's will in order to reserve the lives of some people who weren't even part of the Qun. The Qunari will only gain more converts as they expand, and thus fresh perspectives will always be being imperfectly assimilated.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Mr.House wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Thedas as in Andrastian Thedas. If the Qunari advance, if they become stronger, if they profit, it will be to every other nation's extreme detriment. It is a zero sum game. Every gain by the Qunari is a loss for everyone else. The only way to win is to kill every Qunari. That means every elf, human, dwarf, and kossith who believes in the philosophy. Wipe them out, wipe their children out, wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did.

The only way to deal with the Qunari is through iron and blood. Templars, blood mages, Orlais - they're small time compared to the evil of this civilization.

Going from feudalism to Orwellian communism is not a step in the right direction.

*sniffs* I smell a Chantry supporter.

Not pro-Chantry. Anti-Qunari.

[Mr.House]

TeenZombie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

*sniffs* I smell a Chantry supporter.

If I get to smell like Leliana and Cassandra, I'm okay with that.  :innocent:

[jlb524]

Eudaemonium wrote...

In all honesty though, you could say the same about the majority of real world religions, but they've all been influenced (and influenced in turn) other religions and cultures. The Qunari might be extreme zealots a lot of the time, but cultural transfer tends to occur over time regardless. All converts, for example, will naturally bring their own outsider perspectives into Qunari society, even if they submit to the Qun. You saw this with Tallis in that she went against the Ariqun's will in order to reserve the lives of some people who weren't even part of the Qun. The Qunari will only gain more converts as they expand, and thus fresh perspectives will always be being imperfectly assimilated.

Yeah, I think other organized religions are bad as well (real world or in Thedas).  Though you have to admit the qunari seem more extreme in their methods than the Chantry.

I'm not saying that they couldn't change, but I think it would take a violent reformation type movement and not a handful of people saying, 'you know, non-qunari aren't so bad'.  The Qunari have already expanded by including elves, humans, etc., but from what I know it seems they are expected to submit fully to the Qun and I don't see how elven/human culture has greatly influenced Qunari beliefs.

I was under the impression that Tallis didn't go against any order b/c no one ordered her not to go after Salit.

[Sunnie]

jlb524 wrote...
Yeah, I think other organized religions are bad as well (real world or in Thedas).  Though you have to admit the qunari seem more extreme in their methods than the Chantry.

Religion throughout our own history has been used primarily as a way to control the masses. Thats pretty much the same as Thedas religions.

I'm not saying that they couldn't change, but I think it would take a violent reformation type movement and not a handful of people saying, 'you know, non-qunari aren't so bad'.  The Qunari have already expanded by including elves, humans, etc., but from what I know it seems they are expected to submit fully to the Qun and I don't see how elven/human culture has greatly influenced Qunari beliefs.

If dealing with the Arishok in Kirkwall is any indication, seeing the rathole that is Kirkwall has only strengthed his belief in the way of the Qun.

I was under the impression that Tallis didn't go against any order b/c no one ordered her not to go after Salit.

Correct, and she says almost exactly that.

[jlb524]

Sunnie22 wrote...
Religion throughout our own history has been used primarily as a way to control the masses. Thats pretty much the same as Thedas religions.

I don't disagree.   It just seems as if the Qunari try to control more than others (for example, with gender roles) and are harsher with defectors.   I don't think non-Andrastians living in Chantry lands are hunted and killled.

Both religions are imperialistic and absolutist but it seems to me that the Qun pervades every part of a Qunari's life.

Sunnie22 wrote...
If dealing with the Arishok in Kirkwall is any indication, seeing the rathole that is Kirkwall has only strengthed his belief in the way of the Qun.

Yeah, and assimilation of other cultures would be even more difficult.  When dealing with the Arishok, it seemed he always wanted Hawke to consider his and the Qun's point of view but there was no give and take.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 octobre 2011 - 05:33 .

[Sunnie]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, and assimilation of other cultures would be even more difficult.  When dealing with the Arishok, it seemed he always wanted Hawke to consider his and the Qun's point of view but there was no give and take.

They aren't called the Demands of the Qun for nothing!

[TEWR]

I don't disagree.   It just seems as if the Qunari try to control more than others (for example, with gender roles) and are harsher with defectors.   I don't think non-Andrastians living in Chantry lands are hunted and killled.

When Exalted Marches are declared they are. But also, one of the Dalish Elves in Sundermount says that Chantry priests and Templars made poorly veiled threats that basically were "Convert or die".

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When Exalted Marches are declared they are. But also, one of the Dalish Elves in Sundermount says that Chantry priests and Templars made poorly veiled threats that basically were "Convert or die".

Yet they still manage to live there for 6 years.  And Merrill and Arianni live in Kirkwall without problems despite their allegiance to pagan gods being proclaimed on their faces.

Chantry oppression is at the least considerably less thorough than Qunari.

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

Jilinna wrote...

I do believe if Tallis & Sten  became prominant leaders of the Qunari they could give the Qun a fresh perspective. They could help educate the Qunari on our culture, to help understand our motives and behavior, there could be potential understanding between the two factions of religions & ohh of course educate them about sugary baked goods, like cookies...mmm <3

This makes no sense to me given my understanding of Qunari. To be Qunari is to be absolutely certain that the Qun is right and that anyone not of the Qun is wrong.  There's no doubt in their mind.   I don't see this religion as adapting to outsider perspectives at all.

Tallis says that doubt is the path to faith or something. I don't quite recall what it was. However, I don't think the Qunari expect everyone to believe in it immediately. I think they understand that it's a gradual process for them to believe in it.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When Exalted Marches are declared they are. But also, one of the Dalish Elves in Sundermount says that Chantry priests and Templars made poorly veiled threats that basically were "Convert or die".

Yet they still manage to live there for 6 years.  And Merrill and Arianni live in Kirkwall without problems despite their allegiance to pagan gods being proclaimed on their faces.

Chantry oppression is at the least considerably less thorough than Qunari.

The threats happened in Act III.

And many elves in Kirkwall have Dalish tattoos on their faces. I'm willing to bet that the Exalted March on the Dales led to many Dalish Elves with tattoos going to live in the cities, so yea.

[Wulfram]

Which implies that they were left alone for 6 years. Can you imagine that happening in Qunari lands?

I haven't noticed any tattooed elves in Kirkwall, other than Merrill and Arianni.  Maybe some of those wierd fetch Quest elves with the Dalish Accents?

The impression I get is that the Dalish started tattooing after the Exalted March - it was a very deliberate way of marking themselves out as the people who would not submit.

Of course, there are presumably the occasional converted Dalish in human cities, but I'd expect them to be very rare - and Merrill really doesn't give the impression that she's hiding her Dalish beliefs.

Modifié par Wulfram, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:42 .

[TEWR]

yep the fetch quest elves had tattoos, though they're very light and not dark tattoos.

And Ilen says that they did in fact see many humans passing through, and if Feynriel is sent to the Dalish some Templars tortured and I think killed a da'len (child) hunter for information on him. The Templar's response?

"I don't give one wit about these knife-ears!"

Yea, they weren't left alone.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:55 .

[Wulfram]

The Templars objected to the Dalish giving sanctuary to a dangerous apostate, yes. As they would any group which did so. They weren't attacking them for being Dalish.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't disagree.   It just seems as if the Qunari try to control more than others (for example, with gender roles) and are harsher with defectors.   I don't think non-Andrastians living in Chantry lands are hunted and killled.

When Exalted Marches are declared they are. But also, one of the Dalish Elves in Sundermount says that Chantry priests and Templars made poorly veiled threats that basically were "Convert or die".

When they are, yes.  I should have said, 'regularly'.

I don't like the Chantry either, but they seem like the lesser of two evils (though, perhaps not by much)...which means I want the Chantry and Qunari to get into a huge fight and destroy each other XD

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yea, they weren't left alone.

They weren't left alone, but they weren't hauled off to 're-education' camps either.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:52 .

[Jilinna]

EDIT: Sorry ignore this post! It some how posted half way when I was still typing and I didn't finish my thought. I'll add my finished post in a bit. 

Modifié par Jilinna, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:13 .

[Wulfram]

Genocide is unnecessary. Destroy the infrastrcture of Talmassrans and the Ben Hassrath and Qunari society would collapse. Belief would still persist among the farmers and craftsmen, but little capacity to rebuild the Qunari state - their role after all is to be farmers and craftsmen, not resistance fighters or leaders.

[Jilinna]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Thedas as in Andrastian Thedas. If the Qunari advance, if they become stronger, if they profit, it will be
to every other nation's extreme detriment. It is a zero sum game. Every gain by the Qunari is a loss for everyone else. The only way to win is to kill every Qunari. That means every elf, human, dwarf, and kossith who believes in the philosophy. Wipe them out, wipe their children out, wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did.

The only way to deal with the Qunari is through iron and blood. Templars, blood mages, Orlais - they're small time compared to the evil of this civilization.

Going from feudalism to Orwellian communism is not a step in the right direction.

EDIT: This is my whole post this time, polished and everything, sorry again!

lol sounds like you sided with Petrice

I understand what your trying to say, that based on the Qun`s strict ideology & past actions, you can presumably argue if the Qun continued to spread then they would come and take over violently to establish the Qun as the dominant religon. So correct me if I am wrong you are suggesting Andrastians should strike first to secure their dominance?

But then wouldn't that make Andrastians no better than the Qunari? If you look at it from the perspective of one that follows the Qun, like Tallis, she says "Qunari don't understand why we act the way we do", wouldn't attempting to kill all Qunari justify their view that the Qun brings about the betterment of the whole while the Andrastians just bring about chaos and corruption to themselves?

I do not understand though why you would think the annilation of all people who follow the Qun, which is genocide, is entirly justifable. Tallis says "Not every Qunari is a soldier", "There are tens of thousands of farmers, artisans, craftsmen, people who have never hurt anyone, poeple whose only crime is living" & why do they deserve death as well? Based on the ideology of the Qun most Qunari who are born under the Qun have never known any other other religon or way of life outside of their own, and therefore I cannot understand the logic of killing people based on religon, who have had taken no part in the behaviour of fanatical Qunari.

& when you say "wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did." umm wouldn't that mean you would have to kill anyone that has come into contact with the Qunari or remembers their religon, therefore killing Andrastians in the process? Isn't that counter productive, you would be potenitally harming those you wanted to save.

Also last time the Qunari fought Thedas to a standstill, who is to say if all of Thedas went to war with the Qunari again they would win? Thedas is already a mess with possible problems within Orlais, and mages & templars struggling for control and freedom. Thedas is in disarray and the Qunari consider themselves one piece of a whole who work together for a common purpose, and therfore Thedas wouldn't stand a chance against them unless they started working together as well.

Modifié par Jilinna, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:34 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jilinna wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Thedas as in Andrastian Thedas. If the Qunari advance, if they become stronger, if they profit, it will be
to every other nation's extreme detriment. It is a zero sum game. Every gain by the Qunari is a loss for everyone else. The only way to win is to kill every Qunari. That means every elf, human, dwarf, and kossith who believes in the philosophy. Wipe them out, wipe their children out, wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did.

The only way to deal with the Qunari is through iron and blood. Templars, blood mages, Orlais - they're small time compared to the evil of this civilization.

Going from feudalism to Orwellian communism is not a step in the right direction.

EDIT: This is my whole post this time, polished and everything, sorry again!

lol sounds like you sided with Petrice

I understand what your trying to say, that based on the Qun`s strict ideology & past actions, you can presumably argue if the Qun continued to spread then they would come and take over violently to establish the Qun as the dominant religon. So correct me if I am wrong you are suggesting Andrastians should strike first to secure their dominance?

But then wouldn't that make Andrastians no better than the Qunari? If you look at it from the perspective of one that follows the Qun, like Tallis, she says "Qunari don't understand why we act the way we do", wouldn't attempting to kill all Qunari justify their view that the Qun brings about the betterment of the whole while the Andrastians just bring about chaos and corruption to themselves?

I do not understand though why you would think the annilation of all people who follow the Qun, which is genocide, is entirly justifable. Tallis says "Not every Qunari is a soldier", "There are tens of thousands of farmers, artisans, craftsmen, people who have never hurt anyone, poeple whose only crime is living" & why do they deserve death as well? Based on the ideology of the Qun most Qunari who are born under the Qun have never known any other other religon or way of life outside of their own, and therefore I cannot understand the logic of killing people based on religon, who have had taken no part in the behaviour of fanatical Qunari.

& when you say "wipe out anyone who evens quotes chapter and verse from their texts until no one alive remembers who they are or what they did." umm wouldn't that mean you would have to kill anyone that has come into contact with the Qunari or remembers their religon, therefore killing Andrastians in the process? Isn't that counter productive, you would be potenitally harming those you wanted to save.

Also last time the Qunari fought Thedas to a standstill, who is to say if all of Thedas went to war with the Qunari again they would win? Thedas is already a mess with possible problems within Orlais, and mages & templars struggling for control and freedom. Thedas is in disarray and the Qunari consider themselves one piece of a whole who work together for a common purpose, and therfore Thedas wouldn't stand a chance against them unless they started working together as well.

Better to die fighting than to live on one's knees. Especially with the Qunari. The fact is, the Qun is like gangrene. You've got to eliminate it before it spreads.

[The Sapien]

I'm confused. I bought this DLC thinking I'd get a new companion for the rest of the game. Does she come back later or did I get tricked by the DLC description?